Modern Vespa

Seriously this is awesome. I don't even have a smallie is this is great. Thanks for taking all this time. It may be super handy in the future.

As suspected, nothing like that with mine. I would guess your new harness would help solve that problem since your old wiring situation seemed to be wuite a mish nash of random teplacements and fixed... unless you have a voltage issue from your stator or stock regulator. That said, I really have no idea what I'm talking about. Electrics is near the bottom of my comfort zone.

More progress over the last several days. Crank now installed into the clutch side half, along with the primary, lock washer and the crank nut (fitted loosely for now). So much easier to fit this crank into the bearing than the P200 crank!



View from the reverse, with the axle (frozen) popped into the rear wheel bearing:



Had a one-piece bearing on the flyside of the crank before and have been told that that is a nightmare to deal with -- separating the halves was not easy at all -- so I am going with a two piece. Pounding the outer race into the flyside half involved smacking my hand, HARD:



Xmas tree popped in easily. Had to clean out bits of kickstart buffer that had disintegrated -- fortunately it was just rubber!

Fitting the kickstart quadrant after fitting new kickstart buffers:



And the kickstarter gear is installed with the dished washer and spring (remember the circlip on the clutch basket first!):



Waiting on the correct third gear from ScootersWest, so I decided to disassemble the front end. Steering bearings and retainer rings off:



And off comes the fork:



Lower bearing cleaned/greased and ready to be reinstalled later:



Fork on the bench to remove the wheel:



Wheel off -- still struggling to get the bolt on the side of the fender off. It is really frozen on there:



Enough for tonight. Hopefully my third gear & new wiring harness arrive tomorrow!

Last edited by nomadwarmachine on Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:27:08 +0000; edited 3 times

Double check the primary crank gear. pretty sure the taller shoulder goes towards the bearing.

You are kicking some ass. Every time you post it makes me want to get out there and work on mine.

Tried fitting it that way first, but it looked wrong and did not match up flush with clutch basket. Of course, my lo-res photo during disassembly is not clear. Will look again tonight and confirm.

yes, some SERIOUS ass. great thread. makes my heart happy. primavera et3 will be my next vespa.

Thanks for all of the feedback from everybody. This project has been a lot of fun so far. I have all of the parts I need to finish, but I have been busy at work lately. A couple of quick questions for the gurus out there:

(1) I have a Polini top end with a first overbore and the Polini exhaust you see in the photos. What is the correct piston ring gap for this setup?

(2) Same question for the timing. How many degrees BTDC? I prefer that this motor last for a long time and do not want to over-advance.

(3) Same question for the spark plug. Looks like I have the stock carb with stock jetting. Might go to a 24mm down the road, but will stick with what I have for now.

Thanks again!

*waves hands* abracadabra your ring gap is set!

all kidding aside, i like to run about 12~15 but 10 is a little on the tight end and you'll need to watch the run in and 20 is on the loose end. most smallie kits call for 16 or 17 BTDC, 18 or 19 would be okay but you may lose a little of the punch off the line and low end response. i'd run a B7 when it's cold out and around town and then switch to a B8 or B9 for summer and/or WFO faffing about (rally riding).

-g

Last edited by greasy125 on Tue, 12 Feb 2013 20:12:50 +0000; edited 1 time

Awesome. Thanks!!

More photos on the way from the installation of the new wiring harness. Went smoothly, but I am not clear on where I connect:

(1) the black wire (presumably ground) with a solder end that runs into the rear of the bike; or

(2) the blue wire with a solder end that is joined to the headlight (?) spade connector. (The other solder ends in the handgrip branch clearly go to the switch, but this one is in the headlight branch of the harness).

Thanks!

Further update. Harness arrived yesterday and I finally got a chance to set about fixing the wiring on this bike. But first, I indulged my vanity and cleaned up the chrome trim on the floor:



Still had the rear brake cable & housing to swap out. The cables on this bike were so battered that I could easily believe they were 38 years old. Just to get a clean start, I replaced all of the inners/housings, including the rear brake (which was a pain to remove -- just pull!):



Rear brake mechanism:



Time to start feeding the harness down through the steering column:



Fed it down through the column first and pulled out through the bottom of the column (already had the end pulled in halfway by the wire fed into the body when I removed the old harness):



Success! Harness in the bike and wired through to the rear light:



Anybody know where I connect this black wire with the solder end?



