Modern Vespa

I am within 120 days of new scooter purchase...I try to get new one every year. Current Burgman 400 is at 21,000 miles having been on road 9 months. My experience with rubber band drive scooters is near 300,000 miles, so know the short comings.

At 73 I no longer have to commute to work, so my riding is transportation/fun/get some place. I made the decision not to drive cars many years ago (new leased Genesis in garage, wife drives).

POINT: I find Vespa GTS300 new interesting and at around $6000 only a little overpriced---BUT now need this advice from those who ride at least 20,000 new Vespa miles a year------DO they hold up??
I haul stuff/wife is not fat so can stay within load limits
I follow makers recommendation on belt and Roller change, think I can find HF-183 oil filters at reasonable price, Shell Rotella T6 should work as oil.
Maybe can live without vast dealer network (think BMW) and learn to find great dealer for warranty. Based on previous Vespa experience, I know what carrier F & R/Windshield(FACO) I need. Enough work on my part I can probably find parts. I have been daily rider since 1955(over 1.5 million miles) so know the ins and outs of bike ownership.

Background: Last new Vespas PX200E--Ignition trouble/cross and crank keyway problems, shook then PX150E ( bought as left over US model in PX in Germany, cheap) the 150 ran smooth, no troubles only a little slower than 200--a joy to own.


Comments on new Vespa pls?

Advice?

With proper maintenance, yes. Definitely. There might be some hiccups along the way, though.

Rear tire is the achilles heel. Replace with something like a Heidenau K61 and that will last 5,000 to 7,000 miles. Less if you do a lot of miles per day, and it sounds like you do. Figure 3000 miles on a Heidenau K61 if you ride more than 250 miles a day.

Next weakness is the belt, at 7,000 - 10,000 miles.

Valves need to be checked or adjusted every 6,000 or 12,000 miles, depending on who you ask.

Roller life can be improved with Dr. Pulley sliders, which (apparently) don't wear out. The variator itself is somewhat of a consumable, but isn't especially expensive and should last at least 10,000 miles with non-WFO use. Even when it wears, though, it merely lowers top speed a bit, so it's not super critical.

Clutch mechanism will start making noise at 18,000 miles due to a couple of pins in the mechanism that wear out. The clutch can be serviced or the whole unit replaced, but it's definitely got a known lifespan. Might be improved in later models.

The biggest unknown is the exhaust. The GTS is positively notorious for blowing the exhaust gasket on long rides on hot days. There are various ways to alleviate that (aftermarket exhausts, etcetera) but there's no perfect solution, except to get good at replacing exhaust gaskets on the side of the road. I have personally broken almost every exhaust for the GTS known to man (still need to try an Akropovic, though) and I can say with some authority that the GTS eats exhausts for lunch.

I'd take my GTS on most any trip that I'd take my BMW airhead. Even 2-up.

Have been changing belts at the 10,000 to 12,000 mile mark. First thing I would do is remove the stock exhaust and replace it with a LeoVince. Had 30k on my last LV when I hit a deer and totaled the scooter. Change the oil about every 3,000 miles and have taken it to 5,000 miles when on a trip. I'm still looking for that 8,000 mile plus rear tire. Had the valves on the '06 GTS adjusted 3 times in 61,000 miles. The third time (and maybe the second, can't remember), they were perfect, no adjustment needed.

With the way we have the '07 GTS set up (just like the '06), we can carry the same amount of gear, for 2-up trips that our BMW does.

I do think one of the main plusses for me is my dealer in Seattle (Vespa Seattle/Big Peoples Scooters). They have always been a real help and answer all my crazy questions.

You have put some miles on your Burgman......21k in 9 months...KOOL!
I was going for at least a 100k, on the '06 GTS when I had the accident. I will see that 100,000 mark on the '07 GTS.

I know my comments aren't on the new Vespas but at least it'll give you an idea. I think mine have always been a real work horse, just stay on top of the maintenance, and fine a good dealer, as you already know.

Below is my '06, the '07 is the same color and set up exactly the same.

I have a few customers that ride maybe half as much as you do, and their bikes are holding up well. It'd sure be a great learning experience to have a customer with your experience putting a new GTS to that kind of test!

Why does the 'miles per day' make a difference? Surely 5,000 miles is 5,000 miles whether you do it in six months or six years.


250 miles a day is a new tire every two weeks!

Long mileage days tend to be a little harder on tires because of the sustained high heat. Heat really makes tires wear faster. If you keep your tires hot all day riding, they won't go as many miles as shorter trips where your tires don't heat up as much. That's my experience with motorcycle tires anyway. I expect it's that same for scooters.

-Craig

In its first two years, my 07 GTS got about 22K miles total. Then I moved from SoCal to Utah, with cancer/surgeries and cold winters limiting my riding, so I could only add another 18K during the next four years.

