Modern Vespa : The "Whinging about the 946 price" thread

The "Whinging about the 946 price" thread

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Aviator47

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Aviator47

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UTC quote

Hell, I don't care if someone is promoting their opinion and rejecting mine, however subjective the basis. I'm a big boy and have had shots taken at me many times.

However,

Quote:

"it gives many of us reason to point and snicker at those who are so eager to spend money just to tell everyone that they can spend more money than the other guy"

amongst other comments by that same author, especially in the context involved, borders on a personal attack towards MVers who have purchased a 946. Even though I don't really cotton to blanket attacks toward cagers or Harley riders, who are not part of the "Vespa family", this is an attack on actual "family members" (SGD, vyatka, Alisalann and others), and, IMHSO ("S" for Sicilian) is truly egregious.

Can we now return to fun tongue in cheek whinging?

L.A.zybones

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UTC quote

left out.

Now why didn't Piaggio just mass produce it and sell it for half the price? They would sell 10 times as many units for sure and would make a hefty more profit. And I might add would let a lot more Vespaheads like ourselves to enjoy one.

SDG wrote:

We have sold a boatload of 946 in the past 45 days.

So how many times more would you say you would sell if the price was $5k-$6k?

8)

DRWeside

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UTC quote

Aviator47 wrote:

Hell, I don't care if someone is promoting their opinion and rejecting mine, however subjective the basis. I'm a big boy and have had shots taken at me many times.

However,

Quote:

"it gives many of us reason to point and snicker at those who are so eager to spend money just to tell everyone that they can spend more money than the other guy"

It's a good thing that those NSM guys haven't flooded this thread. Laughing emoticon

rkcoker UTC details Addicted Piaggio BV350 Joined: UTC Posts: 950 Location: Mesquite, TX
rkcoker Addicted Piaggio BV350 Joined: UTC Posts: 950 Location: Mesquite, TX	UTC quote No opinion, just upping my posting count. Now back to the ladle war already in progress.

Petrolhead Tom

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UTC quote

neotrotsky, You seem quite the car man. Why can't the 946 nog be like the M3 CSL? When the CSL came out the criticasters all said it was way to expensive for what it was. The power was way to low for the price and the equipment it came with was just plain stupid.

After the first test drives and in the years after that everyone became to recognize that the CSL was the best M3 ever produced and maybe even the best BMW ever to hit te streets. Why can't the 946 be Vespa's M3 CSL?

AlexBv200

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AlexBv200

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UTC quote

Petrolhead Tom wrote:

@Neotrotsky, You seem quite the car man. Why can't the 946 nog be like the M3 CSL? When the CSL came out the criticasters all said it was way to expensive for what it was. The power was way to low for the price and the equipment it came with was just plain stupid.

After the first test drives and in the years after that everyone became to recognize that the CSL was the best M3 ever produced and maybe even the best BMW ever to hit te streets. Why can't the 946 be Vespa's M3 CSL?

I see what you did there and I like it... problem is, the CSL was a lighter version of the M3.
The 946 is heavy.
Also, the 946 is a completely different scooter than any other Vespa. Different chassis, different suspension layout, and some technologies for this bike only.
Guys.. it's simple. Vespa NEEDED the 946.. why?
because it makes people talk and aware of the brand.
The 946 will help Vespa sell its other scooters.. plain and simple.
Not every one can afford a $10k scooter, but many more can afford a scooter half it's price or less.
It brings people in the store and they can see what is available as well within the brand.

Positive

Petrolhead Tom UTC details Hooked Vespa LX 50 4T Joined: UTC Posts: 228 Location: Holland
Petrolhead Tom Hooked Vespa LX 50 4T Joined: UTC Posts: 228 Location: Holland	UTC quote It is. Good explanation. 8)

Alisalann UTC details Enthusiast GTS300ss Joined: UTC Posts: 90 Location: U.K
Alisalann Enthusiast GTS300ss Joined: UTC Posts: 90 Location: U.K	UTC quote Neotrotsky I am not in the least offended by your comments/opinions/views on the 946 as I said earlier I don`t care each to their own.

Bob Cowley

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UTC quote

Petrolhead Tom wrote:

It is a Vespa at it's absolute best.

Agreed, and I hope they sell a lot of them, but I also hope they don't go the way of VW and BMW over the years and eventually create a high end-only line of vehicles called Vespas. The simple, inexpensive Vespas have gone the way of the simple, inexpensive cars, but the very expensive ones seem to be easy to find.

