Modern Vespa

Hi Mike,

I'll make it public.
The videos from the clients seems only showing that they installed V201503, HiT211701 in the scooters.I don't know if it's ok for you.

By the way,the clients said the stock V-belt will be rubbing the CVT housing during the idle stage but this matter is gone at high speed.And for V201503 the situation is the same,the stock V-belt won't rub the housing during the high speed.
And for GTV250ie the stock roller is 2117 11.3 gr and the compatible SR2117 used in stock variator is 13 gram,do you thought it's too heavy or too light? what's yours ?


Regards,

So after four pages in this thread no one has actually used one of these in their scoot??!

I am in the same boat with my Sliders, just haven't got my scoot back on the road yet.
I was curious about this and thought I had wasted my money on the Sliders being a better system had been developed but seeing as no one is using it or even has any info on any one who actually has tried one in their scoot I am now feeling like I have not lost out on anything.

If anybody ever puts one of these in their scooter and goes for a ride Please post up if it makes any real world difference.
Thanks for your time.
Mega.

You haven't read Mike Holland's posts?

[quote="Dr.Pulley]By the way,the clients said the stock V-belt will be rubbing the CVT housing during the idle stage but this matter is gone at high speed.And for V201503 the situation is the same,the stock V-belt won't rub the housing during the high speed.[/quote]

This sounds completely back to front. When the engine is not running, the belt is high in the clutch pulley and very low in the variator. Only as you pick up revs do the roller/slider weights push the belt out in the variator, and pull it in in the clutch pulley. So it it only at high speed/full throttle that the belt is liable to rub the transmission case below the variator.

Mike

I will be installing on a gt200. Not sure when, but I have it here so just need to find some time. I'll let ya know when I can.

This sounds completely back to front. When the engine is not running, the belt is high in the clutch pulley and very low in the variator. Only as you pick up revs do the roller/slider weights push the belt out in the variator, and pull it in in the clutch pulley. So it it only at high speed/full throttle that the belt is liable to rub the transmission case below the variator.

Mike[/quote]

Confused the hell out of me too.

I do not mean to cause any offence but has somebody verified that 'Dr Pulley' is truly representative of the company and not simply an avid fan in a nearby location?

Its just that some of what is being posted appears to be inaccurate and this does not seem conducive of what a company and its employees specialising in scooters would post!

Enquiring minds want to know...

Yes. We're communicating with the principal.

Mike Holland generously helped me out by getting his Dr Pulley Variator to me... in honour of that, this week coming up I will be spending a ton of time testing and playing with the variator to see different outcomes etc. I only have a Scarabeo 250ie (still the quasar engine though) to play with. I will be doing some testing with acceleration etc to see what gives the best results vs Stock variator (which already has Dr Pulley Sliders) I will be trying the washers that were supplied too...

Anyways next week should be interesting!! Any Perthites who are around and want to see it - just PM me!!

Yes and it seems like its a piece of crap.
Nothing works and he gave up.
It seems like a lot of people bought them but he is the only one who installed it.
I re-read all the posts and he went back to a Polini. I have read So many reviews that Polini work great for about 2000 km then they turn to junk as well.

To quote Mike Holland "Is anyone going to test this thing on an otherwise standard GTS?"
By 4 pages I was expecting 25 installs and rave reviews.
I do hope someone gets lucky and has a good experience with one, at the price it costs I would have been really upset at the findings so far and it makes me glad I waited to buy one.
Mega.

Thanks for that Tomjasz.

So what I don't get is that this has been verified by members a quality piece and beautifully engineered. So ,why go to so much trouble to design and produce it and then let yourself down in the final stages by not ensuring that the sliders are appropriate?

I cannot believe that the scooters produced for the Greek (European) and the Vietnam and Thailand (South East Asian) markets would be so fundamentally different as to require different weights than the American or Australian markets.

N.B. I'm not sure if the Australian bikes are similar to the Asian or American requirements but always thought because of the crappy front reflectors on the front fender of both American and Australian that they were one and the same!

So something doesn't add up here was all I wanted to add to the thread!

Please be patient before drawing alkl sorts of horrible conclusions.

So far I am the only one who has reported in, and my scooter is far from standard. Maybe next week we will see some reports either confirming or denying my results.

I agree it has been a long wait for others to chime in with their results. Next week, I hope!

