Modern Vespa

That much and no flower holder?

Any company that keeps me behind the velvet rope by offering an overpriced, uber-limited edition of a product (I might otherwsie consider), in a transparent attempt to create hype and buzz... loses my interest in the product.

While it goes without saying that Piagio is not going after the low end of the market with this, or any, Vespa... making most of your target audience feel like destitute trailer trash by putting your product both physically and financially out of their reach - even temporarily - is probably not the way you want to play it.

Just my 2 shekels.

+1 You've got that right, brother.

I probably wouldn't buy one even if it was affordable and available but yeah, not sure what Piaggio is trying to accomplish with this strategy. Wah wah wah.

I second that.

I realize Vespa will never try to expand their brand reach by venturing into the non-"luxury" market...but it wouldn't be a bad idea in this still-muted global economy.

I don't remember the precise details, but a while back when the PS2 gaming console was the 'new hotness', and of course in limited supply (because Sony only released a small number for sale), one gaming website tried to generate a lot of buzz. How? by DESTROYING a PS2, even though many die hard folks went without, or waited in line for days.

I'm not saying Vespa is a bad company of course, I love their products, but to say "hey, we made a limited run, $10k vespa, just because..." seems like the wrong move.

Of course, it's surely aimed at a few markets that aren't North America.

I don't know... It seems to me that this is a way of test marketing a new design. Rather than replace the 150 with this and have people hate it, they get to see what the response is without dumping their established models. Yeah, it sucks when it's something we want. But if the looks were a flop, we wouldn't care and people would be doubling down on their love for the model it replaced.

If it's a hit (and it seems to be), we'll eventually see a cheaper version in higher quanities. Or some of its features will find their way into the lower models.

I can't imagine a car company coming out with a new model that was a radical styling departure and included all the high-tech features and options at the same price point as its budget models.

To quote the Immortal Bard:
" it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Everything is speculation at this point, just like the BMW.

In NSM, we are talking about the re-release of the PX200 with a 4 stroke twist-and-go.

For an estimated 2900 to 3500 Pounds Sterling it will give you that retro styling with GT200 performance if the 19HP engine is accurate.

What really sucks is I'm ready to buy a new scoot NOW. Alas none catch my eye atm. With all the 946 and the PX200 auto I wolud buy 1 of them, but it seems that in North America we gotta wait a few years for release.

and THAT is the machine that could expand the reach of Vespa as a brand.

Still not cheap per se, but something of a sweet spot of modest price point for really decent performance.

Everyone seems to be assuming that the price will be set much higher than the cost to produce the thing, and that Vespa will just be turning a huge profit on each one.

I would not be so sure. If it's made in very small numbers, say just a few hundred a year, it could be many times more expensive to manufacture than an ordinary Vespa. Obviously, most of the components are not used on anything else.

Simple economy of scale would suggest that it may be enormously expensive to make those parts initially. Once the tooling is done, every additional copy gets cheaper, because you're ammortizing the tolling costs over more units. But if you only make a few, the tooling costs still hav eto be covered.

Same thing happens with all sorts of manufactured products. Low prodcution run items are brutally expensive. A senior Honda engineeer once told me that Honda lost a lot of money on every single S2000 sold, and there are a heck of a lot more S2000s out there than any limited production Vespa.

If it turns out that they sell enough of these, then maybe they'll think about designing a profitable production strategy for a more mainstream model.

That's my speculation anyway.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Just like Lexus with the LF-A, which is already way too expensive for what it is, and Lexus will still lose money on every one of them.
Just like Porsche did on the Carrera GT.
And... Buggati with the Veyron.

This scooter is actually needed for Vespa to show a possible new design and technology that will be incorporated in future mass production models.

Bingo!

However, for each of us it all boils down to whether we have the resources and the "must have it" desire to be part of the marketing experiment. Some do... a lot more don't.

If the release is limited to 1000 units worldwide (just pulling that number out of the air, since that's approximately how many GT60s they produced) and IF they don't use the tooling for a follow-on model (i.e. the GTV derived from the same parts as the GT60) then Piaggio will almost certainly lose money at nearly any price you can imagine them setting for the 946. Tooling a production line is expensive, and tooling for stamped-steel parts is really expensive. If this body doesn't get re-used, Piaggio will not be able to amortize the cost across enough units to make the exercise worthwhile.

So if it's a limited edition with no follow-on, it will almost certainly be at Piaggio's expense.

At first I didn't like it, but actually it's very retro and I like it a lot. But first someone is going to have to tell me how I will carry cargo and replace the functionality of the pet carrier (which is sort of a secondary issue because "classic" Vespas didn't have them.)

To hell with test marketing this way. If you want to test market something, show it to a sample group of consumers in a closed room behind curtains. Movies do this before the final cut, and thousands of other companies across many sectors do "market research."

Take a page from Ferrari, another Italian, high-end, vehicle manufacturer who produces vehicles in limited production runs.

They don't end the 355-series of cars by introducing the special edition of the next generation! They say, beginning in X year, we will release our new mid-engine V8 model - the 360 Modena. After a couple years of sales, they roll out the performance Challenge Stradale, limited production, huge demand, yadda yadda yadda, and they all sell like hot cakes.

Then, when it's time for the 360 to be shelved, they do it again with the 430 coupe, then the 430 Spider. Next comes the ultra-high performance 430 Scuderia, and it's open-top sibling, the 16M.

Next! How about V12s? The 599 GTB replaced the wildly successful (and gorgeously styled) 550/575 "Maranello" line of cars. Ferrari followed it with a Fiorano performance (option) package, and finally, the 599 GTO - rare as hens teeth, looks that could kill, and performance above all others.