Perhaps Vespa wants to go the way of, for example, Rolex and produce high-end only products. Like Rolex it will leave the rest of us out in the cold. Yes, I know that Rolex also makes Tudors and Piaggio also make other lines, but to make their flagship line too expensive for the average person is a marketing decision they would have to live with.

Perhaps I'm lucky to own an ordinary-priced Vespa at this point in history.

Cheers,
Bob

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UTC quote

Re: left out.

L.A.zybones wrote:

SDG wrote:

We have sold a boatload of 946 in the past 45 days.

So how many times more would you say you would sell if the price was $5k-$6k?

8)

Probably none, since Piaggio probably can't make a viable 946 for that price.

jess UTC details Petty Tyrant 0:7 and counting Joined: UTC Posts: 39141 Location: Bay Area, California
jess Petty Tyrant 0:7 and counting Joined: UTC Posts: 39141 Location: Bay Area, California	UTC quote Re: left out. rgconner wrote: Probably none, since Piaggio probably can't make a viable 946 for that price. Nah. They'd lose money on each one, but make it up on volume. [rimshot]

GBaby UTC details Molto Verboso Modern Primavera (not pictured); Moto Guzzi V-85 TT Joined: UTC Posts: 1800 Location: Los Angeles, CA
GBaby Molto Verboso Modern Primavera (not pictured); Moto Guzzi V-85 TT Joined: UTC Posts: 1800 Location: Los Angeles, CA	UTC quote In a world with 7 billion people that gives only 4.5 billion of those people access to a toilet or latrine, is there really much of a difference between a $3000.00 scooter, a $5,000.00 scooter, and a $10,000.00 scooter? We are all elitists, depending on the backdrop. Positive

jess UTC details Petty Tyrant 0:7 and counting Joined: UTC Posts: 39141 Location: Bay Area, California
jess Petty Tyrant 0:7 and counting Joined: UTC Posts: 39141 Location: Bay Area, California	UTC quote GBaby wrote: In a world with 7 billion people that gives only 4.5 billion of those people access to a toilet or latrine, is there really much of a difference between a $3000.00 scooter, a $5,000.00 scooter, and a $10,000.00 scooter? We are all elitists, depending on the backdrop. True, that.

mpfrank

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UTC quote

Re: left out.

jess wrote:

rgconner wrote:

Probably none, since Piaggio probably can't make a viable 946 for that price.

Nah. They'd lose money on each one, but make it up on volume.

[rimshot]

My business loses $200 a day. How do I survive?

Simple. I am closed on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. On the $600 per week that that saves me I do OK.

ba dump bump!

Kinda reminds me of the advertising slogan, "What will you do with all the money you save?"

jess

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jess

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UTC quote

Re: left out.

mpfrank wrote:

Kinda reminds me of the advertising slogan, "What will you do with all the money you save?"

That reminds me of the Missing Dollar Riddle:

Quote:

Three guests check into a hotel room. The clerk says the bill is $30, so each guest pays $10. Later the clerk realizes the bill should only be $25. To rectify this, he gives the bellhop $5 to return to the guests. On the way to the room, the bellhop realizes that he cannot divide the money equally. As the guests didn't know the total of the revised bill, the bellhop decides to just give each guest $1 and keep $2 for himself. Each guest got $1 back: so now each guest only paid $9; bringing the total paid to $27. The bellhop has $2. And $27 + $2 = $29 so, if the guests originally handed over $30, what happened to the remaining $1?

Dooglas

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UTC quote

L.A.zybones wrote:

Isn't that pretty much what the Primavera will be? No, it won't be identical to the 946, but it will be what you get when you configure a 150cc scooter for mass production. And, yes, I imagine they will sell 10 times (or actually several times 10) as many units.

Peckish Cyclist UTC details Enthusiast 2013 LX 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 54 Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Peckish Cyclist Enthusiast 2013 LX 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 54 Location: San Francisco Bay Area	UTC quote That reminds me of the Missing Dollar Riddle Love this analogy, Jess! Great example of informal fallacy.