Back to the engine. Gears installed with the spacer and the circlip. Clearance is within spec:



At first I thought I had a giant gap between the spacer and the circlip. Turns out I had third and fourth installed backwards. Now all of the gears line up with the shift cross and are properly spaced -- yes, neutral works:



And I checked the primary gear. Shoulder faces the crank and the gears mate flush:



This weekend I reassemble the motor at last. Questions for today:

(1) Anybody know where I connect that black solder-end in the rear of the harness?

(2) Same question re the blue solder-end wire in the headlight branch of the harness.

Thanks!

That black wire needs a connector, but connects to one of those two screws that holds your regulator on.

Oh, the blue one goes to your speedometer. On mine the wire has a little cupped end that fits in a slot on the "cap" that holds the "fuse-type" bulb in place.
It took me a while to deduce that since my original speedo was all jacked up and missing the cap. Luckily Kyle's Scooter shop in Dallas has a new old stock speedo in stock.

You're doing a heck of a job Nomad! Great to watch!

Thanks! More photos to come soon. Found a spare oil seal in the bottom of my parts box. SKF 24 35 7. Looks like a flyside seal for my P200 -- can anybody confirm?

Or here is a (much) better question.

How many oil seals in total are in a 1976 ET3 motor? I have installed a clutch, flyside, and rear wheel seal. Are there more than three? (I think a flyside seal for my P200 fell into the box, but want to be sure).

More progress this weekend. With the correct third gear installed, I finally reassembled the cases:



Took a little wiggling of the cases and turning the rear axle, but they went together really easily -- love that two-piece flyside bearing:



And in goes the flyside seal. Pressed it in a little too far -- maybe half a mm past flush -- but everything still turns fine:



Then I torqued down the clutch and crank nuts. Used a couple of wooden blocks with a screw driver through the rod to keep everything from turning -- I know, I know, a penny will work too:



Then I cleaned up the clutch cover, which was a complete mess -- Motion Pro spring puller came in very handy here:



With the clutch back together, I proceeded to sand the mating surfaces of the cylinder/head on glass. There was a major leak apparent upon disassembly, so I wanted to get everything matched. Used some valve grinding compound to lap in the head:



Copper gasket on the base, and the piston installed with the rings. Filed the rings down to a .012 inch gap.



Getting the barrel fitted was a paiin, in large part because the rings kept falling out of line with the pins, but it eventually slipped on (flywheel installed temporarily to help turn the crank)



Spent way too much time today getting the clutch cover installed. Had to helocoil one thread and then I cross-threaded a bolt into another (always remember to take your regular breaks!). Here I am installing the Helicoil:



Finally done with the clutch cover:



Stator installed, and flyside Woodruff key going in:



Flywheel installed and torqued down.



Filthy rear wheel backing plate with old seal:



Cleaned and greased rear wheel backing plate with new seal:



Exhaust header installed (sanded and painted with VHT hi-temp paint):



Cylinder cowl and intake w/bellows installed:



Hallelujah!



Enough for today. Still need to install headset and connect the cabling. Questions for today:

(1) How many oil seals are there in an ET3 motor? I believe there are three, but I found a fourth in my parts box. It is probably a spare flyside seal for my P200, but I want to be sure.

(2) Any brilliant tips for installing the gear shift cables? I have heard that this is hell to to by oneself.

This is such a great thread to follow! I'm learning a ton! If I had a garage or other workspace I would love to take a crack at a project like this - though at present I lack 90% of the knowledge needed! Sorry I can't answer any of your questions. Just wanted to say thank you for making the time for all the photos, comments, and everything else nomadwarmachine!

Hmmm. I'm curious. what have you heard? Are you referring to running the cables through the frame or to connecting them and getting them adjusted at the gear selector?

I haven't dealt with the smallie selector yet, but running them can't be any harder than running the wiring loom... I hope.

...and nice detailed photos BTW. Good thread.

How about Dark Red, like Radicchio?

BTW I live in LA too.

Can I borrow some of your tools? ( ill bring them right back) .

Either you got your intake bellow on backwards or I got mine on backward.

Yours is backwards.





Last edited by astromags on Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:21:38 +0000; edited 1 time

I think the drawing may be backwards, in several places, but that gets into a divisive topic so install it the way you like.

Well crap. If the official seevice manual doesn't get it right, where can one find the correct way?

What else appears to be backward? I was planning on using this manual to help me get it "right".

The position of the felt. There are several threads on it and both denominations are firm in their beliefs.

I remember that thread, now that you mention it.

yeah, you talking to the guy who thinks the felt goes on before the collar LOL

I installed the boot in the same way that it was previously installed -- the tapered end seemed to match the intake throat perfectly and the wide mouth seems designed to keep road splash from entering the body.

