Modern Vespa

It's the least I can do to help out - especially considering that I was gifted this unit from the very very generous and helpful mike holland!! I am just paying it all forward

Gday all.
WOW! Doesn't life have the knack of getting in the way of stuff. Between 2 boys under 4, drastic changes to the house to deal with the summer temps, getting vege gardens going, etc, etc. I'm sure everyone knows all about it too.
Anyway, I have finally got all the performance testing on the new Dr Pulley variator kit completed. Now I don't have a Vespa GTS, I have an 2006 X8 250ie. Compared to a stock GTS250 it weighs 179 dry (GTS 148kg), and I also have fitted a 145/70R12 rear tyre, which is 7% taller, so it has 7% less torque at the tyre from starting, and I weigh 80kg. Basically the test results could be duplicated easily by a 2006 Vespa GTS250 rider who weighs in at around 135kg.......or maybe if the bike was 2-up!
Testing procedures to get the times consisted of averaging 5 runs, all done on the flat with minimal side winds only. The testing for the stock variator took place in 46*C temps with 30% humidity, the testing with DP parts the next day the temps were only 38*C but with 66% humidity, so the actual air quality would have been close to the same. I have tested the speedo against police radar checks, and also against my car, which is calibrated to less than 1kph off at 110kph (calibrated on rollers at a VDO dealership), so the speeds quoted are the actual speeds, not what the speedo reads. I used a hand-held stop-watch, hence doing 5 runs to get a reasonable average.
And finally, who really cares, hey? The important thing is the comparison on my bike alone using the exact same procedures. So, I don't wanna hear any crap about inaccuracies coz I didn't use GPS!
(As an aside, GPS isn't all you might think. I am an electronics and satellite tech, and I can take you to a hill where the GPS shows you are in North Atlantic, not West Australia, it can be badly affected by localised geomagnetics..........but that's another story!).

........................... Stock OEM variator.............Dr Pulley variator
Accel 0-50kph..................4.5secs...........................3.7secs
Accel 0-100kph...............14.0secs.........................12.3secs
Accel 40-80kph.................7.0secs...........................5.6secs
RPM @ 50kph......................4350..............................4700
RPM @ 80kph......................5200..............................6200
RPM @ 110kph....................6950...............................7050
Stall Revs........................2100-2550.......................3100 - up.
Coasting Speed...................22kph.............................23kph


TADA!!!! A few points........
* The stall revs are the revs off stop that the motor flashes to when you go WOT from idle. On the OEM variator, the revs go to 2100, then it takes a whole second until the revs suddenly jump up to the second rev mark. With the DP variator, it flashes to the rev mark, then revs smoothly from there all the way to 7000RPM by the time the bike has reached 60kph, then holds it all the way from there, no steps.
* The coasting speed is the speed on decel that the CVT loses drive, and starts to coast.
* I am using the supplied 15g Sliders, and I intend to keep them. For my bike and it's usage they are almost perfectly weighted. My cruising revs at 110kph is almost unchanged, so fuel economy should stay where it is (currently averaging 28-30km/L at steady highway speeds of 105-115kph). I think 13g sliders for a lighter GTS in the city would be perfect, the accel would be significantly improved, but at the expense of highway revs and therefore economy.

Now, the mods I had to make to get the thing to work. I have no rubbing at all, either under the variator or under the clutch. The mods I have made are simple, but also necessary. I think Dr Pulley have just been caught on the hop a bit with the belt rubbing on the Quasar motors. We also know that a Malossi belt on OEM parts will do it, as will DP sliders and non-OEM belts, as will some Polini set-ups, so they are not alone. However, the mods suggested below WILL FIX IT, and allow you to enjoy the performance.

I took 2mm off the centre pin, to 44mm from 46mm, and I also made up a washer that fit over the centre splines, 2.4mm thick, to prevent the variator sheaves coming together too close and forcing the belt out too far. In this spec, I sat on 130-135kph indicated (flat out basically) up hill and down dale all the way to my nearest town, then turned around and did it back again. That town is 23km away, so for nearly 50km I had the thing completely flat.
It does not rub, and top speed is unchanged.

All the pics are attached below.

Finally, is it worth $250? That's for you to decide, but quality doesn't come cheap. This stuff is VERY nice, look at the photos. It is REALLY smooth, quiet everywhere, and has made significant performance improvements.

It is staying on my bike.

Have a good one everyone.
Regards,
Dave

Excellent write-up!

And -- take it from an old lab guy -- a nice, well-thought-out test procedure considering your circumstances and resources.

Glad to hear it all worked out. Now that you have done the testing and refinements all that is left to do is see if Dr. Pulley adds to their range of bushing offerings.