Mike

NB. Belt rubbing does seem to occur with the standard variator and the Polini. I expect it occurs when one closes the throttle suddenly, and the belt is loose and flapping around a bit before the clutch pulley takes up trhe slack. But this is very transient, and does not harm the crankcase gasket.

NB2. After examining my ruined gasket, I concluded that it was the friction heat of the rubbing that did the damage, not the belt ripping the exposed edge of the gasket.

Not quite accurate. I am still convinced that this variator should give good results with the right configuration. I am just not willing to rip my transmision open a dozen times to get the best results, while no-one has done anything yet to help evaluate it (except Dr.Pulley, sending me some lighter sliders free!)..

Mike

This is where I come in!! I am more than willing to rip it apart 20 times to help everyone out, I don't have a lot on my plate right now so I should help the community out! I plan on actually using science to measure the differences too SCIENCE!!! WTF!!!!

Uhmmm, you sure man?
That sounds a bit rash to me.
I use science at work every day, trust me, it's vastly over-rated.

I'm doing mine this weekend hopefully.
In between making greenhouses for the wife, making vege gardens for all of us, and making my damn Vmax work again for the drags in 6 weeks.
But I still want to focus on the variator test, much more interesting!

Hey guys, Im from Singapore and riding a Gilera Runner ST200. It shares the same engine as the GT200 vespa.

Scooter market in singapore is huge but mostly dominated by Malossi products.

So yesterday i got myself a new Dr Pulley hit clutch and variator. (Tryin to be different) 8)

My scoot transmission was setup with the following.

11g sliders
Yellow clutch springs
Malossi Torque driver
" Torsion Control
" white contra spring
Polini speed bell

First initial short sprint run was quite amazing, bike surge forward without hesitation and when up to 70km/h in a hurry.

Then i headed home the workshop and found its alittle too revvy for me, meaning is running 100km/h @ 8000rpm. But its throttle response is immediate ard 4000rpm-7000rpm. Overtaking is a joy.

So today I got myself 12g sliders. Works better 100km/h @ 7.8-8rpm not much of a difference. Gonna experiment with 13g or 14g to suit my needs. (Average 70-80km a day mostly @100km/h)

About the belt rubbing, yes theres abit of rubbing but i add 3 washers and vooola! No more rubbing. And there's no change or even little change in gearing.

Manage to try WOT on the way home just now, 200cc pulls to 128km/h @ 8500-8800rpm on straight and flat highway.

Thats my review for Dr pulley stuff. Quite good but can be better.
Will post future experiments with different weights.

I am going to be testing

Stock with Dr Pulley sliders
Dr Pulley variator (with various weights and washer set ups)
Polini 9 roller variator

I will be doing test runs filming the speedo as I do stand still to 100km/h and be doing several runs with each of the set ups...

Will be interesting to see what ends up as the best result.

I will also be doing some inspections of the belt and case to check for rubbing (using a texta to mark it to look for rubbing)

Everything else on the Beo 250ie is going to be stock (other than the exhaust which is Leo Vince 4 Road and Mike Hollands air box mod) I will be beginning the testing tomorrow!

I just remembered that I have a Super Corsa Racing power booster that I need to test at some point too... going to have a look at getting that going too... I think that will work in tandem with the exhaust more than work with any particular variator set up, so I will test that on it's own, not with each variator - unless I get REALLY bored hahaha

Looking forward to the results bunnybash. I was hoping to do mine this weekend,but it has pretty much been raining in Brisbane for 3 days straight now.

Maybe next weekend.

OK...

Mike is correct - getting the variator to behave nicely is proving to be a bit of a challenge...

I initially loved the 12g sliders with no washers, it is REALLY pulling strong between 0 -70km/h but it is too revvy at 100km/h. Also when I take off there is a horrible screeching sound that is terrifying to hear and makes me scared for my scooter!!

I have just tried the 15g sliders without the washers and still got the crazy sound on take off. I think it is the belt rubbing something - just trying to get a marker to test which area now.

Here is the stock variator with 12g sliders
Here is the Dr Pulley variator with 12g sliders with no washers
Here is the Dr Pulley variator with 11g sliders with 2 washers. At 6sec you can hear the screech of something rubbing... it's freakin terrifying when you are riding.
http://youtu.be/mUVo0LCrJKU

While you are going wild with your marker, mark the stancion in the transmission cover just behind the clutch.

If the belt is running too low in the variator (too many washers), it will run high in the clutch pulley, and cause a horrible squeal when idling or taking off.

