Modern Vespa

Ok, Australia will be included and this offer will be expired on 2013,Jan.01 and appreciate your performance testing.

Does this offer only apply to group buys? I am also in Australia, but on the other side from MODNROD, and am very interested in that special offer, especially with the good exchange rate of the Aussie dollar at the moment.

Mike

Ok, Australia will be included and this offer will be expired on 2013,Jan.01 and appreciate your performance testing.[/quote]

Gday Dr. Pulley.
My payment has been sent today. I will do performance testing as I listed earlier, I'm looking forward to it, I rekn it should be fun!
Thanks for your kind offer.
Merry Christmas to Taiwan.
Regards,
Dave

Gday Mike.
I think the "group offer" is meant for MV members, and the parts are posted individually to members.

It's correct,the parts will be sent to individual member.

By the way,if your payment is done,please send us your detailed shipping address and phone no. via email of
Dr.Pulley- Wallis<service2>

@Dr.Pulley : What weight do you suggest for a Vespa GTS 300 ?
I would like a setup for better "in gear" acceleration (40-90 km/h)

for GTS300,we suggest SR2115 in 15 or 16 gram for our V201503 with boss in 46mm.

I meant for use in the original varistor.

Hi Kristof

I've already touched on this with Paul aka Dr.Pulley via a PM
I got one of those lick finger in air answers.

All depends on how heavy you are, how tall are you (wind resistance) riding style etc. Mind you you've stated your desired outcome, "in gear"......

The recommendation on the Dr.Pulley site is one gramm less than stock.
If you can find the relevant section on vid link below Rolf recommends 13g (stock is 13.9) then I suppose it's down to you whether you go +/-

I've just orderded 13g from SIP Scooters based on Rolf's comment. If he doesn't know then knowbody will.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKH5U7hA_ij5_BFquIPJNxb6CHMZ8t25W

Chris

The roller installed for GTS300 in Taiwan is 2117 in 13.8 gram and its compatible SR2117 used mostly is in 13 & 13.5gram.

I installed my Dr.Pulley variator yesterday, and took it for a test run this morning. Unfortunately, the results were disappointing, because the sliders provided were too heavy.

It came with two sets of sliders, 15 gram and 16 gram. I choose to fit the 15 gram ones as I am more interested in acceleration than speed. The result was a very quick and smooth take-off, but I have lost the small wheelie I was getting with the Polini. Acceleration from any speed was also disappointing. At no stage could I get the revs above 7500, and the motor produces its peak power at 9000 rpm.

I still have high hopes for this variator, but I need to test it with 12 or 13 gram sliders.

Just for the record, my GTS250 has a Malossi cylinder and head and Malossi lambda emulator, torque spring, torque converter and clutch springs.

Stay tuned for the next exciting instalment!

Mike

Gday Mike.
Mine is on its way to the boonies where I live! I have also ordered other parts, when it all gets here I'll bolt it al up.
I wonder what weight SR are in my kit?

Progress report. I didn't want to pay for lighter sliders, and then wait a week for delivery, so I bored out the 16 gram sliders and converted them to 13 grams. Big improvement. I can now get my revs up to 8500-9000 full throttle at 80 kph. 8)

Performance is generally better, but still not as good as my Polini, particularly at take-off.

So now I am going to re-install the Polini, and wait for some other reports to come in. Don't see why I should be the only guinea pig around here! I need to know whether all my other mods are queering the pitch for the Dr.Pulley variator setup.

Club ride on Sunday, and I want my scooter at its best.

Mike

Revhead! lol

I just got mine today, with 15g and 16g sets. I'm still waiting on a few other bits (like a Tinty Tach so I can check revs against speed stock and Dr Pulley'd), then I'll fit them in. You won't be on your own Mike!
The parts are going into a X8 250ie, which is 30kg heavier than the GTS. My weight though, is on the lighter side at 80kg. I spose I could always look for a stock GTS with a 120kg rider so I have 1/2 a chance........


PS Mike - drilling out the 16g sliders, was it achieved with a hand drill and holding your mouth right, or a custom billet fixture in a bridgeport mill?

mmm that sounds awfully allot like a stock variator with sliders...

i mean, i had the polini 9 roller, indeed a great acceleration from a complete stop, it ws like the belt is sitting a few millimeters deeper so you'd have a smaller gear at takeoff.

then i went to use the stock variator again but with the Dr Pulley sliders and i had a big dip at takeoff, i'm now running red malossi clutch springs to take away that dip.

maybe you need to go to a 12,5gr Mike ?

I picked up mine from the PO, today. Hope to start testing Monday.

