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PeterCC wrote:
What is most common in use in NZ? liter/100km or km/liter?
I should start a new thread on the subject of liter/100km.
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PeterCC wrote:
In 1976? That is 48 years ago. And you still have Imperial mpg in your head?

Time to make the switch I would say.
What is most common in use in NZ? liter/100km or km/liter?
I know, I should get over it, but old habits in this case seem to die hard.

Litre/100km, but some vehicles (Japanese I think) show km/litre in their displays. My own Alfa shows litre/100km in the trip computer.
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jess wrote:
I should start a new thread on the subject of liter/100km.
With a side of liter or litre. ROFL emoticon
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jess wrote:
I should start a new thread on the subject of liter/100km.
Which is a really ridiculous measurement, even if you fill using litres and measure your distance in Km. You need a sliderule to work out l/100km...
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jimc wrote:
Which is a really ridiculous measurement, even if you fill using litres and measure your distance in Km. You need a sliderule to work out l/100km...
Exactly.
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jimc wrote:
Which is a really ridiculous measurement, even if you fill using litres and measure your distance in Km. You need a sliderule to work out l/100km...
Sliderule.
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jimc wrote:
Which is a really ridiculous measurement, even if you fill using litres and measure your distance in Km. You need a sliderule to work out l/100km...
Of course it's a silly measurement but the geek in me has meant I have set up a spreadsheet that does all the gruntwork that the slide rule (which fits in the underseat bucket) used to do.
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jimc wrote:
Which is a really ridiculous measurement, even if you fill using litres and measure your distance in Km. You need a sliderule to work out l/100km...
Of course you carry a sliderule around in your pocket. I did in my university days (1960) and still use one regularly for scaling the models I build.
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Yes, please start a new thread.

I for one find L per 100km a much better measure of efficiency than miles per gallon (or any distance per volume measure). The US EPA or DOT seemingly agree. New cars in the USA have their efficiency listed in gallons per 100 miles. There was a whole write up about it on the EPA website somewhere. The advantage to volume/distance is that comparisons are linear. Differences in mpg between two vehicles is not linear.

https://www.popsci.com/technology/gallons-per-100-miles-best-fuel-economy-metric/

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a12367/4324986/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/car-labels-fuel-efficiency/

I will post the EPA article if I can find it again.
I really think we should just bite the bullet and go metric. Instead of gallons per 100 miles, just join the majority of the world and go L/100 km.
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jess wrote:
I should start a new thread on the subject of liter/100km.
Yes please do.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
I for one find L per 100km a much better measure of efficiency than miles per gallon (or any distance per volume measure). The US EPA or DOT seemingly agree. New cars in the USA have their efficiency listed in gallons per 100 miles. There was a whole write up about it on the EPA website somewhere. The advantage to volume/distance is that comparisons are linear. Differences in mpg between two vehicles is not linear.
The argument for l/100km (or gallons/100M) seems to be, if I may sum it up: by making the computation more difficult for everyone on a day to day basis, the ability to compare the efficiency of cars to each other in a linear fashion becomes easier.

Which makes about as much sense as peeing your pants in winter for a bit of cozy warmth.

You've lowered the cognitive load of comparing car efficiency by making the numbers linear, but the cost of doing so is a significant cognitive load in the day to day computation of fuel usage.

Thanks, but I'm full up on stupid ideas at the moment.
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As a side note 1 mph = ~2688 furlongs per fortnight.
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jess wrote:
The argument for l/100km (or gallons/100M) seems to be, if I may sum it up: by making the computation more difficult for everyone on a day to day basis, the ability to compare the efficiency of cars to each other in a linear fashion becomes easier.

Which makes about as much sense as peeing your pants in winter for a bit of cozy warmth.

You've lowered the cognitive load of comparing car efficiency by making the numbers linear, but the cost of doing so is a significant cognitive load in the day to day computation of fuel usage.