Veery thorough write-up, Dave. It is only missing a bit of subjectivity - how smooth is it on take-off? Does the acceleration stretch your arms? The 40-80 figures look good, and the stall revs figures would indicate a very good take-off.

The coasting speed shouldn't be affected by the variator - it depends on when the clutch disengages, and is affected by the clutch springs and rear wheel revs.

Like any after-market variator, it is a good improvement on OEM. Ideally it needs to be compared with standard variator and sliders, Polini variator, Polini 9-roller variator etc., much like the comparison tests reported in Scootering magazine many years ago. I was comparing the DR.Pulley variator with my Polini, and with the couple if slider weights I tried in it I couldn't get the same aggressive acceleration that I have with the Polini. Maybe I needed to go lighter, but with 12 grams the revs seemed too high and top speed was impacted.

So stil waiting for more tests on a GTS250 or GTS300.

Mike

Gday Mike.
I'm not sure if the upgrade will tear your arms off. I am a dragbike rider, so possibly I may have different ideas about that compared to the average scoot rider? Also, my bike is much heavier than a GTS, it's like riding around with a pillion everywhere, so that does have a marked effect on accel off the line in particular, but due to the much improved aeros over the GTS the high speed performance should be better.
General performance? The DP variator is very smooth, at all revs. It will cruise happily with the 15g on my heavy scoot at very similar revs to stock, but a quick twist sees instant reactions, with revs about 1500rpm higher than stock to get it going from any speed. In gear accel in particular is much improved, and you can actually feel the accel now. With all that though, for my economical highway cruiser (which is what the bike is for me), it is just as relaxed-feeling as stock, I can give the bike 1/4 throttle and it will smoothly and quietly pull away off the mark up to 50-80kph with the minimum of fuss and noise, no rattling at all at idle or anywhere else.
I would imagine with a clutch unit to raise the take-off revs, combined with 13g sliders in light GTS, the variator would easily pop the wheel I think.
I have ridden a GTS with Malossi and pipe, and also a Sportcity 250 with Polini 6-roller, and I think the DP variator is their equal no doubt, once the rubbing has been sorted out. As an aside, I have had emails from Dr Pulley asking detailed questions about my results, so I know they are also doing a lot of further testing as we speak.
The difference in the units would not be so much in outright performance, I would expect this to be similar, but in the quality of the unit, and it's longevity. I know the Polini and Malossi seem to eat rollers a lot, I would think with the machined slider/roller ramps of the DP unit and with the machined quality of the belt ramp longevity of parts would be similar or better than OEM. Time will tell.

Great update! Thank you!

Especially on gts 300.

Just wanted to chime in with my results on a GTV 300. I ended up installing the 2mm shorter boss, the larger washer as posted above and went with the 15gr weights.

Previously I had installed Dr Pulley sliders with the stock variator.

The difference with the new variator is huge. The GTV now accelerates harder from any speed and my top end speed has remained unchanged.

Low speed riding is a lot smoother as well, definitely better throttle control.

Revs have increased slightly on wot, don't know by how much as the GTV does not have a tachometer.

Overall extremely happy with the results, no belt rubbing, harder acceleration, smother throttle control and can still hit 145 indicated.

That's good stuff mate! Excellent news!
It looks like we might have cracked it. I have 500km on mine now, still smooth as silk and running well. I had to ride into a 50kph blustery headwind the other day due to the cyclone up north, and to maintain 100kph into the really strong wind the revs sat between 7400-7800 the entire way, pulled through it well.
I still averaged my normal 28-30km/L too, no economy change.

What you guys are describing is what I hoped/expected to get out of this variator.

I would still like to see a report of a GTS250 with the variator installed as it comes out of the box as per the instructions, to see whether the belt rubbing I experienced has anything to do with my other mods.

Mike

Almost happened here, but being a fairly new wrencher, potentially disastrous results spooked me. Mr Wu did little to relax me.

I don't think so Mike. My 250ie is stock (exactly the same drivetrain as a 2006 GTS Vespa), but it definately would have rubbed. Taking 2mm off the centre pin, then adding the 2mm (2.4mm in my case) washer to it, gives the same distance apart at the top of the sheaves when they are closest together as the stock OEM, anything closer I think the belt would rub.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that it had nothing to do with your other mods... cause i have tried it on the Beverley and the Beo... both of them had the belt rubbing... I am going to fix the Pin this weekend.

Then it seems I must blame all my troubles on Dr.Pulley for not doing adequate testing with the Quasar motor drivetrain. I hope the Doctor takes your testing seriously, and does similar mods to their variator.

ike

This was my earlier point exactly. It was very nice of you guys to do Dr. Pulley's testing for them, but isn't it reasonable to expect manufacturers to do thorough testing of their own before selling a product as compatible with a particular model?