I was very methodical. I checked the density of brass, then measured the length and diameter of the tube in the sliders, and calculated just how much I needed to increase the bore for a 2-gram drop in weight.

Then I scrapped all the calculations and got out a drill bit that was just too large to go through, and drilled the buggers out. I weighed them with an ancient jewellers balance weight set, and had to make small adjustments with a reamer. I clamped them in a small vice on my drill press to make sure the holes stayed straight and central.

Looking forward to your experiences with this variator. I did find it very smooth (I believe the Polini 9-roller is also very smooth), and was surprised to find much more compression braking when I closed the throttle.

Mike

just a note about the inadequate installation instructions. They consist of an exploded diagram of the variator, and instructions to fit 0, 1, 2 or 3 spacer washers between the sleeve and the half-pulley ("fuzzy washers"). Only one washer was provided with my kit.

I had to look up notes on this forum to determine that for 125cc and 150cc scooters you fit the one washer, for 200-300cc you don't fit any.

After my tests I found slight traces of belt rubbing on the casing. This could be caused by the too-heavy 15 gram weights pushing the belt out further than it should go. When I next fit this variator, I intend to fit the washer, firstly to prevent any possible belt rubbing, and secondly to see whether that improves take-off by letting the belt ride lower in the variator at low revs.

Mike

interesting Mike, are you going to do the test with your self made 13gr sliders or with the new ones you ordered ?

I had the same scenario with DP weights too heavy on oem belt & oem variator. Fixed this with uber light DP weights.
I colour the inside of the casing with texta to continually check for rubbing every service.

It'll be interesting to see the effects of the spacers with low gear & take-off.
My testing starts hopefully Monday.

Hi Mike,
In my previous mail,I told you "The suggested setup ( ie.SR2115 ,15/16 gram & boss in 46mm ) is good for 250cc (stock one without any modification) in Taiwan and maybe the suggested setup is not suitable to your scooter modified with " Malossi V4 cylinder and head, Malossi TC Lambda Emulator, Malossi red clutch springs, torque spring and torque controller, and Akrapovic exhaust ".
So please do several tunings to find out the real problem is the length of boss or the weight of SR2115.
If you're sure that the SR2115 15,16 gram is too heavy then I'll send you two sets of lighter SR2115 just tell me what're the weights you prefer.

Regards,

Sleeper, I haven't ordered any other sliders. Have just done the one test with my 13 gram sliders, and they solved the problem of not being able to rev over 7500 rpm.

Dr.Pulley, I am still waiting for some other guys to chime in with their experiences, to see whether they agree with you about 15/16 gram sliders for a 250. With my mods my scooter needs slightly heavier rollers or sliders than it did when standard, so it doesn't make sense to me that it would need much lighter sliders in your variator. But 13 grams defnitely works better for me than 15 grams.

Thanks for the offer of different weight sliders. I think I would like 11 and 12 gram sets to experiment with. I can then mix them to get 11.5 or 12.5 grams. And before everyone chimes in, yes, I know I have to stagger them to balance the variator.

Mike

As you say SR2115 13 gram is much better than 15 gram ,i'll send you SR2115 in 11 & 12 gram on next week.

Thanks for that. But please don't expect me to try them in a hurry. I don't like opening my transmission too often, as the threads in the casing wear, and I have already stripped one socket. I expect my next trial will be 12 grams plus a spacer washer or two, maybe later next week.

Mike

How would I get in on a group order? Is there one?

OOPs just saw it expired. oh well

Well, I do have a sump oil leak, and now my variator, belt and clutch are coated with oil, and the clutch is slipping badly. Got home from my run with great difficulty taking off, particularly on uphills. Had to buy some oil and top up at intervals riding home (40 mile trip each way).So now I need a new sump gasket, and need to clean my belt, variator and clutch plates.

I am sure the belt rubbing was due to the extra slider movement in this variator plus the lack of spacer washers meaning the belt is pushed even higher plus the heavy slider weights doing the pushing. Next time I shall most certainly mark the inside of the casing as suggested by NOBODY, and then check it after a short hard ride.

I hope that others are going to have more success with this variator. Before installing, mark the casing, and, if you can't reach peak revs, open up the transmission and check those markings. Don't ride you scooter if it doesn't feel right. Good luck!

I'm eagerly awaiting reports of other experiences with this variator. Dr.Pulley stuff is good, so I can't berlieve they would sell anything shoddy, but at the same time I can't see how my other mods could be responsible.

Mike

Mike, sorry to hear of your dramas, & thankyou for the heads-up.

