@alanmac avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'74 Rally, '72 Sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1147
Location: Melbourne, London, Durham NC
 
Molto Verboso
@alanmac avatar
'74 Rally, '72 Sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1147
Location: Melbourne, London, Durham NC
UTC quote
Be interesting to see it and his calculations
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Addicted
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I wonder if he'll share? Looks pretty nice.
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How to check if a surface is true
Spread some non-drying prussian blue on a sheet of plate glass and rub the part a few times in a figure 8. The prussian blue will only rub off onto any high spots.

There are two types of prussian blue, or engineer's blue, drying, also called marking blue, and non-drying. The drying type can be applied to a part for scribing high contrast lines, or applied to a part to be lapped so you can check your progress. The non-drying type can be used as described above or used to check the fit between two parts.

Plate glass is very useful because float glass is one of the flatest things you can buy. Not only can it be used for checking trueness, it can be used for lapping with some lapping compound/valve grinding compound or a sheet of wet/dry sandpaper lubed with water or light oil. I've also heard a scrap of marble or granite counter top will work as well.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9513
Location: Nashville

143 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9513
Location: Nashville

143 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Patrick OopsClunkThud did a really nice one shown in his thread. Not sure that he's sharing however. https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2065929#2065929
He posted a link to it in his Squish Gap Thread. Don't break anything, as it looks to be world-editable!

I'm still wrapping my head around all the measurements required, but I'd say he's about three orders of magnitude (at least!) ahead of me, in that I'm still reading Gordon Jennings and figuring out the set of questions to ask, whereas he not only knows what to ask, but is also able to answer them and then built tools to do it.
@scoot109 avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Hooked
@scoot109 avatar
1980 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
Replacing Battery ring terminal
This isn't a shortcut or secret tip, but just something I had to deal with yesterday. I broke the positive battery lead while swapping out my rear wheel and spare wheel.

The following YouTube video, plus a trip to the local Harbor Freight and I had it fixed within a few minutes.

Plus, I was able to replace one of the female terminal connectors to the neutral switch. Now the all-important neutral indicator light works!

Bought a set of various connectors for about $5, and a crimper/stripper for $4. The crimper/stripper is not the greatest, but did the job.

Positive battery terminal after replacing the ring terminal
Positive battery terminal after replacing the ring terminal
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Addicted
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UTC quote
Explanation of JASO M345 AKA JASO Fx, API TC, and ISO L-EGx
Quote:
JASO M345 is a quality classification standard for two stroke engine oils for engines of Japanese origin. It was introduced by the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) in 1994 as JASO M345-93 with the quality levels JASO FA, JASO FB and JASO FC - with FC setting the highest standard. It was revised in 2004 as JASO M345:2004 which discontinued the FA level, and introduced the new JASO FD level - the FD level supersedes JASO FC as the highest rating.

The different quality levels set requirements with regards to properties such as minimum lubrication, minimum detergency, maximum smoke and maximum deposits. An two stroke engine oil is granted the official JASO seal if it has been independently tested. The seal is a rectangle; in the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number, and the lower three quarters will just have the letters Fx.

Japeneese motorcycle manufacturers found the limits demanded by the API TC specifications too loose. Oils meeting the API TC standard still produced excessive smoke and could not prevent exhaust blocking. Therefore the Japanese Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel (JASO) introduced the following specifications:

JASO FA (Obsolete)
Original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FB
Increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
JASO FC
Lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD (Added 2004)
Same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
I believe JASO FC and FD are allowed to be labeled as 'smokeless'.

So FB, FC, and FD have the same lubricity and initial torque requirements, but FC and FD have lower exhaust system deposits and smoke, and higher detergency. FD has much higher detergency than FB or FC, plus a lower allowed amount of sulfated ash, .18% vs .25%.

So I guess it could be broken down as FB=dirty, FC=clean, FD=very clean.

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV0412.pdf
Quote:
API Two-Cycle Motor Oil Specifications
Spec Status Description

TA Obsolete Proposed classification for two-stroke engine oils required for extremely-small engines, typically less than 50 cc. Engine Tests for this classification were under preparation when the Coordinating European Council (CEC) withdrew support for this category.

TB Obsolete Proposed classification for two-stroke engine oils required for the engines of motor-scooters and other highly-loaded small engines, typically between 50 and 200 cc. The test sponsor no longer requires this category, and the classification has been abandoned.

