Modern Vespa

if safety is a concern here, I'd be more concerned about the crappy tires available in 8" size compared to the world of modern tires available in 10"

maybe my bajaj uses a rally style fork? I honestly don't know... but like I said, it isn't anywhere near hitting anything when under full load

I know what you mean Lynn. I used to have a gigantic Indian Chief and it weighed like 1300 pounds.. As you know.. there is NO comparison between the two... 3 of use pushed it up a ramp into the back of my truck once and it was precarious at best. I sold it when I was in Detroit to a huge, fat biker named Earl (really) who may have weighed like 1300 pounds! They were a perfect match.

LMAO

yes. i have. both fender grinding into the frame, and a fork link snapping (twice). All in dallas, TX, a modern city with mostly blacktop roads. Witnessing both of occur is why there's a PK fork in my VBB. But that's a whole other topic.

Dear LynnB,

Go with a sprint motor. It's not drastically different than VBB engine cases, just better. You'll have much nicer options for crankshafts, and having the 3rd transfer port allows you to mount just about any kit you want. It's not like building a sprint motor will be some crazy speed demon, vs the slug of a VBB.

Top speed on a VBB is what, 45-50? I've had my all stock sprint to 63. Is it sketchy at that speed? nope. Fun as hell to pass people in cars that think you're bat-shit crazy? yup.

Trust me. Stock vs. stock, you'll want the sprint cases. Even gearing them down for 8 inch wheels. If you've got wrenching skills, why don't you just get him to ship you the cases, bare, and then build your own motor. That way, you can salvage anything out of your old motor, and buy new parts a la cart.

www.scootermercato.com will have everything you need. If they don't have it, call bar italia or scooterwest. AVOID SCOOTER WORKS IN CHICAGO AT ALL COSTS.

if you are building an engine, why not a Stella/LML case?

internals are junk but just the cases are ok

Yes that is another option if I knew the difference it would help. I have a couple options for cases.

LML cases are good, not great. I'd take a good set of used piaggio cases over LML cases any day, unless I was building some purpose-built racer and needed the reed kit.

Incase you didn't know, LML is a vespa copy made in india. The cases are setup for reed induction rather than rotary pad induction. Putting an LML engine in a VBB is less ideal than a sprint or rally engine. The flywheel cover and kickstarter will be obviously visually "wrong". The OP seems to be trying to get back to some sort of originality to it.

I'm going to say this one more, and final time. BUY THE SPRINT MOTOR. I put a sprint motor in every scooter I own.

I've invested about as much time as I can with this thread.

Thanks I really appreciate your input.
Perhaps someone can explain the difference between a sprint motor and the regular vbb motor from 1963?
Thanks I'm learning

Again I appreciate your input, yes I can wrench, reason I don't just buy a set of cases and build them up is I'm finding there is more opportunity to buy cases that already have the main components in it and buying just a set of cases alone I would have to buy new crank , Cush drive and tranny as mine have out lived there usefulness. So basicly what is the most economical way to go? I've always been a believer to put the best parts in the bottom end and the top end is more of a wear item that can be replaced in a few hours, well this is what I apply to the old Harley's anyway.

the specs on the sprint motor will get slightly skewed since you're converting it to 8 inch wheels, but this should show you the main differences.

http://scooterhelp.com/scooters/VBB2.150.html

vs

http://scooterhelp.com/scooters/VLB.150sprintv.html

same bore/stroke. more compression, more horsepower, bigger carb with different jets

Saturn.
Mine is also a Bajaj Priya and it's quite clear that a 10" wheel would fit even with the same links, I'd guess. I think they must be different to a VBA.Maybe they're the same as the later Chetak, which is more like a Super. After all the Priya was a developement of the VBA style Vespa 150 made by Bajaj. Have you ever had the top end off? Is it a 3 port?

Just a quick question, what exactly is involved with changing the gearing? I know in a normal bike you can change the comp sprocket , and front and rear main drive sprockets but what would you do on a vespa?

same principle. Vespa is a bit different because the engine is direct drive. so you have to change out a gear within the drive. gearinging is changed at the clutch or xmas tree.

there is a gear calculator at scooterhelp.com. you can play around with it a bit.

the easiest way to do it, is just to call a legit shop and buy a used vbb transmission to put in your cases. Make sure you put a new shift cross (cruciform) in when you do.

done and done.