Thanks, but I'm full up on stupid ideas at the moment.
For me, knowing the gallons per 100 miles really doesn't seem like much of an advantage over just knowing miles per gallon. But, unless I'm missing something, once you know your mpg is, say, 38, don't you just divide 1 by 38 on the calculator (that you just used to get your mpg) and then move the decimal point over two spots (in your head) to get the other thing? It doesn't seem that complicated. Unless, as I say, I'm missing it...
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GBaby wrote:
For me, knowing the gallons per 100 miles really doesn't seem like much of an advantage over just knowing miles per gallon. But, unless I'm missing something, once you know your mpg is, say, 38, don't you just divide 1 by 38 on the calculator (that you just used to get your mpg) and then move the decimal point over two spots (in your head) to get the other thing? It doesn't seem that complicated. Unless, as I say, I'm missing it...
It's not gallons per 100 miles, it's litres per 100 kilometers as a standard - which when you measure in US gallons and miles, or litres and miles as in the UK, is a RRPITA and no relevance to actual personal experience. And I don't use a calculator to work out my mpg - I can easily work out if it's nearer 18 mpg or 20 mpg just from looking at the trip meter in the van and the gas pump reading.
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I see, it's the conversion from gallons that makes it a drag. Another reason to go metric in the US. Except for Celsius, of course.
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GBaby wrote:
Except for Celsius, of course.
Of course.
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GBaby wrote:
But, unless I'm missing something, once you know your mpg is, say, 38, don't you just divide 1 by 38 on the calculator (that you just used to get your mpg) and then move the decimal point over two spots (in your head) to get the other thing?
The decimal move isn't hard, but dividing 1 by 38 (or worse, the dreaded 37) in your head is nontrivial. Yes, of course having a calculator makes it easy. So does having a spreadsheet with the formula.
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Distance per volume tells me how far I can drive my vehicle.

Volume per distance tells me how much it's costing(me or my grandkids).

Times are getting tough I guess.
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My truck displays the current distance to empty, and the MPG for the current tank. At the end of the trip, it displays the distance traveled, time of the trip, and the average MPG for that trip. I can also readily access the average MPG for the current trip, current tank, and for the life of the vehicle.

My wife's car only displays the current distance to empty.
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It doesn't really matter if it's l/km, km/l, mpg, gpm, F or C. They will all give you information that you can use to compare distances or heat. They're all base 10 so relatively easy to scale.

The issues arise when you realise that mpg can be different from mpg, depending on local size of m and g. Therefore it makes more sense to use l and km, which are the same size all over the earth.
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T.S.Zarathusra wrote:
The issues arise when you realise that mpg can be different from mpg, depending on local size of m and g. Therefore it makes more sense to use l and km, which are the same size all over the earth.
I have no objection to l or km. Only to the particular arrangement thereof.
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jess wrote:
The decimal move isn't hard, but dividing 1 by 38 (or worse, the dreaded 37) in your head is nontrivial. Yes, of course having a calculator makes it easy. So does having a spreadsheet with the formula.
Ever since the phone started living in my pocket with a calculator on it I use it for stuff like gas mileage all the time, not that I was ever as good at doing calculations in my head as some people I've been around. But I'm also the kind of guy who uses numbers like "19 3/4 minus" all day long at work, so there's that.
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jess wrote:
The argument for l/100km (or gallons/100M) seems to be, if I may sum it up: by making the computation more difficult for everyone on a day to day basis, the ability to compare the efficiency of cars to each other in a linear fashion becomes easier.

Which makes about as much sense as peeing your pants in winter for a bit of cozy warmth.

You've lowered the cognitive load of comparing car efficiency by making the numbers linear, but the cost of doing so is a significant cognitive load in the day to day computation of fuel usage.

Thanks, but I'm full up on stupid ideas at the moment.
When used to compare which vehicle to buy, volume/set distance is a much better metric than distance/volume. That linear comparison makes comparison shopping much easier. There is MORE arithmetic involved when using mpg when used to compare vehicles.

I fail so see how L/100km or the ridiculous Gallons/ 100 miles is any more difficult than miles/gallon for daily use. It's just not what American brains are used to seeing. It's the same reason that so many Americans' eyes glaze over when they see "km", "L", "cm" on something. They just aren't used to it.

If, for example, I wanted to know how much fuel it is going to take to go 65km and my car is a 5L/100km vehicle, the math is simple. 5*0.65 =3.25L

If one has to do it with a d/v method; a 47mpg car to go 40 miles; 40/47=0.85 gallons.

They are both simple arithmetic problems. How is one inherently harder than the other? If anything, the division problem is harder to do in one's head. It is just a difference in perspective. What is it that one trying to ascertain? If you want to know how expensive a trip is going to be, or asking if you have enough fuel for that leg of a trip, then the v/d system is easier. If one is vehicle shopping, then the v/d is again more useful. If one just wants to know how far you can go on a unit of fuel, then the d/v system is marginally better. I see more pros for the v/d than for d/v.

