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Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Hooke's Law or Newton's Law of Restitution (Elasticity). I don't remember enough of the difference between the two.

Either way, I had the dampener sorted in no time at all without any helper but my knee
Don't know the law... but if you push fast then you both overcome inertia and get momentum on your side.
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Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Hooke's Law or Newton's Law of Restitution (Elasticity). I don't remember enough of the difference between the two.

Either way, I had the dampener sorted in no time at all without any helper but my knee
Don't know the law... but if you push fast then you both overcome inertia and get momentum on your side.
And it's been a while since physics... but the thing with springs is they resist with constant force. The spring constant =k
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UTC quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
pheasant plucker wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Hooke's Law or Newton's Law of Restitution (Elasticity). I don't remember enough of the difference between the two.

Either way, I had the dampener sorted in no time at all without any helper but my knee :D
Don't know the law... but if you push fast then you both overcome inertia and get momentum on your side.
And it's been a while since physics... but the thing with springs is they resist with constant force. The spring constant =k
not constant force, but proportional to the length of displacement. F=K*d
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
autojack wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Either way, I had the dampener sorted in no time at all without any helper but my knee
I'll admit I've got more lengths of 2x4 than I have friends.
And 2x4's don't drink all your beer, either.
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UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
I realize I may be the last person on the forum still using a castellated clutch nut. But if there are any others out there, do yourself a favor and BEVEL THE EDGE of the nut removal tool.

The tool works OK with the engine out, but I spent a whole frustrating afternoon trying to get the teeth to to grip the nut with the engine in the scoot. There's basically no way to put enough leverage on it. It just slips off.

Beveling the edge of tool lets it sits deeper in the teeth. The nut'll twist right off. Then throw it away and get a shouldered nut.
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UTC quote
The tool barely fits into the six spring clutch on my sprint, so I'm feeling kind've dumb I didn't think of this myself. In general, I only use the damn tool to remove castle nuts, but I haven't have flange nut that will fit in there yet and I forgot to see what SIP had when I ordered my new axle & cruciform last night.
OP
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UTC quote
Yep, I still use them and I jumped on this when I saw it here:
Ginch wrote:
SFvsr wrote:
Bevel the edge of the clutch nut tool. Clutch design changed over the years and some clutch nut tools go deeper into the castellated nut than others, mostly because the tool bottoms out on the clutch before it seats completely into the nut.

In the picture, the tool on left is unmodified. The tool on right has been put to a grinder.
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SoCalGuy wrote:
I realize I may be the last person on the forum still using a castellated clutch nut.
Been out of this vespa thing for a bit, so I'm picking up new things these day in the past I have always used the castle nut, and personally never had any issues. Although I know others do. I always used a new nut + cage when removing/replacing.

I understand the advantage of using a shouldered nut for ease of using a standard socket, and I would think more even distribution of force. What about locking it down without the cage? Split-ring or toothed lock washer is sufficient? Same factory torque specs as the castle nut?
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UTC quote
[quote="GeekLion"]
SoCalGuy wrote:
What about locking it down without the cage? Split-ring or toothed lock washer is sufficient? Same factory torque specs as the castle nut?
This type of nut is supposedly single-use. I read that the threads, compared to a normal nut, is very slightly different. That means that they deform just a little, enough to grip the male thread. I have re-used them however and never had one come loose from the clutch over the last 10 years.
Quote:
K-nuts are developed by the aerospace industry.

The goal was to be able to fasten the components of an airplane with a nut that is vibration proof and lighter while being more resistant to corrosion.

That is why they're often called jet nuts!

https://k-nuts.com/
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
I realize I may be the last person on the forum still using a castellated clutch nut. But if there are any others out there, do yourself a favor and BEVEL THE EDGE of the nut removal tool.

The tool works OK with the engine out, but I spent a whole frustrating afternoon trying to get the teeth to to grip the nut with the engine in the scoot. There's basically no way to put enough leverage on it. It just slips off.