During those 40K, I had the following issues and major replacements:

Leaking oil seal on driven pulley shaft at 10K miles. Kept me riding.
Leaking water pump hose at 26K. Kept me riding.
Steering bearings replaced at 33K.
Smoldering HT lead caused engine to die. Causing the issue was my fault.
Electrical issue with vital fuse blowing at 38K, killed engine. Fixed with a work-around and not returned.
Fuel vapor/smell after longer rides, replacing evap canister solved issue.

That's it. Except for the oil seal leak (warranty), I fixed everything and did all maintenance myself.
Rear tires lasted between 4500 and 7000 miles, depending on model more than on riding. Oil changes between 3 and 6k. Belts around 9-10K. Valve lash adjusted at 12K and checked again at 34K (no adjustment necessary).

Longest ride of almost 4000 miles, solo, from 34K to 38K. Had two issues (above mentioned smoldering HT lead and fuse issue) and endless fun.

If this GTS dies before me, I want another one.

Thanks for replies------Over the years most of my miles have been on Motorcycles, but since 1968 or so scooter on side=dry feet.

I am aware of the exhaust "packing" deal of recent new scooters I bought-Helix/ReFlex/SilverWing/Burgman 400, forgot on TMAX---all have it---really poor design when muffler has to be removed to remove rear wheel---guess designers don't ride or work in shop. Gaskets can be overpriced....but I have heard there is bronze insert that can be used/purchased. Only had Helix gasket "burn out" on trip, others at tire change time. Always carry a spare.

Leo Vince=tried that once. Nicely made, no performance gain, except in your head with all the noise. Rear wheel removal easier.

Rear Tires----Heidenau used them when the DDR still existed on my MZ's---last ones in DDR time were pretty good. So might try again here. I use "Ride On" as balancing aide and sealant---do own tire work and usually keep a couple on hand.

Other problems maybe more than Japanese, but might be able to live with them. Weakest link is the rubber band drive system period---I think 125 or weak 250 is about limit for that drive system----buying belts/roller seems to be part of the extreme cost of modern scooter ownership----20,000 miles Suzuki just paid for new rollers/front pulley/rear clutch outer bearing--I paid for belt. POINT: everything just flat wore out! Would you buy a car where main drive line components wore out every 10-20,000 miles? Chain OEM on my GS500E went 44,000 miles with only a lot of oil slopped on it. And then cheap replacement sprockets and chain cost under $100 from Dennis Kirk and were still working @64,000 when bike was traded at 15 months on the road.---this stuff(scooter belts/rollers,etc) should last 50,000 or more miles-----Experience with Vespa Ciao when living in Italy, Daelim 125 (great trouble free scooter) while living in Korea==no drive line trouble with these low power jobs.

Do not like Vespa--"drop the Engine" to adjust valves but screw and nut sure better than shims for do at home.

Be Nice if Vespa would go back to cheap interchange able wheels and SPARE!!---Saturday plan ride to Marietta GA Vespa shop to look---no dealer Chattanooga.

I don't ride the distances you do, but my experience with my GT (2006 with 45,700 miles on it today) may help you in your decision. I rode mine 10,000 miles in 2010, 15,000 in 2011 and 10,000 so far this year. I have ridden my new one (2005 with 21,500 miles on it now) 4000 miles this year too.

You are correct, the belt drive system is probably the weak link on the Vespa line. The exhaust gasket/bearing and rear tire wear are slightly behind.

I was changing drive belts at 7-8000 miles until I decided to push one to 12,000. It held up fine but performance suffered, top speed down from 75 mph to 70 mph (gps). But I had a Piaggio belt shred on a ride recently after only 2000 miles. Because I thought it might be a variator or clutch issue, I put an old belt with only 5000 miles on it (I changed early as a long ride was planned) and that one now has an additional 4000 miles on it. So I am certain it was a bad belt.

I have had four exhaust gaskets blow during rides. One of these resulted in a melted rear brake line. So 10,000 miles ago I changed to a Leo Vince. It has held up fine but I prefer the quiet of the original exhaust and may put it back on. I have two spare gaskets to carry around once the change is made.

As for rear tire, I have gotten around 5000 to 7000 miles on each Michelin I have used. These have been Pilot City and an Pilot Sport. The last change came when I didn't have a tire so I bought one from my mechanic, Boris. It was a Bridgestone Hoop. I now have 9000 miles on that one and it is not even close to the wear bars yet. It's performance has been equal to the others.

The only major issue I have had was the camshaft and accompanying rocker arm needed replacing this year, at 40,000 miles, due to unusual wear. The wear was causing a shrieking noise that required attention. It may have been caused by not ever adjusting the valves or possibly using a high grade synthetic car oil (Royal Purple) for the first few oil changes. Regardless, it was all fixed by Boris at a reasonable cost.