TC Current Designed for various high-performance engines, typically between 200 and 500 cc, such as those on motorcycles and snowmobiles, and chain saws with high fuel-oil ratios - but not outboards. Two-cycle engine oils designed for API Classification TC address ring-sticking, pre-ignition and cylinder scuffing problems.

TD Obsolete Designed for water-cooled outboard engines, this classification used the identical engine test to that in the National Marine Manufacturers association (NMMA) TC-W category. API TD has been superseded, and is no longer accepted by the NMMA, who now recommend oils meeting the requirements of TC-W3 for water-cooled outboard engines.
Quote:
API-TC is a certification for two-stroke oils, awarded by the American Petroleum Institute. It is given after the product passes through stringent tests that determine the level of detergent performance, dispersion, and anti-oxidation. The highest level of certification for two-stroke oil is the "TC+"-series, equivalent: JASO FD / ISO L-EGD
I believe API periodically updates the TC spec rather than creating a new Tx spec. So currently TC is about equal to JASO FC or ISO-L-EGC
Quote:
ISO Two-Cycle Oil Specifications

During the mid-90s it became clear that the JASO Specifications cannot satisfy the requirements of the modern European two-stroke engines. The ISO standards listed below were developed to address this shortcoming. Their basis is the relevant JASO standard + they require an additional 3h Honda test to be run to quantify piston cleanliness and detergent effect.

ISO-L-EGB
Same requirements as JASO FB + test for piston cleanliness.
ISO-L-EGC
Same requirements as JASO FC + test for piston cleanliness.
ISO-L-EGD
Same requirements as JASO FD + test for piston cleanliness + detergent effect.
In General
In General
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
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@pdxjim avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
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Posts: 1866
 
Molto Verboso
@pdxjim avatar
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
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UTC quote
If your turn indicator sockets have those goofy BAU15s bases with offset bayonet pins meant for amber bulbs and you're wanting to use clear bulbs, instead of forcing in a clear bulb or filing one of its pins off, just take a piece of fine steel wool to the amber paint sprayed onto the bulbs. It comes right off with a little elbow grease and the fine steel wool won't scratch the glass. Presto! Clear bulbs with an offset base!
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
Correct gear stack assembly
I know this one has been covered before, but the pic below makes it kind of foolproof. This is a Lusso gearbox but I guess it relates to the others?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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LML speedo cable fix
Found this on Modern Buddy, from LMLOCGB, originally from Tasso.
@veloce_vulture avatar
UTC

Hooked
Tuk Tuk.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 448
Location: Hawaii
 
Hooked
@veloce_vulture avatar
Tuk Tuk.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 448
Location: Hawaii
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Patrick OopsClunkThud did a really nice one shown in his thread. Not sure that he's sharing however. https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2065929#2065929
He posted a link to it in his Squish Gap Thread. Don't break anything, as it looks to be world-editable!

I'm still wrapping my head around all the measurements required, but I'd say he's about three orders of magnitude (at least!) ahead of me, in that I'm still reading Gordon Jennings and figuring out the set of questions to ask, whereas he not only knows what to ask, but is also able to answer them and then built tools to do it.
I wouldn't bow down to that church too far, it's obsolete information until someone takes into account the changes in fuel technology pioneered by Shell and Ferrari (liquid cooled). Oxygenated fuel really is, what it says it is.
Add a catalyst to low grade fuel and call it macaroni, basically. Porsche is the only manufacturer that did research to compensate for this reality since they are the only manufacturers that had a big enough customer base of high performance air cooled vehicles.
It's sad to see a neat hobby like scooters die a tragic death to misinformation.
But die, it's doing. cannon ball run be damned, lol.
Same problem in the VW community, meh.
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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blackbart wrote:
The crude diagram below is how mine is wired. All AC, the tail and headlamp burn whenever the engine is running. No turning off headlights or tail lights. Not too bad to return to original. No extra holes required.

To join two pairs of stator wires together, I cut two dividers in the P engine junction box. If you have a two-yellow wire P stator, let me know. Must be phased properly.

Red, green, and black go to the front.

Viewing the stator as a battery makes it easier to understand. Hot and ground wire. Feed hot to one side of a switch, other side of switch to light. Hot to tail light, no switch.

Yellow wire from handlebar switch to tail lamp cut underneath tank. Hot tied there, straight to tail light.

Conversion switch on right below. Horn is grounded by attachment screw via copper strip on reverse side. Still quacks like a duck.