I presume that the felt collor goes in followed by the carb body? In other words, can I install the felt collar once the intake is already installed?

Astro, I am referring to connection/adjustment. Running them is a snap -- I used some bailing wire connected to the end of each. They pulled through with no trouble.

Thanks for the compliments, everybody, and thank you for the tips!

I install the clip on the collar such that the end points land in the slit on the flyside. I then install the bellow onto the collar reverse of any drawing I've ever seen of it. I then install the bellow/collar assembly into the frame such that the bellow is on the engine side. With the engine pivot bolt installed I offer up the engine such that the manifold slides into the collar. Once I have the rear shock bolt in I then grab the collar from the inside of the scooter frame and help in onto the manifold until I hear the wire ring click over the ears. When I need to lower the engine down for service the bellow and collar stays with the frame. Having only one ear engage the ring clip make this quite easy.

...and I'm the guy that has less smallie experience than anyone on this thread. Lol. I rely on the expertise of you guys, and until now, the shop manuals.

I think I understand what your saying in your explanation above. I'll have to revisit that when I reassemble mine. That said I referred back to my disassembly photos, and everything I had matches the diagram(for whatever that's worth). I guess if it works either way then no big deal, but this will drive me crazy not knowing for sure. Lol.

three thousand words


intake free from collar/bellow. motor swung down. Note position of felt ring, cough ahem.

collar/bellow installed in frame. Motor swung down

bellow/collar in frame. Motor swung up. collar over intake but not snapped in yet


Last edited by scootermarc69 on Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:51:52 +0000; edited 1 time

four thousand more words


motor swung up, intake clipped in.

nice fit of bellow to cylinder shroud

A tight fit with the engine hanging. I get in the humping position to put weight on the rear shock and get some clearance to get that clamp on

Shoot. I skipped this one. Intake clipped into collar/bellow

And the key to all this is the ring clip ends line up with one of the slots in the collar so you can unclip it easily with the carb off. It should only clip one ear of the intake. hope that makes sense.

I succumbed to peer pressure and flipped the intake boot on the carb. The lip on the bell obviously is supposed to fit the hole in the frame, and the only way it could do that otherwise is if the bell were INSIDE of the frame.

Flipping the boot initially left me with a sleeve covering the intake on the inside of the frame. That made it impossible to get the locking ring around the intake:



This actually looks right to me (with the rubber sealing the joint, but there is NO WAY to get the lockring on around the rubber:



So I really shoved the boot back on the intake and that cleared enough room for me to get the ring on:



Closeup without the ring (sorry, but a little blurry):



Is this seriously how this is supposed to fit together? With a naked slit intake sleeve and a big metal ring around it? That seems like a terrible design, but I am curious if this is correct according to the other smallie/ET3 owners.

These are great. Thank you! And it looks exactly like what I ended up with, except of course I have not yet installed the felt washer!! Do I really have to drop my motor again to pop it on? I don't see how a felt washer can help seal anything.

Seeing the photos of it installed this way definitely makes more sense.

In regards to the "seal" I read somewhere to use some type of grease or Hylomar (whatever that is LOL) to fill those slits in for an ever better seal.

I'm still confused about where the felt ring goes.

So what are everyone's thoughts on greasing or not greasing the felt ring? Scootermarc's appears to be ungreased.

Based on what I'm reading on scootrally and smallframeforum "greased seems to be the most popular way to go of course the argument for all of this continues.

Apparently that's still up for debate:

http://scootrally.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1197&hilit=felt+washer

Sometimes you gotta just look at what you have in your hands and see what makes sense.
1. there is about 5mm beyond the slits of the carb for it too bottom out and seal onto the intake.

2. if you put the felt ring on immediatly prior to the carb you loose at least two of those 5mm

3. If you put it on as illustrated, prior to fitting the collar/bellow, it acts to keep engine grime from working up between the collar and intake.

4. greased or not, it will become "greased", just like everything down there.

5. I personally have built up Yamabond semidrying into the slits on the carb for good measure.

6. A little lube on the ID and OD of the carb spigot makes it slip on better.

7. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN CLAMP!!!! the four tines of the carb spigot will crack. Well, one of them will. You won't know it til you take the carb of again. it doesn't need to be much more than cinched. Trust me on this one.

I agree with this. Will disassemble the intake (again) tonight to install the felt washer as shown in the diagram.

Should point out that I actually have two felt washers in my parts box, so I could put them in both places and forget about this debate.