I think you will enjoy the Vespa GTS. The design and engineering of these are great. I have ridden several Maxi Scooters and Motorcycles to upgrade to a more typical cruising machine, but every time I get back on one of my GT's, they are so good that I don't feel a need to change. I find mine to be great touring bikes, smooth, stable and quiet at 70+ mph for hours on end.

The GTS has the additional 5 to 10 mph that I would like so they may be perfect. I am waiting for the new new 330 cc engine for my next purchase.

I envy your ability to get a new one annually, but can the 'previous' model not be rebuilt for cheaper over the course of that year? That way you can leapfrog them, and still have a spare. Even a total shop rebuild shouldn't cost as much as a new one.

Of course, if you just WANT to, then...awesome!

Correct. This is a lesson learned many times over on Cannonball. Once the tires reach full-hot, they shed rubber at an accelerated rate. If your rides are short, the tire heats up, sheds a little, and then you're to your destination. If your rides are long, the tires heat up and then stay hot while shedding rubber the whole time.

So no, all miles are definitely not created equal as far as tires are concerned.

New enough. Your 2007 model isn't different enough from the 2012 model to make very much of a difference.

Your clutch probably needs some service. It's not broken, per se, but I'd guess that the pins inside are worn and probably making a little bit of noise.

You do not have to do much to get access to the valves - smaller hands can do it with no change in engine attitude, and the engine only has to be rotated a bit (remove rear shock connections) for those with big mitts like me.

You are correct my engine was never moved/dropped to have the valves adjusted.

Thanks for the very informative post. I'm beginning to think that it wasn't so good an idea for me to have my scooter as my sole motorized transport. *sigh*

My son has had a scooter as his only transport for over a year - Sports City 250. Even now he rarely drives a car. Several of the folks in our local scooter club have no cars and haven't for as long as I've known them (6+ years). There are several folks on this list that don't own cars. Do you put 20,000+ miles on your scooter annually? Folks I know who put 30,000-40,000 miles on a car per year have more maintenance issues than folks who average 10-15,000 per year.

That makes complete sense, but wasn't something I'd really considered until now.

That said, I did manage to completely destroy a soft rear tyre on my Hornet a few years back. 100 mile round trip on a very hot day, two up with full throttle 100+ mph sections, and when I got back the rubber was just rolling off the tyre. Ooops.

I noted several people talked of rear tire life/problems. I see stock tires are P rated 93mph----I know scooter won't go that fast BUT speed rating also has something to do with the tires ability ro get rid of or tolerate heat.

Is there a common S rated tire available for street use? I would tend to go to Heidenau for replacement tires for new Vespa....if I buy one.

I can remember from 2 stroke Vespa days--rear tire getting hot, but no problems.

Ive put almost 85,000 km on my GTS in 2.5 years, so yeah... I'd say they hold up.

As Jess said, there will be hiccups. But the engine and overall construction are so overdone as to be virtually bullet proof.

If it hasn't been mentioned, the plug cap and spark-to-coil wire is another achilles heel that needs close attention.

The Schwalbe Racemans are S-rated, I believe. That said, both Patrick and I ran them on the street (after using them for a scooter landspeed event) and neither of us were very impressed with them. They were simultaenously short-lived and not very sticky. Bad combination.

My favorite tire so far is the dual-compound Michelin Power Pure. They are fabulous in the twisties, noticeably better than any tire I've ever had on the rear of a Vespa. I can't tell you how long they last, though, as I got a puncture in my first one and haven't revisited it yet.

Thanks for all replies----looking on Saturday.

Tires---ride a lot and there can be problems---I rode and like Honda Helix, 4 new 175,000 miles total---one tread fly off in Japan, big curve, did not go down....bike has J rated tires--62mph dangerous on scooter that would go 70 plus down hill tailwind, Bridgestone, Had Honda Reflex, 3 or 4 rear tire problems. Bridgestone replaced. A tip on scooter tire---which many shops do not or cannot balance---I use "Ride On" as sealant and balancing medium. Good shops have it----works great, does not eat rims. Seals leaks and small holes.

Michelin dual compound----would give try on Vespa have rear 13" on my current Burgman,wears well (10,000 estimate) tread area wears round not square. Nice feeling. I carry pump/plugs as get home deal---normally won't ride on plugged tire.

Think I can handle the rubber band drive stuff---it is just stuff doesn't have long service life----think my total "rubber band" miles are now near 300,000 since 1990---with Vespa would stick to makers recommendation and OEM belts, maybe going a little longer on change intervals---Suzuki says 14,500 miles on Burgman 400---just went 20,000---other parts worn out, warranty, I paid for new belt.