The same applies to their supercars... Enzo --> FXX --> FXX Evoluzione

The point being is, when you're trying to sell exclusivity, you do it by making those who already have, want more. We all know the phrase, "If you build it, they will come."

If Vespa needs to amortize the costs of their tooling across several production years of building scooters, they should have rolled this out as the successor to the LX, and priced it accordingly with comparable technology (2V, fuel-injected, 10/11" tires). Then after a year or two, roll out the 3V motor, and finally the "King of the Hill" - a factory-built small framed scooter (946 frame), aluminum body parts, 12" tires, and a hotrod motor - limited production numbers, the whole lot. Then-current "946" owners would probably line up in droves for a taste of the good stuff, whereas the way they have it set up now, I don't think the sales will be as strong.

Actually, a special edition such as this really doesn't interest me much. If it later turns into a regular production bike with interesting features - maybe. For now, I am far more interested in the LX/S 3V showing up in the US.

Agreed!

Piaggio would have to carry the model on past the initial production of 1000 or their investors would kill them. They are after all not Ferrari. Most likely they will rebadge it under a different name much like the GTV etc...

That's a valid model, but it's certainly not the only valid model. When the focus is on aesthetics (as it mostly is with the 946) there's a lot to be said for putting the limited edition at the lead of production, rather than the end. Put another way -- and speaking strictly to aesthetic draw -- a limited edition of a style that's been around for years is much less interesting than a limited edition of something new that's never been seen before.

If they were selling (say) a limited-edition souped-up GTS that produced 30HP, then Ferrari's model would be more appropriate. As it is, though, I can't say I disagree with Piaggio's approach.

Agree completely, and I don't see Piaggio subsidizing a limited edition without a re-purposing of the tooling required to build it at some point afterwards. That hasn't been their M-O in the past.

I predict the reverse of the GT-60 where they essentially used existing tooling to create a special edition, this I predict will be a special edition with production use of that same tooling afterwards.

It'll be interesting how this plays out.

Just thinkin out loud here, isn't this what makes Vespa Vespa? Up market, luxury, elite?

Or maybe a better questions is "What makes Vespa Vespa?"

Not originally anyway.
For the masses.

This is a PRECISION take on the 946

SDG

Yep, I thought about putting a past/present qualifyer in there, but then a popup said there were singles in my area waiting to meet me.

That made me laugh!

(Discuss scooters on the internet with other scooter nerds, or meet some of the area's "most beautiful, alluring and un-attached singles" on the....internet? Yeah, no brainer )

I missed the price...

Does what the members of MV think matter to Piaggio? They have a target market in mind, and if it isn't us, but is large enough to sell whatever they produce in a reasonable time frame, then they will have been "successful".. It's their objectives that count, not necessarily ours.

How dare they build a scooter out of someones reach. Don't like the direction or marketing? As Al implied, it just may not have been built for you.
Way out of my reach, but still excited by what may come down the pike.

I unsecond it. Remember that in its main markets (incl Italy), Vespas aren't at such a premium price as they are over with you guys.

In the UK, for example, there's a small price premium for a GTS (imho, commensurate with the metal body vs the plastic of its competitors) but they're pretty common rides. Old ETs are hugely popular as cheap commuter scoots.

As for the 946.....it IS ridiculously expensive. Ludicrously, ridiculously, unbelievably expensive. But it's obviously NOT meant as an everyday thing. I'm not trying to justify it for a second. I've got no interest in defending Vespa. I'm just pointing out that, to me, the 946 is NOT really part of the real Vespa range. It's like a buyable prototype, if you see what I mean. To compare it to the rest of the range is missing the point.

Sooo.... it is the Apple Newton of the scooter world?

Indeed, and the same can be said of any premium product....including the new BMW scooters.

I'm not implying that the 946 and original Corvette are similar stories, but when Chevy introduced the 1953 Corvette, it was 50% higher in price than any other Chevy, could only be bought with a 6 cyl engine and one of the world's worst, from a performance standpoint, automatic transmissions - "PowerGlide" (just slightly better than Buick's horrible "Dynaflow"). All 300 units sold quickly, and the 1954 model reacched some 3,700 or so units.

Sports car enthusiasts and purists derided the new entrant, especially for it's power train, which made it totlly unacceptable for the race circuit. For the same price, one could get an Autsin Healey 100-4, a "truly proper sports car". I remember it well, as my family was Brit roadster fanatics.

The error these critics was that Corvette was actually estblishing a new category of car,which was "complete" when the 265 cu in V8, manual transmission Corvette hit the streets in 1955. The Corvette never "replaced" the trsditional open cockpit sports roadster, but established a new breed in itself.

You mean 1955. The 265 V8 was introduced in 1955 but only 700 1955 Corvettes were made that year with only 674 sold. Very rare. There is one about 20 miles from me.

Yes, thanks. Still trying to get my fingers adjusted to my new ASUS Tablet

I had a chance to buy a 1955 Corvette in cherry condition in 1961 at a steal of a price, but the "purist" in me led me to buy a 1959 Triumph TR-3A instead. Absolutely no regrets. Thus began 31 years of Brit roadster ownership.

Yeah, I restored Triumphs for a number of years. TR3s, 4As, TR250s, 6s and 7s.

This is a 1968 TR 250 I won best in show at the VTR nationals two times.
They were called TR5s in England.

Simply gorgeous.

I'm making a note here: Huge success!

It's hard to overstate my satisfaction.

Ford assembled its best designers and engineers to produce a small block, overhead valve V8 to counter Chevrolet.

God, or aliens provided the small block Chevy V8 for the world to enjoy.