I had similar probs with Malossi belt + too heavy DP slider weights ages ago. Was boggy as hell at high speed, & was spinning up the "tensioner wheel"....the small wheel in between the front & rear pulleys.
Only minor gasket damage for me.

I've just been out for a short blat to get data on my old configuration before tinkering with DP variator later...supposed to be fixing the mower!

I've heard of DP 8 gram slider weights used in a GTS before which is the weight I'm using though it's not a GTS.
My gearing is different so results may vary on other machines.

OEM clutch & contra spring
Dayco belt with about 1,000k's only on it.
OEM variator
DP 8g slider weights
Clutch bite @ 4,000rpm
Dropout @ 15kph
40kph = 4krpm
60kph = 5.1krpm
80kph = 7.1krpm
100kph=8.1krpm
max speed = 125kph @ 8.5krpm

At the moment, apart from trying to configure the DP variator with a combo of lightest supplied weights & 3xwashers, I'm really thinking to try 3x16g weights though not loaded up, pushing for top speed : only to get a comparison against existing settings under light load for fear of warping the new DP variator ramp plate, & then order 8g's if I can get them.
But all this is hypothetical. See what real world testing shows, & what can be gotten out of supplied DP kit.

Not sure about testing Monday....see how time goes.

Regards

Yes, the Malossi belt is a fair bit higher than the OEM one, and is easily pushed to the point where it rubs on the case. PM Tuning/Scootering magazine had this problem in their GTS250 variator comparison test. Their test scooter had a Malossi belt, and to keep the test fair and not change the belt, they had to insert spacer washers into the Polini variator to prevent rubbing.

I have had the problem before when using sliders in my Polini, and had to add a 1 mm spacer to prevent the rubbing.

There is not much spare belt space at either end of the transmission, so when anyone claims their variator gives a wider range of pulley ratios, one has to be cautious. Even more so with a Malossi belt.

Mike

Ok I only had 2 washers. Need more washers.

In my opinion this variator has to be set-up from a perspective of top speed not reached because too many washers preventing the variator from closing thus preventing damage.
Seems way too easy to push the belt beyond the casing's design restrictions, & therefore rubbing the casing.
I'm hoping it was merely localised over heating that vaporized some oil through the gasket. Was surprised that despite Mike's warning (we all owe thanks) & despite only a short test I didn't notice it rubbing while I rode. Just a bit of oil in the casing upon post-test inspection.....just letting it cool down before washing with solvent, matt black spray in specific area concerned (better than sharpie permanent marker).
Will then test for oil leak.

OEM clutch & contra spring
Dayco belt with about 1,000k's only on it.
New Dr Pulley variator
New DP 14g slider weights
Clutch bite @ 3.5krpm
Dropout @ 15kph or less
40kph = 4.5krpm
60kph = 6krpm
80kph = 7krpm
100kph=7.5krpm
max speed = 125kph approx.....bit less coz over-geared & rubbing @ 8.1krpm approx.
Hard Acceleration = 8krpm
"loaded" Pick-up from 80kph???

I'm curious how this variator would perform under load of 2-up riding & camping gear going up hills etc compared to oem var + oem roller, & oem var + DP weights.
Hard acceleration = 8krpm... didn't note this with old aforementioned 8g set-up profile
Coasting ability seems better than old profile : less engine brake ....good or bad?......depends on preferences.
Different vibrations transmitted reminding me of oem rollers
Smother sound, like oem rollers.
Uses more torque than my aforementioned 8g set-up profile

Pick-up from 80kph? I need to note this when top speed rubbing problem is sorted as I have a particular corner on a hill than needs the gearing "on the money/sweet spot" to continue speedily up the hill. OEM roller weights & variator were hopelessly boggy as hell.
Changes gear (pushes the belt out) more easily because the ramp angle is shallower (flatter) than oem.

another thought.....because the new DP Variator is using heavier weights more effectively/differently, does this mean the variator or slider weights can wear out quicker than an oem variator with lighter slider weights as per my quoted "8g set-up profile"?

Regards.

Ok, so we're getting there.
15 grams - peak revs = 7500 rpm.
14 grams - peak revs = 8100 rpm.
13 grams - peak revs = 9000 rpm.

So maybe 13 grams is the optimum, getting one to the peak power of the GTS at about 8500 - 9000 rpm. But I'm going to try 12 grams to see what happens. The 15 and 16 gram sliders provided with my kit were definitely too heavy, restricting the power of the scooter.

Now I want to see whether adding two spacer washers will give me the take-off that I was getting with my Polini.

I have a new gasket, new oil filter, new oil all waiting. But today has been to hot to work on the scooter - around 43 degrees and great bush fire danger. I live quite close to the bush.