Parts, available from various suppliers:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/files/catalogue/index.html#/851

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/light+switch+conversion+for_60092900

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/181637

http://www.trailtech.net/7003-ac01

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Nice! A friend who want's to bin the battery on his P might like this w/ a few modifications. I see you use the same TrailTech adjustable regulator I like. Here's another batteryless conversion for older two yellow stators which worked again today on Morrie's V90 after finally getting it all hooked up right & replacing a busted switch: Eliminating the Battery. If lites still don't work try hooking the stray green wire into the red power coming out of the regulator - Morrie did that & boom, they worked.
@oopsclunkthud avatar
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Banned
3:5
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Posts: 8934
Location: San Francisco
 
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:
Anyone ever find this? Pretty nice gearing calc, better than the scooterhelp one. In French, but pretty self explanatory.
http://gearingcalc.free.fr/
I think that one's pretty well known, but another link certainly doesn't hurt :). I've built something comparable in a spreadsheet for Excel & LibreOffice, too. No pre-sets in mine, but you can save it locally rather than having to re-type custom gearings every time you use it.

Gearing Calculator, Excel
Gearing Calculator, LibreOffice

I'd like to add air resistance/drag calc's so you can estimate necessary power output to actually drive the scoot for a given gearing and speed. Ideally, this would let people estimate whether their gearing is going to be too long for a given motor or how much power they need to tune for with a given gear stack.

Unfortunately, my physics are a little too rusty to do much more than borrow someone else's calc's and build them into my sheets.
Patrick OopsClunkThud did a really nice one shown in his thread. Not sure that he's sharing however. https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2065929#2065929
here's a link to my gearing calculator:

https://www.icloud.com/numbers/000E1AWevFfUX-MPZObG3UoAA#Oops-Gearing

It's not all that user friendly but I've added notes and highlighted the cells that should be modified in green.

as with the squish, save off your own copy if you want to really mess with it, but feel free to adjust numbers to see the impact.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
here's a link to my gearing calculator:

https://www.icloud.com/numbers/000E1AWevFfUX-MPZObG3UoAA#Oops-Gearing

It's not all that user friendly but I've added notes and highlighted the cells that should be modified in green.

as with the squish, save off your own copy if you want to really mess with it, but feel free to adjust numbers to see the impact.
Cheers Patrick!
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Well I found the formula to figure out what size capacitor you need to smooth (filter) the voltage ripple out of a rectifier if you want to go full DC batteryless.

V(r)=V(L/(f・C))
V(r) equals ripple voltage drop in mV, this number should be under 100mV
V is voltage out of the rectifier, 12V in our application
L is load in amps, I used the stator wattage divided by voltage as worse case scenario
f is ripple frequency, which is input AC frequency multiplied by 2
C is capacitence in farads

I don't know the frequency the stator would put out at idle, anyone know.
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5078
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5078
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
Stolen from member NOla John regarding peening floor rail rivets-

A cool tip is to get one of those refrigerator magnets that you get with new phone books that usually have lawyer advertising on them and cut a small hole in the center. stick it to the scoot when you are peening so you don't damage the paint with a miss swing.
@joep avatar
UTC

Hooked
05 PX, 80P200, 63Li150, to many others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 410
Location: New Orleans, LA
 
Hooked
@joep avatar
05 PX, 80P200, 63Li150, to many others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 410
Location: New Orleans, LA
UTC quote
7mm ratcheting wrench welded to the tip of an old screw driver for adjusting the mix screw on an electric start engine.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
Way cool! Clap emoticon Makes you want to adjust your mixture.

We need a new home made tool page. I made a quicky crank pusher for smallie motors but it's a lot cruder than Joe's little helper.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
This is clearly for a Lambretta, but it's a great idea to use here. Found this on a facebook group, by Scooturismo Motorscooters Ltd.
Quote:
Here's a tool I've made to effectively skim, in this case, a Lambretta rear brake drum using stuff most of us have around and should have probably thrown out long ago
Google "Lambretta brake skimming tool" and you'll find images of the original tool as well as a number of a well made one an owner fabricated in the US. I had dreamed up a clever adjustable tool using a rotarty grinder, but then I came up with this very simple and effective solution. First I notch through the drum and brake surface of a non-servicable drum with an angle grinder. It needn't be pretty, but straight and level is nice.
[URL=http://s803.photobucket.com/user/cuckoobird4/media/13511016_608703775958510_213466139793367133_n_zpsc0xxrs52.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

From the inside, you can see I've cut through the brake surface, and then some. This is a very crappy old hub, so worn that it is in fact 2mm greater in OD in comparison to a new hub, which is just right for my purpose.