Beveling the edge of tool lets it sits deeper in the teeth. The nut'll twist right off. Then throw it away and get a shouldered nut.
I dug through by tool box of Vespa specific tools today to find my custom made socket. I didn't have the correct socket at the time, so I made one. I think I made it sometime around the turn of the century? I also found a couple of the correct sockets as well. I must have had the same issue as everyone else, because apparently I sanded down a taper on it so that it would fit. I guess that should tell you the last time I've used one of those castellated nuts!
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UTC quote
Me too, about 10 years ago the first time I needed one and I didn't want to wait a week for the special tool. I had an extra clutch nut and discovered that it fit perfectly with the other one so I welded a short fat bolt on it and pulled the clutch shortly after. Works well if you are in a jam, but the steel is not hardened and it won't last like the real deal.
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Ginch: Thanks for that info and link. I have one of these nuts I got from SIP/DRT a while back but never used, #11351940. Scootermercato sells what appears to be the same one... both retail approx $10. SIP has another option without the washer for 1/3 the price.... I'm sure there are others out there
I wonder if these are actually true "Jet Nuts" as they come with a toothed lock washer. Or are they simply machined "flange nuts" with NO self locking characteristics...


Some more detailed information about the Jet/K nut and how it achieves the self locking through Eliptical offset on part of the threads., As you said Ginch!

Jet-Nut / K-Nut - from wiki
A jet nut,[1] also known as a k-nut,[1][2][3] is a special type of hex locknut that is commonly used in the aerospace and automotive racing industries.[3]
It has a flange on one end of the nut, the hex is smaller than a standard sized hex nut, and it is shorter than a standard hex nut. It achieves its locking action by using an elliptical offset on the un-flanged end of the nut.[4]

Elliptical offset nuts
Elliptical offset nuts is a catch-all category that encompasses designs known as oval locknuts[1] or non-slotted hex locknuts,.[3] The salient feature is that the threadform has been deformed at one end so that the threads are no longer perfectly circular. The deformed end is usually shaped into an ellipse or obround triangle. These are known as one-way nuts as the nut may be easily started on the male fastener from the bottom non-deformed portion, but are practically impossible to start from the deformed end. As the male fastener reaches the deformed section it stretches the threads of the nut elastically back into a circle. This action increases the friction between the nut and the fastener greatly and creates the locking action. Due to the elastic nature of the deformation the nuts can be reused indefinitely.

Reusing Locking Nuts
The FAA has issued guidelines on the reuse of locking nuts. Specific recommendations have been published for larger sizes (7/16-20 and up), but the general rule is that you should not be able to turn the nut by hand once the locking portion engages the male threads. If you can turn the nut with your fingers, it must be replaced. When in doubt, replace!


On a slightly different note: digging into thread locking/bolt lossening on Boltscience.com. Interesting stuff for a Geek if you want to dive in deep! Basicly they say that split-ring washers do NOT help secure a nut, and actually cause it to fail sooner than just a plain nut alone. This is only preliminary research. Not thinking specifically for the clutch, just general purpose info for those who want to dig deeper. I think I shall
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UTC quote
Just found this on a smallframe group on fb. Great idea - use shrink wrap to hold the top hats on the cable outers!
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Just found this on a smallframe group on fb. Great idea - use shrink wrap to hold the top hats on the cable outers!
AND - colored shrink wrap around cables & wires to match the paint color!!
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Just found this on a smallframe group on fb. Great idea - use shrink wrap to hold the top hats on the cable outers!
Superglue works just as well... when installing
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UTC quote
Gravelrash2004 wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Just found this on a smallframe group on fb. Great idea - use shrink wrap to hold the top hats on the cable outers!
Superglue works just as well... when installing
or just put them on the inner before feeding it in.

On the other hand, the bit around the two shift cables is a good idea. my GS still has the two shifters crimped together with a metal band.
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Just found this on a smallframe group on fb. Great idea - use shrink wrap to hold the top hats on the cable outers!
AND - colored shrink wrap around cables & wires to match the paint color!!
...and if you look closer, it appears that there's a solid round metal rod (3/16"-1/4" diameter) welded into the legshields?
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Lurker
vespa gts 250ie
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UTC quote
Vespa GTS key hack (blue top/loop falling apart)
Not willing to part with my hard earned cash to replace, cut and re-code the key. I decided to bend up a paper clip to act as a loop and then use heat shrink to secure it to the actual key.
It has worked a treat. Cost me nothing as I already had the items laying around the house.
Even if you want to get a new key cut, this little hack should save you from losing your key while waiting for the replacement.
Happy scootering🛵
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
I just ran across this in a video about restoring a T-55 tank. Removing a frozen bolt that's sheared off.