OP znomit UTC details Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom
OP znomit Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom	UTC quote 8 pages. Woohoo! Imagine if all this crap was in the real 946 threads.

crazyinnyc

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UTC quote

fo realz

fleece wrote:

jess wrote:

Let's take this one by one.

neotrotsky wrote:

Different engine designs (including twin cylinders in some options)

This is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage without quantifying which factors the buyer finds most important. The two engines are just different. And as each buyer will be looking for different factors (performance vs economy vs reliability, for instance) this one is a wash. It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

neotrotsky wrote:

Plastic body panels

Again, this is subjective based on what the buyer most values. Metal is classic, but plastic body panels are easier to replace than a dented monocoque. It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

neotrotsky wrote:

Vintage or Modern Asian designs

This is, again, a difference, and not an objective advantage or disadvantage. It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

neotrotsky wrote:

Lighter weight

Which model? I dare say that on the whole, Kymco scooters aren't much heavier or lighter than their comparable Vespa models.

neotrotsky wrote:

More storage options

Again, without specifying a specific couple of models, this is a meaningless statement.

neotrotsky wrote:

Many are based on personal preference, but they are dramatically different than the 946 and offer different things.

I believe you've missed the point. Mike asked if there were any advantages of the 946 over the Prima. The answer is at once both a resounding "No" -- they're very much mechanically alike -- and simultaneously "Yes" -- the 946 is a radical styling departure from the Prima. One is an objective analysis, and the other is a subjective analysis. Is one objectively better than the other? No. Is one subjectively better than the other? Obviously. Which one, of course, is an exercise for each individual to assess for themselves, and to make a cost/value analysis based on their own opinions.

Not your opinion, not my opinion, but their own opinion. At the core of the "946 is too expensive" meme is the notion that your own opinion on subjective points (and the underlying cost/value analysis) should apply to everyone else. That's not just arrogant, it's also asinine. You're free to make that assessment for yourself. Trying to convince anyone else that your subjective opinion is the One True Correct opinion is proselytizing, plain and simple.

(And I happen to think that proselytizing is a heinous act).

i've missed this

I was starting to get bored. At least I know one thing that wasn't somebody's new year resolution...

⬆️ About 2 months elapsed ⬇️

OP znomit UTC details Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom
OP znomit Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom	UTC quote 10k and I have to buy the matching helmet bag

vyatka UTC details Molto Verboso '61 GS150Cushman '63 GS160, '74 Primavera, '77 Rally 200,'80 P200E '05 PX150,'13 946,'64 Vyatka VP150,'77 Vyatka-Elektron,'07 GTS250, '63Tula200M Joined: UTC Posts: 1127
vyatka Molto Verboso '61 GS150Cushman '63 GS160, '74 Primavera, '77 Rally 200,'80 P200E '05 PX150,'13 946,'64 Vyatka VP150,'77 Vyatka-Elektron,'07 GTS250, '63Tula200M Joined: UTC Posts: 1127	UTC quote I haven't seen whinging about this gadget in the internet. http://youtu.be/_ld5nouYGrA It definitely deserves whingers' attention: no 4G, no FM, looks like no Flash, no earphones included. $9600. ⚠️ Last edited by vyatka on UTC; edited 1 time

kdude

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UTC quote

This is a very funny thread .... keep it up guys this is good...

anyone who bought the new 946 has got good taste and loves being different ..

personally i really like this scoot.

I had the same crap when i rode up with my new bently convertible ...

the only people who freaked were the one's that couldn't understand why ( my mom and poor uncle ) or those who couldn't afford it ...

live and let live ..

Positive

⬆️ About 2 months elapsed ⬇️

OP znomit UTC details Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom
OP znomit Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom	UTC quote Might be time to bump this again

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Treppenwitz wrote:

Any company that keeps me behind the velvet rope by offering an overpriced, uber-limited edition of a product (I might otherwsie consider), in a transparent attempt to create hype and buzz... loses my interest in the product.

While it goes without saying that Piagio is not going after the low end of the market with this, or any, Vespa... making most of your target audience feel like destitute trailer trash by putting your product both physically and financially out of their reach - even temporarily - is probably not the way you want to play it.

Just my 2 shekels.

Style is always more costly than function...sad; I am with you though...for that price, I'd like to see a touch nav screen, espresso warmer...and why not an espresso maker on board?!?

DRWeside

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Javakid wrote:

Treppenwitz wrote:

Style is always more costly than function...sad; I am with you though...for that price, I'd like to see a touch nav screen, espresso warmer...and why not an espresso maker on board?!?

For that price, I'd prefer a 10-year warranty, but that's just me. Maybe I'll buy a Primavera, and slap on some 946 logos.

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kdude wrote:

I think what you're finding is people don't want to put in the work it takes to get to that level. Look at all the personal credit people bury themselves under. Not business credit, personal credit. If people realized how far they could go without the monthly payments, I wonder what this conversation would read like.

I was very close to buying a 911 4s a few years back. Bought some land instead. More of a.. family thing.

Two of my neighbors behind me have Rolls's. Nice cars. Good for you getting what you want out of life.