It is anything but a "stupid idea". Nearly a billion Europeans would disagree with that assessment. Besides, it was you that asked if you should start a new thread on L/100km.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
When used to compare which vehicle to buy, volume/set distance is a much better metric than distance/volume. That linear comparison makes comparison shopping much easier. There is MORE arithmetic involved when using mpg when used to compare vehicles.
The laugh here is that you think you can somehow change my mind with your incredibly effective debate skills.
TwistAndGo wrote:
Nearly a billion Europeans would disagree with that assessment. Besides, it was you that asked if you should start a new thread on L/100km.
"Nearly a billion Europeans" (actually, I think you're off by about 20-odd percent, but whatevs) also use Celsius, and seem to believe that it is superior because (checks notes) because they "grew up with it and are used to it".

If you had read this thread, you would know what I think of that.
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jess wrote:
The laugh here is that you think you can somehow change my mind with your incredibly effective debate skills.
Who pissed in your cornflakes?
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TwistAndGo wrote:
Nearly a billion Europeans
Google says about 750 million Europeans. That's not nearly a billion just like 15 MPG isn't nearly 10 gallons per hundred miles.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
Who pissed in your cornflakes?
People who were banned for being asshats and insisted on coming back, only to prove that their ban was completely justified.
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Madison Sully wrote:
Google says about 750 million Europeans. That's not nearly a billion just like 15 MPG isn't nearly 10 gallons per hundred miles.
LOL, if you were to following rounding, then it rounds up to a billion.

Besides, how many other countries outside of Europe use the L/100km system? Asia? Africa? Australia? South America? I don't know. It's bound to get that number closer to or above 1 billion.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
LOL, if you were to following rounding, then it rounds up to a billion.
750 million only rounds up to 1 billion if you are doing the math by counting on your fingers and toes.
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jess wrote:
People who were banned for being asshats and insisted on coming back, only to prove that their ban was completely justified.
I never have understood the method of bearing an "un-ban-hammer".
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jess wrote:
People who were banned for being asshats and insisted on coming back, only to prove that their ban was completely justified.


I will just go back to ignoring your barbs and insults then.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
I will just go back to ignoring your barbs and insults then.
And yet you ventured into this thread unarmed and tried to pick a fight. Odd way of "ignoring my barbs".
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jess wrote:
And yet you ventured into this thread unarmed and tried to pick a fight. Odd way of "ignoring my barbs".
Were "barbs" as you put it, necessary or warranted? No.

I wasn't trying to "pick a fight". I was discussing the merits of a topic. Debate, not bickering.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
Where "barbs" as you put it, necessary or warranted? No.

I wasn't trying to "pick a fight". I was discussing the merits of a topic. Debate, not bickering.
If you really want to debate, let's debate the relevance of rounding 750 million up to a billion. I mean really, ONE significant figure is all you can handle?
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Madison Sully wrote:
If you really want to debate, let's debate the relevance of rounding 750 million up to a billion. I mean really, ONE significant figure is all you can handle?
And now the pedantic insult brigade starts chiming in. Wow!
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TwistAndGo wrote:
Where "barbs" as you put it, necessary or warranted? No.

I wasn't trying to "pick a fight". I was discussing the merits of a topic. Debate, not bickering.
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This reminds me of the Guillow's rubber band powered gliders from my childhood.

You wind it up, see how it flies and how it lands. You fiddle with the wings and tail a bit, wind it up again and send it.

This works until you get greedy and wind the rubber band up more and more. For a while, it still works and the flights seem a bit better. Eventually, you wind it too much, the band breaks and playtime is over.
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az_slynch wrote:
This works until you get greedy and wind the rubber band up more and more. For a while, it still works and the flights seem a bit better. Eventually, you wind it too much, the band breaks and playtime is over.
I can't tell if I'm the winder or the band in this analogy.
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az_slynch wrote:
Eventually, you wind it too much, the band breaks and playtime is over.
Thats because you weren't using a Malossi band.
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TwistAndGo wrote:
And now the pedantic insult brigade starts chiming in. Wow!
It being tax season and all, would you round up in similar fashion in order to pay ~$10,000 instead of $7500?
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