[URL=http://s803.photobucket.com/user/cuckoobird4/media/13507088_608703975958490_8442219208680614004_n_zpswqx1eskj.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

I had a 120grit floor sanding belt on hand whish works well for this purpose because it's durable and resistant to tearing, consistently thick (c.1mm) and doesn't shed sand particles, not over the duration of this task anyway. Plus, I can cut it into long strips the width of a brake shoe.

[URL=http://s803.photobucket.com/user/cuckoobird4/media/13537694_608703912625163_3960703486529395425_n_zpssrxfvepf.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

I've installed the hub and slid my strip of sand paper in through the slot so that the abrasive is now laying over the shoes, about half way around the hub. The brake tension is off now and I'm able to spin the hub freely. Add some tension to the brake with the adjuster, spin the hub with the sand paper, and I start to knock off the high spots. Keep going, sanding, adjusting, sanding, adjusting, and eventually I have perfectly radiused brake shoes.

[URL=http://s803.photobucket.com/user/cuckoobird4/media/13529151_608703895958498_5312463447235943500_n_zps3iv4e5o1.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

Easy Breezy Beautiful. Round flat brake shoes. Dare I say it feels almost as good as a Vespa rear brake?

[URL=http://s803.photobucket.com/user/cuckoobird4/media/13521909_608703935958494_7489304365509469838_n_zpsofr12l8c.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
It was too hot to work of the floor of the garage today (104 degrees in Fresno), and I don't have a motorcycle lift so I went to Plan B. It worked fine but I think I'm going to have to come up with a Plan C for winter.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@vader19 avatar
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Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
 
Mr. Clean
@vader19 avatar
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
It was too hot to work of the floor of the garage today (104 degrees in Fresno), and I don't have a motorcycle lift so I went to Plan B. It worked fine but I think I'm going to have to come up with a Plan C for winter.
Best post of the summer! 8)
@kyvelis avatar
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Addicted
79' p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 573
Location: greece
 
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@kyvelis avatar
79' p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 573
Location: greece
UTC quote
Front suspension arm bearing replacement.
This is how i ended up replacing the front suspension arm bearings, pivot pin, suspension arm and front wheel axle.

First the learning curve.

Position your Vespa p125x on center stand with wooden spacer underneath, remove wheel nut cover followed by piened wheel nut, Remove front wheel assy. remove the 2 bolts and nuts at the bottom of the shock assy. remove two nuts at the top shock mount. Dremel the end of the needle bearing housing to reveal the end of the pivot pin attached to the bottom of the steel steering column on both sides, scrape out whats left of the needle bearings. use a screw driver to remove if you can the outer races from the mag suspension arm. Find a large sledge hammer to block the suspension arm and have a friend hold this. use a large lump hammer and a drift and beat the pivot pin for a long time using plenty of penetrating fluid. swear lots and then snap the l/h suspension arm lug off. sit there in dis-belief and shame as you realize that you should have done the job properly and not been gash..... then read manual and check forums.

Secondly the more correct procedure.

Remove top handle bar cover, disconnect speedo cable and any thing else you need to disconnect to enable the cover to be positioned out of the way of the steering collumn, disconnect the front brake cable at the drum, pull cable through and disconnect from the brake lever. remove the bolt retaining the handle bar assy and lift handle bar assy up and over the top of the steering tube. place a block of wood or similar under the bottom of the suspension arm at the bottom for support, use the correct c spanner or lock ring tool to remove the top lock ring, washer and primary lock ring.
whilst supporing the steering collumn with one hand remove the block of wood and lower the steering collumn down and extract from the steering tube.

using circlip pliers remove circlip retaining the front drum to the axle, remove the washer and remove the hub from the axle/suspension arm assy.

Now search the internet, classifieds, parts shops, scrap yards and phone every one vespa related to try and find a replacment suspension arm...

once you have found a suspension arm, cycle across the city in 35 degrees Celsius to your new best friend who happens to have a used arm lying around his shop for 20 euros.