Harv

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WasRoadbum wrote:

kdude wrote:

You're assuming that he bought his Bentley convertible in cash. A person in a position to buy a a very expensive piece of property that can easily be deducted as a business expense does not buy cash.

As far as the "people don't want to put in the work it takes to get to that level" comment, I'm just going to walk away.

⬆️ About 1 year elapsed ⬇️

OP znomit UTC details Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom
OP znomit Veni, Vidi, Posti S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes Joined: UTC Posts: 11055 Location: Hermit Kingdom	UTC quote That much and it doesn't even have any gears!

Tor2ga UTC details Ossessionato Looking for the next one, probably electric Joined: UTC Posts: 3702 Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
Tor2ga Ossessionato Looking for the next one, probably electric Joined: UTC Posts: 3702 Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida	UTC quote Year old thread..time for the holly stake.

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UTC quote

I am not sure if Piaggio should have made the 946 because it reinforces the negative stereotypes that Vespa's are expensive and slow.

With that stated, Piaggio got a lot of press with the 946. They probably will make their money back on the stamps. They are beautiful scooters. Their engines are have a good reputations for reliability. I am sure it was good for Paiggio's soul to make the 946.

The funny thing is: the 946 might have stolen some of the brainshare and advertising thunder from the Premivera and Sprint.

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UTC quote

I really don't understand the debate here... The 946 is a halo product, an aspirational model. It appeals to people who have a taste for the the exquisite, the hand crafted, the bespoke & personal.... It is also a limitec production study that gave birth to the restyled Primavera & Sprint... It is somewhat extreme in its design and build... The others are more rational in their design and build.

It's seems that some people here are jealous that they can't afford it or are unwilling to spend the amount necessary to own one... They are not the people the bike was aimed at... The Primavera and Sprint are accessible and more than good enough for the masses... Again the 946 is a halo product... It is not meant for most people...

I'd like a Maserati, but at the moment it's out of my price range... I'm not pissed off that other people can have one, I'll just have to lumber on with my Alfa Romeo and aspire to one day owning the Maserati....

Positive

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bluefoam Hooked PX200 Joined: UTC Posts: 211 Location: Dublin	UTC quote By the way, Ford just raced the new GT 40 at Le Man's... There's gonna be allot of pissed off Fiesta drivers out there! Positive

⬆️ About 2 months elapsed ⬇️

pyalong

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kdude wrote:

Amen !

Masala UTC details Veni, Vidi, Posti 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 6167 Location: Acworth, GA
Masala Veni, Vidi, Posti 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 6167 Location: Acworth, GA	UTC quote znomit wrote: 10k and I have to buy the matching helmet bag That is a little disappointing, actually! It's alright, though...I'm working on a more custom (and MUCH less expensive) solution.

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UTC quote

bluefoam wrote:

Again the 946 is a halo product... It is not meant for most people...

It's certainly not meant for most people but I don't think it's really a halo product. I saw one for the 1st time in Paris but didn't recognise it as a Vespa at first though I could see a fair amount of design had gone into it. On recognising the model I just thought "so that's what it looks like" and then moved on. It certainly didn't give me that feeling "I gotta have one of those". The cost certainly rules me out - if I was spending that sort of money then it wouldn't be on a 125cc. I'd also want more poke than a 125cc can give. The basic functionality would also rule me out as I do occasionally carry stuff. As I said, the design was quite pretty, but personally I prefer the GTS 300 super sport in matt black.

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Re: left out.

mpfrank wrote:

jess wrote:

rgconner wrote:

Probably none, since Piaggio probably can't make a viable 946 for that price.

Nah. They'd lose money on each one, but make it up on volume.

[rimshot]

-Why do you smoke? One year you waiste 1000$ for this. In ten years you would buy a new car.
-Well, do you smoke?
-Of course, I don't.
-Then why don't you have a new car?..

pyalong UTC details Member PX150 and 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 11 Location: Australia
pyalong Member PX150 and 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 11 Location: Australia	UTC quote Do you need one ?.......but.....Do you want one ?......YES Please ! They may cost a lot but will also have a higher resale value .....and you get to do what you want not just what you need

pyalong UTC details Member PX150 and 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 11 Location: Australia
pyalong Member PX150 and 946 Joined: UTC Posts: 11 Location: Australia	UTC quote blackbart wrote: Ford assembled its best designers and engineers to produce a small block, overhead valve V8 to counter Chevrolet. God, or aliens provided the small block Chevy V8 for the world to enjoy.

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