https://youtu.be/nVBX3YX50M4?t=417
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I just ran across this in a video about restoring a T-55 tank. Removing a frozen bolt that's sheared off.

https://youtu.be/nVBX3YX50M4?t=417
If you don't speak Dutch, just click the CC icon to turn on captions
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
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Style Maven
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By request: How to get the dustshield off undamages to use again, so you can remove the damn muguard and again, the photo details so you can weld up an edgeformer tool of your own.
    a linoleum knife is gonna make it so much easier
also an old paring knifr, a small hammer and a couple of thin strong prying tools
    a linoleum knife is gonna make it so much easier also an old paring knifr, a small hammer and a couple of thin strong prying tools
    Use the  paring knife first to get a small gap
working around it wth light hammer taps being sure you are getting into the gap
    Use the paring knife first to get a small gap working around it wth light hammer taps being sure you are getting into the gap
    Once you have a gap the linoleum knife can use same tap tap all around but harder taps and the linoleum knife fits the curve nice to  make it easy
    Once you have a gap the linoleum knife can use same tap tap all around but harder taps and the linoleum knife fits the curve nice to make it easy
    now pry up gently and evenly, it's the bearing that's tite
dust shield is loose now
    now pry up gently and evenly, it's the bearing that's tite dust shield is loose now
    all done and the dust shield is still good to go
    all done and the dust shield is still good to go
    OP
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    UTC quote
    Edge tool: clamp TIGHT and 'roll' the metal to reshape frame edges and looser over a rag or piece of leather to work aluminum trim.
    I like a curved longer upper piece to use for  a little easier going around corners which is 'challenging'
    I like a curved longer upper piece to use for a little easier going around corners which is 'challenging'
    just clamp it together to weld obviously
    just clamp it together to weld obviously
    no hard and fast rules on sizes, radius the inside end edges on the lower die
    no hard and fast rules on sizes, radius the inside end edges on the lower die
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    Ossessionato
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    UTC quote
    Great idea on the edge tool.
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    UTC quote
    Solderless Nipple Fix
    I realized when I went to put everything back together that I'd lost the small steel plug in the clutch cable pinch bolt. A quick trip to the hardware store and I came back with a nail and a #3 tinners rivet. I was worried the rivet would be too soft and a quick squeeze in the vise showed that the rivet mushroomed too much to easily fit into the pinch bolt, but its a good comparison to the thickness of nail you need. 60 seconds of work with a dremel and a cutoff disc and I made a small steel plug that fit right into the pinch bolt and I was able to put everything together. Not an amazing hack, but it beats waiting for a new part to ship to you.
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    The Dude
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    Thats a good useful tip. Much better than leaving it out and jamming that bolt into the cable as some do who dont realize the plug is even there.
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    I just never take the bolt out of the top so the plug never can fall out...
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    UTC quote
    ^^^ Maybe if it's new, but I ALWAYS take it out to verify the plug is there coz half the time it's not and I have to find another or do what Hal did.
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    and some aftermarket ones never had the plug, so removing it identifies those.
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    UTC quote
    I pull the bolt out most of the way and then shake it and look through the hole to see it is there, then turn it upside down and shove the cable through.
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    UTC quote
    I had a hard time finding a clicking noise in a motor. I wasnt sure if it was the cush drive teeth or a gear with a bad tooth.

    With the cases split and clutch removed, I hooked a drill up to the castellated rear axle nut, removed the circlip and gear shim and spun the gear cluster slowly, pushing in on the gears with my free hand. Heard the noise so I removed first gear. Spun and heard the noise, removed 2nd gear. Spun and the noise went away. Reinstalled 2nd gear and spun, noise is back.

    Switched cush drives and repeated the steps. Noise still on 2nd gear. Replaced second gear and everything was happy.