Thanks Jon, I figured it was something like that, not too many other things you can treak I would imagine.

my Bajaj Priya engine was toast, I installed a Stella motor (non-injected)

I switched out the kickstart quadrant on mine and used a Rally GS/SS kickstart lever (the longer one) so at first glance it's an original motor... also mine is a Bajaj so it's not as big of a deal to go from a Bajaj VBB-based motor to an LML PX-based motor.

if you can get a 3-port Piaggio case... it'd be nearly the same as the Stella motor... EXCEPT Stellas have reed valves and electronic ignition and slightly better porting. They're also often cheaper to get.

So I say if you JUST want a case and can get a Piaggio case cheap, do it. If you need more than the case (gears, selector box, etc), LML is a better option in my opinion.

call kyle's scooter shop in dallas. he has shelves and shelves of bare cases. and everything to go between them.

I see there are a few signifigant differnces listed.

This may sound dumb but... is a piaggio case and a sprint case one and the same?

Lynn, did you get your frame back from the blaster yet?

a Piaggio case would be any case built by Piaggio (a "real" Vespa case) including a Sprint case. they are no longer in production, so finding one means you're buying a used case.

LML cases are built in India and the engines used in Genuine Stellas / Star scooters - nearly identical to a Piaggio/Vespa case except for upgrades to 80s technology instead of the 50s technology still used in a Piaggio case. these are still built today and are easy to find (you can buy them new from SIP).

I have my old vbb transmission but really I'm not so sure it is in any condition to be used, I posted them in another thread but really didn't get much feedback on them so I don't know for sure.
Is it the entire tranny that changes the gearing and I'm assuming on a sprint or rally, or is it the vbb tranny used and simply swapping out one of the 4 gears or mutiple gears

Frig no I've been over there everyday this week and either its snowing or there having problems blasting because of moisture. Went by after work at 2 and he said they were going to try again at 3 so who knows

Awsome I really feel like I'm getting some place now with my vespa edumaction
Can you please tell me the last year Piaggio cases/motors were made?

you can technically get a new P200 (200cc) case made by Malossi using the same molds as Piaggio...

but I guess the last year they made cases would have been for the last iteration of USA PX150 scooters 6+ years ago...

the last year they officially made anything larger (P200, rally 180) would've been 20+ years ago in Europe.

my point is basically this: people can argue back and forth all day about which case is better, but technically the LML cases use superior technology (just crappier built cranks and bearings). the LML engines are easy to find and cheap (about $1000).

a Piaggio engine has better internals and will probably work just as well even with older technology, but you will have a hard time finding one that isn't beat up. at least finding one cheaper than an LML.

so it comes down to what you want to do with it, if you want a whole engine or just a case, what you want to spend, and if you're a "purist" or not.

I said it in the other thread and I will say it again, some VN guy added brass to your shim. Those four spots you see that are gold, that is brass added by brazing. They did that because of wear somewhere in your transmission. And by a good educated guess, your transmission has over 100,000 miles on it. No joke, that's how they roll in the 'NAM.

Thanks Jon, is there any other overly worn places that pop out?like on the shaft where the gears ride. The grooves.

It is hard to say without measuring it. Nothing I can see with my own eyes over the Internet.

You okay with running a VN gear stack with 100,00 miles+ ? Rhetorical question aside, get yourself something not worn out.

My eyes are worn out from looking at it.

Off topic but the hands moving on Lynn's avatar make me feel like I'm tripping just a bit.

So are mine Cris.

Call me old fashioned but I'm a firm believer if your going to use someone's given name it should be spelt correctly no edit option in MV for iPhone

It was either Garfield or some cute wanna be vespa lady jiggling , and forget it you don't get a choice.

Point taken. I got this cheap ass Haynes manual, thin in info, I don't think it has any service limit specs but ill check.
The brazing rod spots make me think who ever did it didn't have proper shims for lining up the gears.

they don't have proper anything. that's the point.

Wait, when did that start?

You have to pay attention to the fine things in life .

Probably right after you swallowed the acid.

You need to turn your phone to panoramic and you'll see the screen refresh. The "Edit" button will appear in the upper-right corner of the individual posts.


As for using names and spelling them correctly, I am a bit old fashioned and believe if we were not formally introduced with first names then a professional or formal address should be used. I am using "SFvsr" on MV and much prefer that address on the forum. It's like me walking up to your mom and using a nickname to talk to her; it is a little rude.

I never offered my real name to anyone here. The only way it would ever come up would be if someone used my real name to convey in some way we have a more intimate acquaintance with me than they have in reality. Some things on the internet should be kept at arms length and I am one of those things.

Hmmm I see. A pm would have been nice a bit earlier on, guess I'm not use to formalities on "this" forum.
Fair enough.