Measure how much the front axle protrudes from the boss on whats left of the damage arm and record this (mine was 114mm, you will need this measurement when pressing the axle back into the serviceable arm)

Using a hydraulic or fly press place the damaged arm on the press supported at the sides of the suspension arm by blocks with the axle facing up. press the axle out from the arm driving the end of the axle toward the arm. (the axle is splined to give retaining force when pressed into the arm, if you press it the wrong way you will have to force this splined portion through the arm that is not already deformed to the axle, damaging the arm (if you are doing this to change a worn/damaged axle you need to re use the arm) if the axle will not press and seems to be stuck, apply moderate heat using a torch or heat gun. Caution.. The suspension arm is magnesium.. it will burn. the key is moderate heat. If the press is loaded enough as the arm expands you will hear it "pop" as it begins to release. drive the axle down and make sure you have some rags under the press to catch the axle when it releases, it will be hot still.

Ensuring the key way for the peined hub nut is facing up, place your replacement arm on the press and begin to press the axle into the arm (Press From the bigger end now) using the measurement taken before removal to ensure correct axle extension on installation. too little and the circlip won't engage, too much and there will be too much play at the hub.

Now remove whats left of the pivot pin on the lower end of the steel steering column/fork. using two suitable sockets (in my case 3/16"th and 1" 1/8th) to in turn support the column and press the pin out.

Suspension arm installation.. place steering column eye end with the arm fork end together on the press, insert dust seals ether side of the column eye end and press the pivot pin into the column through the holes of the suspension arm. continue to press until the pivot pin is equal portions through the column. next press the bearings into ether side of the suspension arm, i suggest you use a vice for this as you need to slowly and lightly press the bearings in whilst not hanging up and crushing the outer races, press in one side a little and then the other. use a socket slightly smaller than the receiving holes gently press the bearings in until you feel a sharp increase in resistance and stop. if you get this wrong you will need a new pivot pin and bearings. insert tabbed sprung locking washers using a socket that fits nicely onto the washer where the tabs start to bend outwards. press this in until it stops insert dust covers and thats it.

Inspect and re-grease the head stock bearings, replace them if necessary, install column, install top race, primary lock ring washer and secondary lock ring, when installing the primary lock ring, tighten whilst rotating the column and stop when it gets stiff, back it off and re tighten until there is no lateral play and no binding/stiffness in the rotation of the steering column.

Reinstall everything else in the reverse order that it was removed in.
@kyvelis avatar
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Addicted
79' p125x
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Location: greece
 
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@kyvelis avatar
79' p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 573
Location: greece
UTC quote
as requested.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Location: seattle/athens
 
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9542
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
^^^ Best front end rebuild DIY I've seen, thanks Andy.

This one is for those w/ simple no battery 12V systems with thanks to Bar Italia for posting such a clear guide everyone beginner to pro can easily understand( from this thread : 1978 P150X Electrical )
Bar Italia Classics wrote:
The horn should still at least click with DC if the wiring and switch are good.

On that system, I would highly recommend bypassing the voltage regulator before doing any testing with an external power source (DC or AC), otherwise, the regulator and/or the power supply can be damaged. You can do the bypass by simply pulling the two leads that are not the ground lead off of the three-wire regulator and connecting them together. They should be two yellow wires.

Once you have your power supply you are going to want to open up the junction box on top of the engine, pull the blue and black leads off and connect your power supply to those wires on side going to the bike. Since the current is Alternating, it does not matter which side of your power supply goes to blue and which goes to black, as long as the are not touching each-other.

A quick note, this is not a fused system, and some versions short the power input to ground to turn the lights off, so make sure your switch is "on" before you connect the power supply. If you don't see lights right away, but connecting the power generates a significant spark at the connector, remove the power and try to track down the short.

If everything works off of the external power supply, then you are going to want to check the output of the stator with an AC voltage meter on the blue and black wire coming off of the stator.

If both are good, then the only variable left is the regulator.

Like I said, you can test these systems with a 12 volt DC power source like a battery charger or even a battery, if necessary, but a 12 volt AC power supply like a household doorbell transformer works better.

One other quick note, your bike appears to actually be a Danmotors P150 Spartan, which was made under license from Piaggio in Indonesia, so while the concepts I have illustrated should be identical, the wiring colors may vary.