Paul, Mr Wu, or whatever nom de plume it is being used this week, just flat out lied. Period. He wrote and claimed complete testing. He jacked a vendor for 10 units and then end ran the pricing and shipping. Dr P may have a great product, but there's definitely a short when it comes to ethics.

I've been waiting to see if Dr Pulley is going to do the mods suggested to overcome the problems, as I'd be keen to give this variator a try once it's sorted.

Seems the V201503 variator has disappeared off the Dr Pulley website completely. Anyone have any updates?

David

Mine's a paperweight.

I'm happy with oem variator & belt with 8.5g DP slider weights.

nb

Mine is still on my X8 250ie.
It now has 3500km on it since my last report, I've had it in bits twice for oil and air filter services, and no sign of wear on sliders or variator sheave. I would be up for new rollers at the very least by now with either Malossi or Polini.
My experiences are all good.

OK, time for a quick update.
I know this thread is basically done for, but I thought I'd use it as a final update on how my DP parts are going in my 2006 X8 250ie (like a bloody heavy GTS250!).
This poor little scoot, it has to carry a load of 120kg of me and luggage down the highway at 7500-8000RPM, it has to pull a taller tyre that raises the gearing by 8%, and the only mods it has to help it along is a cupholder! If that's not bad enough, I also do 20km of good West Australian red dirt gravel weekly, and as you can see that shite gets in everywhere, the rollers and variator included. The extra wear this puts on components can't be underestimated.
So, here we are. These parts have all now done 6500km, including the OEM Piaggio outer pulley (which has more wear and deeper grooves than DP). The sliders were originally 16g, so they have lost 1g each in this time frame.

Overall, I can live with it. 8)

That's a lot of dirt and wear!

Can you add a finer filter to the transmission case air intake? That would help enormously - but you'd need to clean it regularly.

Gday Jim.
Yep, going on this service. This year has been drier than most, but still, that's only 3000km worth of dust.
I already have a Finer Filter sock over the air filter box inlet as an extra, so the inlet is sparkling clean. This airbox on the X8 works very well too.
I should really get a CRF or WR, but where's the fun in that?

So I wanted to post an update here on my experience with the variator. I was one of the original testers here and in 2019 I was riding along the freeway when all of a sudden I had no power going to my wheels.

I pulled over and got the bike towed to a mechanic, the mechanic took apart the bike and told me that my variator had stripped the splines on the crank shaft, this essentially meant my scooter was a write off. I took him at his word and went and purchased a second hand Vespa GTS.

I'd been riding that ever since while my original vehicle sat in disrepair reminding me of pushing mods too far.

Well about 6 weeks ago my beloved Vespa was stolen and I'd let the insurance lapse as Covid shut downs have been especially hard on my company and I wasn't getting paid for most of this year so I could keep paying my staff… anyways my beloved yellow GTS was gone and I didn't have any money to buy a new vehicle. Being reduced to desperation my friend, a retired engineer suggested he have a good at repairing my Scarabeo.

I had it towed to his place and he went to work. About 6 hours in he emailed me to say that my crank shaft was done, the Dr Pulley variator has actually been stripped!!! Ughh

So long story short, we got a stock variator, and a few other bits and bobs and put it all together and replaced fluids etc, got it over the pits and it's all good and going strong.

In his diagnosis he had also mentioned that the clutch was looking like it needed replacing soon too but we were reluctant to replace that without getting it registered first.

Well after riding the revived Scarabeo for 3 weeks it broke down again, this time the clutch exploded.

I'm not sure if the Dr Pulley variator damaged the clutch in any way but just thought I'd mention it. I'll post pics of the clutch and if people are interested of the variator too.

So all that to say, I'm not sure of the Dr Pulley variator is up to snuff in the quality of its metal. And to warn owners to keep an eye on it.

That said I'm about to put sliders in my stock variator when I replace the clutch…

Mr.jiminytrickit,

Through the broken parts (photo posted,) it seems is component of Driven pulley, right or wrong ?
And you also mentioned Dr.Pulley variator might cause the damage of clutch, would you explain which part code is this variator ( www.drpulley.co ) ?

Regards,
Dr.Pulley

The Variator itself was the one you sent to Mike Holland back in the day - he couldn't get it dialed in the way he wanted to sent it across to me to try to figure it out. I spent quite a bit of time on it. My old username on here was bunnybash. I posted my results in this thread.

The parts that I posted pics of are the Driven Pulley yup, not sure why it failed, but it might have something to do with the Variator - but maybe not. Couldn't say for sure.

Anyways I loved the variator till it got stripped by the crank shaft... the splines on the inner circles got worn down so the the crank shaft just spun around without it gripping the variator.

edit: I was using the Dr Pulley Sliders too.