Modern Vespa

Hello guys

Sure you get this all the time but i need some expert advice. I bought a vespa 90 Racer about 5 years ago and have only just got back into riding. I thought i would look up the serial numbers just to check everything was legit. Frame number is fine (turns out its a 1972 model) however having problems with engine number. It appears to read V9SS2M (6862). When i looked up racers numbers are supposed to start from above 7000. I also couldn't find any scooter model with this kind of number? Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Welcome to MV

This thread has been moved to the Not So Modern Forum. That's where the folks who are shifty Vespa enthusiasts tend to hang out, giving you a better shot at a quick answer. NSM is home to all shifty Vespas, regardless of year and model.

Okay thanks. How do i get there?

Frame number charts are not accurate for engine numbers.

Piaggio has never published a model or year reference for engine numbers, only frame numbers. while frame numbers and engine numbers follow the same basic formula and some parallels can be drawn, you can not definitively find out anything about an engine using a frame number chart.

while i am not as familiar with 90 racer numbers, i can speculate that it is probably simiar to how there were no engines stamped VSX, and all VSX frames came with engines stamped VSE.

Okay thanks Rob. I used a common site that claims to decipher engine number too but couldn't find my particular number. I know it's important for the engine number and frame number to match so wanted to make sure they did!

it isn't.....
Piaggio never matched engine and Frame numbers. They are always different.

frames were stamped sequentially as they are made, engines were stamped sequentially as they are made, and somewhere farther down the assembly line an engine from one pile is randomly put in a frame from another pile.

I did some investigation for you.
I looked up V9SS2M (8862) and it came up as a 1972 Vespa 90R Motor.
I have a feeling the first number you read as a 6 may actually be an 8.
Maybe look a little more close and see if that is the case.

pics pics pics pics!!!

What he said!

ha ha posting that cost me half a target. think I'm owed some pics now

Keep in mind, this was cross-referenced from a frame number chart and is not necessarily accurate.
Piaggio has never published a cross reference to cross a motor number to a model or year.

According to scooterhelp.com the Vespa 90R model as well as other models do in fact share the same serial prefix for both the frame and engine. I don't think the OP provided the number for the frame since it checked out, and only provided the number for the engine. I realize that the numbers following the serial prefix would not match up due to the assembly process.

some do. some don't.
one of the pitfalls of trying to identify an engine using a frame chart, as all of the exceptions are not really well documented. some of these are incorporated into the lookup scooterhelp does, and some... well, they aren't.

for example,
VSX frames got VSE engines
VNX frames got VNL3 engines up to the VNX2 series.
(however, VLX frames got VLX engines)
early 50's allstates got some wierd case numbers that don't corespond to their frame number, nor any other frame ever produced. (VAN and VA32 comes to mind)
there are others, but these are the most commonly seen.

this can make tying an engine to a model via the prefix troublesome, especially on less commonly seen models.

it's also known that generally more engines were produced than frames in a prefix series, and over time this causes the guessed year of an engine from a frame chart to 'drift' in regards to the frame number it actually shipped with.
Frame numbers are actually VIN numbers, bare replacement frames did not get numbers, although complete replacement engines did get numbers. bare cases did not get numbers, except in some rare instances where they got a unique prefix that does not correspond to what that engine would commonly be prefixed with, nor any frame was ever prefixed with.

in some cases, the same prefix engine was used for two different frame prefixes, increasing the 'drift' further.

this is what makes accuracy of the year off of a frame chart for an engine troublesome; frames only got numbers if they had an engine in them. engines got a number from the prefix series regardless of if they had a frame produced for them or not.

Thanks for the clarification, I understand what you are saying now.

also, specific to this model-

If i remember properly there were some 90ss and 90 racers that were shipped as pieces to new zealand and assembled locally to get around customs duties. these were assigned vins by the new zealand goverment, and would not have increased the frame number count, but the engines may have been shipped whole, stamped with engine numbers.

i could be wrong on that, it may have only been ss90's, but i seem to remember hearing about that talking to somone down there when i was sourcing BSA sunbeam parts. those were also imported there as parts, but did not sell well and the batch was never completed. it's the only good source known in the world for some of the stuff for those.

I'll post some up this afternoon guys!

Sorry, struggling to get my hands on a camera! Basically the number definitely starts with a 6! Its a red 1972 racer in very good condition (Starts first few kicks and immaculate cosmetics) Can anyone give me some more info on them? I know they are rare but thats about it! Not much info available on the net. Cheers

Maybe call one of the scooter restoration shops on this list.
The Big List of Vintage Scooter Shops and Parts Suppliers

Thats the funniest thing I've read on here today, so far anyway.

how fast one of those little 90 racers go? they a hot factory model like a et3 or a t5?

Hey guys here are some pics as promised. Still would love more info! Engine number is definitely 6862. Would appreciate your thoughts.

Love the color!

that's an absolute beauty. one of the nicest scoots if ever had the pleasure of seeing

Nice scoot! Thanks for sharing!
So confused about the engine number though.
Really wish I could help you get to the bottom of it.
Not sure how often or if the mail is even checked, but it is worth a shot.
Maybe try emailing the guy who runs scooterhelp.com and explain your situation.
info@scooterhelp.com

My good mate is from NZ and he says that the Vespas there came without frame numbers stamped, but did have a 'dog tag' rivetted to the body. Engine numbers as per normal I think. They were required to have a certain percentage of NZ-made content so there are some differences. One was that the ss90 didn't come with the centre spare wheel there.

i hadnt heard of a 90racer before

Basically a normal V90 with an ss90 engine and thats about it........ and rare-ish yeah. Nice little scoot tho, the ss engines go well for what they are too

V9SS1M-6862 doesn't show up. Can you explain your reasoning so I can understand? Or is the same type of deal Rob Hodge was saying above?