Good luck.
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
@freakmoped avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
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Posts: 83
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
 
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@freakmoped avatar
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
UTC quote
edit: sorry!
it got a little bit long and i didnt know
that it will show the videos, thought its will be
the links as i am used from other similiar forums


fmp otuning guide

my 2006 otuning guide is in revision, it will become a
otuning & rotary valve guide all tips around the vespa engine in one guide
and also available in english this time

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

youtube FMPguides

i also made some guides over the last years, so called FMPguides
the first one was 3 years ago due to the ongoing myth in the GSF that
blowback is caused by crank timings and 75° is not driveable anymore
it was this one, to show that these online infos are simply wrong.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a few example about regulary discussed problems around vespa service & tuning:



ever wondered how an engine looks like and how long he will survive if you forget the gearbox oil? screwed engine, the answer is 500km:
the 7 si fuel supply tips to be happy
why the cosa fuel chamber cover CAN´t solve the fuel supply issue
its a wrong online info in forums and online shops
beware of some fuel taps, they suck at reserve and even stop completelly at normal:
how2 make a fast flow fuel tap by yourself
the THROTTELED vespa px si air filter issue...
how2 take out the engine in 15min
how2 take out the clutch in 10min
the grabbing clutch reasons
the 2 clutch separation tests
the oldknown problem with the too thin flaps/plates
honda cr80/100 clutch facings for COSA clutch
the new honda px clutch by teninch
the oilsucker problem of all vespa largeframe engines
how2 close an engine focusing on the weak spot of the engine case
avoiding oilsucker
the problem with the really bad crankcases younger than 2001
blowback?
is a defected rotary valve issue, not a crank issue
see defect vs repaired:
polini 218 with long (no blowback) vs polini 177 with shorter timings (blowback!!) cause the rv is defect:
how2 check the rotary valve
good crank bad crank game
second one is a new LML crank

what can happen when the pressfit is too low, shown with a brandnew (!) crank:
how2 measure cylinder timings
how2 set the ignition
px200 otuning fmpimped, how it looks like
make a POLINI177 out of a cheap DR177
to come soon:
x) pnp tuning guide
x) inlet timings guide


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLAYLISTS:

all FMPguides
vespa exhaust soundchecks
blowback issue and solution
fuel supply tips
oilsucker problem & the solution
drive safe! greets from austria
(the one without kangoroos )
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
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Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Very nice, Mr freak, I can see I've got some time I must set aside for watching videos. The first will be fixing grabby clutch and looks like you've made my job a lot easier. Well done.

Welcome and a big Thanks for all the tips.
@kyvelis avatar
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Addicted
79' p125x
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Posts: 573
Location: greece
 
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@kyvelis avatar
79' p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 573
Location: greece
UTC quote
Jet Drill Size....
The problem was i had no reference,, and i couldn't physically measure the hole size on the 102 jet to give me a reference to what system the jet was measured in.

102 104 106 108. 108 what? swg, .000" mm, elephants? 106 turns out to be 1.06mm 108 is 1.08mm.
so number 58 drill/ 1.06mm drill/0.042" is for a 106 jet size. the next i can get to is a 109 jet which is .043"drill or number 57 drill.

Any how the conclusion is that the dell'orto 20 20 main jet size is calculated using metric as a base so 100 jet is 1mm 102 is 1.02mm 104 is 1.04mm etc.
@max6200 avatar
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Banned
2006 GTS 250
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Location: KS USA
 
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@max6200 avatar
2006 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10590
Location: KS USA
UTC quote
I really like this thread.
@frank_n_stein avatar
UTC

Hooked
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 458
Location: Paris & Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@frank_n_stein avatar
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 458
Location: Paris & Los Angeles
UTC quote
Max6200 wrote:
I really like this thread.
They're liking it in France too!!



http://scootentole.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=1483764#p1483764
@freakmoped avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
 
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@freakmoped avatar
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
UTC quote
Greetz to kheper olivier from paris

Vodoo thank u, u are welcome
I still do have some more storues 2tell
That might be helpful

New one, add to cylinder timings:
Intake tuning measuring marking as promised
Aaand tge f****** annoying warm start issue of px lusso
Is a fault of the too flat airbix lid, did u know?
@frank_n_stein avatar
UTC

Hooked
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 458
Location: Paris & Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@frank_n_stein avatar
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 458
Location: Paris & Los Angeles
UTC quote
freakmoped

I watched your videos about blowback with great interest, as both my Pinasco 225 and Malossi 172 (T5) have noticeable blowback (both have Pinasco flowed cranks). And the T5, especially, has been underperforming, having a hard time getting into the revs.