    So, moral of the story is get a drill and spin the internals to help troubleshoot gear meshing problems
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    great tip!

    were you able to identify the bad tooth? bent?
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    UTC quote
    oopsclunkthud wrote:
    great tip!

    were you able to identify the bad tooth? bent?
    Yep. Once I found the bad gear, I adjusted the drill rpm and with enough time I was able to narrow down the problem area within an inch. Then I found the bad tooth and the damage was as clear as day.
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    Wow, its so satisfying when you actually identify the root of the problem. Good work!
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    Nice one MJ!
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    Location: San Francisco
    UTC quote
    whereshaldo wrote:
    Wow, its so satisfying when you actually identify the root of the problem. Good work!
    and before catastrophic failure, well done!
    @worrywort avatar
    UTC

    Hooked
    PX125E
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 190
    Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
     
    Hooked
    @worrywort avatar
    PX125E
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 190
    Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
    UTC quote
    Tips plus hint.
    Hello There.
    First the hint. The Crankshart thread pitch is "Metric Fine" (I can't recall if it's an 8 mm or 10mm Dia but I do know it's 1.50 mm Pitch. most nuts you will find are. X by 1.75 mm pitch.

    Tip No:2
    Working on the electrickery?

    Get a set fo coloured Pencils (Or nick your children's crayons for an hour.

    Pick a Circuit. Choose one Wire at a time and draw it on a piece of paper.
    When you now go looking for the fault, you can wade though the spiders web looking for the pink or blue etc wire and can happily ignore the rest.
    @exmayor avatar
    UTC

    Hooked
    64 V90 survivor '65 Allstate survivor. '75 V90 SOLD. '77 P200 SOLD
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 453
    Location: Madison WI
     
    Hooked
    @exmayor avatar
    64 V90 survivor '65 Allstate survivor. '75 V90 SOLD. '77 P200 SOLD
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 453
    Location: Madison WI
    UTC quote
    Needed to renew the numbers on my shifter and didn't want to mess with painting and wiping off the excess. Found an oil based Sharpie paint pen at a craft store. It has a very fine point that tracks inside the numbers.
    Just clean out all of the old gunk with a scratch awl. A couple coats and you are done.
    Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
    ⚠️ Last edited by exmayor on UTC; edited 1 time
    @aiosi avatar
    UTC

    Hooked
    2005 Vespa PX 150 Serie America #107 of 500
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 410
    Location: Houston, Texas USA
     
    Hooked
    @aiosi avatar
    2005 Vespa PX 150 Serie America #107 of 500
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 410
    Location: Houston, Texas USA
    UTC quote
    exmayor wrote:
    Needed to renew the numbers on my shifter and didn't want to mess with painting and wiping off the excess. Found an oil based Sharpie paint pen at a craft store. It has a very finer point that tracks inside the
    There is also a good selection of lacquer based colors of pens in the nail polish section of your local drug store.
    Some with pretty fine tips too.
    (Some pretty fine tips in this topic too! )
    OP
    @v_oodoo avatar
    UTC

    Style Maven
    '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 9541
    Location: seattle/athens
     
    Style Maven
    @v_oodoo avatar
    '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 9541
    Location: seattle/athens
    UTC quote
    For those who have little space, small wallets and/or like to build stuff
    yellowscoot wrote:
    I wanted to build a table lift / stand that is not expensive and take almost no space in my garage when not in use. I looked on the net and found this one: http://www.eurospares.com/bikestnd.htm
    It is cheap to build but not compact, so I modified the plans to use cross halving joints (http://www.technologystudent.com/joints/crsh1.htm) for the supporting box. Will make a wheel chock later as here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic8548?highlight=wheel+chock
    Happy with the result, was easy to change oil on it.
    Cheers.
    More here: Scooter stand

    some of his pics:
    External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

    External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

    External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

    External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
    @geeklion avatar
    UTC

    The Dude
    Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 1643
    Location: PNW from LBC
     
    The Dude
    @geeklion avatar
    Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
    Joined: UTC
    Posts: 1643
    Location: PNW from LBC
    UTC quote
    The ingenuity built into that scooter stand is very interesting. Am I the only one who feels nervous looking at the photos? Seems like it could be very precarious getting the scooter pushed up, and tilting the table without dropping it off the side....
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