If this is your problem, you can file 1mm or so from the stancion to fix the squeal. Having the belt extra low in the variator should improve take-off, by giving you an extra low "low gear".

Good luck, and have fun.

Mike

Mike, once again I think you are correct!!! I will have a go at it... It is the screech at idle and take off...

Interesting that the 11g rollers are providing the least performance... feels like it is revving and nothing is happening...

Interesting to note that tonight I had three races against my wife. We used to be neck and neck, which makes sense cause we had the same mods, in all three races I was at least 3 scooter lengths in front by the time we got to 65 km/h

I was running the 11g weights with two washers.

hello every body, is someone here unhappy with 15 or 16g sliders ready to offer them ? I pay postage to France and will be glad to share feedback here.

Juju, the sliders for this variator are a different size and won't fit in a standard variator.
Mike

I am convinced that the DR Pulley variator removes the hesistation that happens on take off.

you can hear it in the videos, the revs don't drop on launch....

I am going to move back to the 12g sliders tomorrow and to install the 2 washers. 11g are just not up to providing torque above 70km/h. I think that might be the ultimate set up and then to test rubbing of the belt and i think I need to file that stanchion down, however the screeching and grinding has actually stopped on the short ride I did today.

Will report back tomorrow morning when I open up the case again!

The screech would stop the moment the engine picks up revs and the sliders start moving the belt. But after a short while of screeching, a groove would be worn in the top of the belt anyway, and the screech would go away. Then you don't need to do any filing - until you fit a new belt! 8)

Mike

Well the belt is rubbing the case - with the 11g sliders and 2 washer.

Here are the pics

Before


After


Also Mike I can't find the stanchion post that I should file down... it might be different in the Scarabeo case, if I take a picture of the case can you point out which one you are talking about?

Thanks!!!

I have yesterday installed the 12g sliders and 1 washer - this seems to be one of the best options - it has removed the hesistation on take off that seems to be prevalent on all Quasar scooters with the stock variator and the top speed is not reduced (this was a consequence of the 11g sliders). And it's not revving high (11g sliders again)

Overall I am happy with this modification - is it an improvement over the stock variator with Dr Pulley sliders - hell yes, big improvement. The hesitation on take off alone is worth the cost of entry!

I am not sure how to rid myself of the case rubbing though!!!

Hi BB,

Hope your casing gasket is unscathed, & level stays put.
UNRELATED, but.....1st pic, far left.....is that a rubber "engine mount" that needs replacing?

Did you note what the engine's revs were at clutch bite, take-off, 110kph, & max speed etc etc?

Where on the bike does the hesitation originate from? eg, engine balking under take-off load @ low revs, variator lag, belt sinking into contra pulley etc?

Kind regards
nb.

Yeah I hope my gasket stays fine, I just replaced my wife's gasket recently after her belt exploded!

I also noticed the rubber engine mount, I am taking it to a mechanic to have a look at next week... never noticed it till I was taking pics etc.

The scarabeo doesn't have a tachometer, so I can't actually record the revs It's just an auditory guess (hence I am guessing and not using specifics!)

The hesitation is the engine balking under take off load @ low revs. Not sure but it has been present on every Quasared scooter that I have ever ridden. You can kind of hear it on the first video, but my Samsung GS2 doesn't isolate sounds well on audio recording!!

Wouldn't suggesting elastic waistband pants have worked as well?

hahaha that is gold...

yeah she is not at the elastic waist band stage yet... actually she is making her second come back in professional basketball this year - so she is in superb shape!!!

Anyone have any tests of their own to share of trying to perfect the Dr Pulley set up??

I am convinced that I need to do something to fix the stanchion rubbing and I also need to figure out a way to stop the belt rubbing the case up near the oil pan under the variator... I don't want another chewed up gasket!!

Do people think that adding washers to the variator will make the rubbing less? Or should I get rid of the washers... I currently have one washer.

Sigh this is a freakin mystery trying to perfect the set up!!

To belabor my own earlier point: why should it be necessary for you to be doing this testing, especially on your own dime?

A truly responsible manufacturer would have worked out the bugs before putting the device on the market.

Okay, it sounds like you need to increase the minimum distance between the variator cones at high speeds, while leaving the maximum distance between the cones unchanged. The variator cones are at their maximum separation while stopped, and at very low speeds.

By now you understand that adding washers alone increases both the minimum distance between the cones as well as the maximum distance.

I am loath to suggest this but ...