Checking clearance, I get, but how do you solve the issue of "over 0.05" clearance, if tapping the small crankcase around isn't enough? Apart from aluminum-welding and machining, (or JB Welding)?
@joshbangbang avatar
UTC

Hooked
CUTDOWN PX200.1978 YAMAHA DT 125
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Posts: 285
Location: southwestau
 
Hooked
@joshbangbang avatar
CUTDOWN PX200.1978 YAMAHA DT 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 285
Location: southwestau
UTC quote
et fork conversion done the lazy way..


https://vespa50srebuild.wordpress.com/
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8621
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
joshbangbang wrote:
et fork conversion done the lazy way..


https://vespa50srebuild.wordpress.com/
That's Rolf's Josh.
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
Simple, easy - I like.
Fatbear5 wrote:
From experience I know that I get about 60 miles to a tank so I attached (with a magnet) a small luggage lock to the inside of my glove box. Every time I fill up I add 60 to the speedometer reading at that moment and that tells me when I can expect to switch over to Reserve. Right now, I know that I've got about 15 miles to go before the changeover.
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UTC quote
Frank N. Stein wrote:
@freakmoped

I watched your videos about blowback with great interest, as both my Pinasco 225 and Malossi 172 (T5) have noticeable blowback (both have Pinasco flowed cranks). And the T5, especially, has been underperforming, having a hard time getting into the revs.

Checking clearance, I get, but how do you solve the issue of "over 0.05" clearance, if tapping the small crankcase around isn't enough? Apart from aluminum-welding and machining, (or JB Welding)?
I wonder if you could "bed" the rotary pad to the crank, like you bed a stock to a rifle action? For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, when you want a very accurate rifle, like for target matches, you bed the action into the stock with epoxy to eliminate any play between the two. What you do is fill any holes in the action with modeling clay, coat it with release agent, spread a thin layer of epoxy in the stock, place the action in the stock, clamp it down, and allow the epoxy to cure. When you're done, you have a surface in the stock perfectly mated to the action, easy in theory, difficult in practice. In the stock bedding world, there's many epoxies far better than JB weld, like Acraglass, Devcon, or Marinetex, plus you can get additives to reinforce the epoxy like fiberglass flock or finely powdered metals, ss, al, even ti. They also sell shim tape for floating barrels. My idea would be to coat the crank with release agent, fill the intake hole with clay, use bearing blanks to locate the crank correctly, bolt the cases together, and allow the epoxy to cure. Then just grind off any excess epoxy and you have a perfectly mated crank and rotary pad.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 8252
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8252
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
Convert your 70's US vespa to 12V AC and ditch that crappy 6V battery:
https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2137050
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9542
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Large Collection of Downloadable Manuals
Great find!
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9542
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9542
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
smallframe motors
oopsclunkthud wrote:
one more thing to note on assembly with a ball bearing on the fly side instead of a two part roller:

you have two options for assembly:
1. put the fly side bearing in the case and use a puller to pull the crank (already installed into the clutch side with most everything else) into the bearing as you close the cases. The puller must fit inside the space where the seal goes so it can support the inner ring of the bearing. there will be a moment where you are tightening the 5 center case bolts slowly, then crank on the puller a bit, then back to the nuts... you don't want to over tighten either one. This can be slow and tedious but is the way I prefer to do it. after the case bolts are tight it's a good idea to heat the fly side of the case to allow the bearing to slip a bit if needed so there is no side load left.

2. Put the fly side bearing on the crank. final closing of the case is done with the fly side case hot. This can be a bit frantic and reheating of the fly side may be needed.

In both options the fly side oil seal is installed after the cases are closed.
@kyvelis avatar
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79' p125x
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Location: greece
 
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@kyvelis avatar
79' p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 573
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UTC quote
tips on how to spend the weekend pissing around.
1. Plot a scheme with your mate to make a alibi.
2. Spend the weekend drinking beer, taking photos and doing wheelies.
3. Make a quick vid of something easy and post on youtube as your alibi
4. Come back home and show your kids how clever you are.
5. get laughed at by your wife.

UTC

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
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Location: New Zealand
 
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
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Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
Pinch bolt trick
The high quality pinch bolts have a little cylinder loose in them so that this cylinder acts on the cable..not the threaded bolt.

This cylinder often gets lost

The top bearings from the headset fit perfectly inside the pinch bolt
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