Mike

Mike, compared to your polini(with Dr pulley sliders ?) setup, does the bike "feels" or even "is really faster" with the Dr pulley variator ??

or do you think it's about the same and you hope to gain more with the 12gr sliders ?

I'm rather thinking more spacers than 2 to physically restrict the variator from allowing the belt to run into the casing eg, when going down steep hills.

Yeah 12g's are the next logical step....if too light, can always mix 50/50 14g's & 12g's.

I'm trying some liquid loctite 515 gasket maker...tried cutting a paper gasket without much finesse.

Good luck there.

I had 12.5 gram rollers in my Polini, and so far the Dr.Pulley variator just doesn't compare, for take-off or acceleration from any speed. I haven't really tested top speed. I have had my scooter up to 140 kph with the Polini, but I don't want to lose my licence! With the 15 gram sliders limiting the revs to 7500, I'm sure the Dr.Pulley wouldn't get there.

When I used sliders in my Polini, I had belt rubbing problems and had to fit extra spacers. I don't recall what the take-off was like then, but it has never been better than with my present rollers.

I still have a conviction that this variator should give better results than the Polini. Just have to find the correct configuration of weights and washers, and keep checking for rubbing as I experiment. I don't expect much more peformance, as my scooter is already highly tuned, but hope for much smoother take-off and acceleration.

Mike

wel... i tested the polini 9 roller before i tested the stock variator with the Dr pulley's and my outcome was that the results where almost equal except the polini was indeed faster of the line.

i did loved the stock setup with the sliders so i left it there and put in stronger clutch springs.

so at some points my and your vieuw about the polini is the same.

i just did not like to change the rollers every 3-4000km with the polini.

i still am not convinced that a 200 dollar variator from pulley can be allot better then the stock setup with the sliders like i do have now, in my eyes it can't get much better then this and if it does it would'nt be much and compared to the price for a vey little performance increase it' not worth.

i hope this thread and the people that are testing become a good result so i have to change my mind

You can order it from http://www.buggypartsnw.com/home?page=shop.browse&category_id=31

Fixed my crankcase oil leak this morning. New sliders (11 gram and 12 gram) arrived midday, and this afternoon I fitted the 12 gram sliders along with two 0.5mm spacer washers..

Just had a short ride down the street, accelerated hard up to 70 kph (limit is 55!), and then tried a full throttle standing start.

The engine got up to just over 9000 rpm, but I am stll not happy with the acceleration. Just doesn't feel as exciting and arm-stretching as it was with the Polini. It felt smooth but dull. Its 6 pm and I will do a fuller test tomorrow, with the scooter properly warmed up.

Sorry, Dr.Pulley. I expected more from it, but having to tune it to find the best combinatiion of slider weights and spacer washers is a pain in the arse, and having belt rubbing cause a crankcase oil leak is a definite downer. I missed two club rides because of it. I hope some others will have a better result with your standard setup for a GTS250.
.
Mike

Mike,

I'm expecting more spacers, & 12g weights to arrive soon in the post.

I'm wondering, with several spacers in there, the belt will stop short of the top of the variator pulley, & revs start to increase as one reaches near top speed with the assumption the weights aren't massively too heavy.

Off topic, did you override/disable your rev limiter?
I know you've got the Malossi head etc, but wondering how you got 140kph out of it.

Hope the weather conditions etc aren't too crazy in your part of the woods.

Kind regards,
nb

Hi Nobody. Yes, spacers allow the belt to start deeper in the variator at low revs, but limit how far out the variator can push it at high revs. Once the belt is as far as it can go, only increasing engine revs can add to the speed.

I haven't done anything to my rev limiter. It normally wakes up at just over 9000 rpm, at about 135 kph. but sometimes you can override it by backing off the throttle a bit, and still get more speed.

NB. That's 140 as indicated on the speedo. Probably really about 132 or something. My scooter gets up to 130-135 indicated easily, but I seldom have the opportunity (or desire) to go any faster. Don't feel; stable enough.

Sorry, Dr.Pulley, going off topic here. It's not my fault. Nobody is to blame!

Mike

Hi guys

I've got this kit coming for my GTV 300 but won't be able to install it until first week of Feb. What I have taken from this so far is to use the spaces, 2 possibly 3 of them.

What will be different for me is the 300 does no rev as high as the 250 so my slider weight requirements are going to be different to Mike and sleeper.

Any recommendations where I should start? Should I start with the 15gr or go straight to a lighter weight.

At the moment I am using the stock variator with 14gr sliders. The take off is a bit sluggish but acceleration from 70km upwards is great. Top speed I can easily sit on 120km.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.