Suppose you are currently running a single 1 mm washer and you would like to increase that to 2 mm by adding a washer but you don't want to change to maximum distance between the cones at idle. The solution is to machine 1mm from the end of the bushing and add the 1mm washer. This leaves the maximum (idle) distance between the cones unchanged and ensures the two cones can never get closer than 2 mm for each other.

As Silver Streak points out, this may amount to a lot more trial and error than the average consumer should bear.

$150 and it may or may not create havoc. Thanks Mr Weng.

Thanks to those for going through the paces. It's good reading, and learning here.

Yes. Exactly.

Adding 2mm of washers to the end of the centre pin will solve the belt rubbing on the crank end, but will only cause new rubbing on the clutch end as the belt is forced out too far (distance at rest between the lower parts of the sheaves is now too far apart).

Adding 2mm to the gap between the sheaves but not between them (the I.D. of the 2mm washer sits on the O.D. of the centre pin), similar to what is done on some 50cc speed-limited scooters, will not affect the variator gap at rest (so no rubbing on the clutch end of the case), but will bring the variator gap at full top speed back to standard, so no rubbing on the case at the sump end.

I have made the washer up out of hardened steel (and smoothed it out obviously after machining), but have not fitted it yet, as I'm unsure whether the centre pin is of hard enough steel to take the added washer sliding around loose over it's outer surface.

The quickest most effective way to fix the issue for this new variator, and it would seem only for those customers who insist on using the very top 10% of speed available from it's design, is for Dr Pulley to either re-design the variator belt ramps to remove this extra 2mm, thereby bringing it back to the standard gap, or for us customers to machine 2mm off the end of the centre pin, then add a 2mm thick washer that is firmly bolted between the centre pin and the fixed pulley, but high enough to stop the variator 2mm out from it's stop.
This washer should be 17.4mm I.D. to fit over the shaft, and over 30mm O.D. to then stop the variator sheaves coming together too close (combined with the centre pin being machined 2mm).
Note this is ONLY for the Quasar engine. I have also checked the 125cc Leader casing on my 2010 Aprilia Sportcity One, and I feel the variator would be bloody brilliant in that bike, promising both excellent acceleration COMBINED with an increased top speed. The Leader casing has much more room for the belt and drivetrain.

I live 200 miles from the nearest traffic light and machinist, which is why I haven't fitted mine yet. I can't get the bits made for me easily or quickly, and I need it to get to work.

If you don't use that last final 10% of available top speed or full throttle, then the belt won't ride up too far and contact the case, using Dr Pulley's suggested fitment details. Yeah, right.

Unfortunately Dr Pulley, in this instance I am afraid the product you have designed is excellent in it's manufacture, beautifully created, but was not fully tested in ALL environments before product release. A performance variator that causes problems for the owners when used in extended high speed running is an oxymoron. It is also not good for sales in those areas likely to exprience this extended high speed running........which means at least Europe, Nth America and Australia. ALL of us in these places are capable of holding the throttle completely flat until the bike uses a whole tank of fuel, not flat for 3 mins until you run out of road or encounter thick traffic.

I still have my Dr Pulley variator kit, but until I can manufacture a hardened steel washer 2mm thick, 17.4mm I.D. and 36mm O.D., and then machine 2mm off my supplied-in-the-kit centre pin, I will not be fitting it, no matter how pretty and shiny it is, and no matter how much I admire Dr Pulleys other product.

If I want to go fast, I will get out the modified 1987 Vmax or my TT Supra, but my scooter which gets all my road km will stay slow and reliable.

I've just re-measured the washer necessary with digital verniers.
To get an exact fit, washer should be 2mm thick, 17.4mm I.D., and 36-39mm O.D. (OD not critical).
Sorry.

modnrod - if you want the centre pin machined, i am going to get my brother to machine mine, he runs this workshop, the managing director of it, so he can do it all for free if you want

http://www.bteng.com.au/metal-fabrication-**-processing/#mid

you can send it down to me or next time you are in perth just bring it by... we can figure something out, obviously for the machining and everything is free - maybe just postage if you send it it down!

I would be able to get them to make the washers for free too i am pretty sure.

Let me know what you think!!

I rekn it sounds great!.
I just dropped it off at the local engineering co, but I expect to pick it up next week undone.....not really their fault, it's a baby job and they're getting ready for seeding soon.
When I pick it up, I'll get it down to you! It won't be for a week, I start my next swing tomorrow.
Thanks man.