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Zombie Process
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UTC quote
I'll try to keep this short and on-point.

I've long held the viewpoint that less is more and simpler is better. You can see the result of this philosophy in the layout of this forum, with as few forum areas as possible. So at this juncture, I think it's time to take the next step on the long road to simplifying Modern Vespa even further.

Currently, the NSM and MP3 areas represent distinct and separate communities, both of which are largely independent of the "general" MV audience found in General Discussion. These two distinct groups, with only a few exceptions, do not interact with the General Discussion crowd, keeping largely to their own areas. Each group brings to the table unique strengths, but both suffer from that lack of interaction with the larger MV community.

I don't think anything I do or say will alter this. No amount of encouragement will result in a change in behavior, given the current forum layout. It is, for all intents and purposes, a kabuki dance.

So rather than try to force you all to interact with the mainstream MV crowd, I'm instead going to merge the NSM and MP3 sections. This seems weird at first, I know. But bear with me. The two groups are actually more similar than you might imagine. For instance, both groups are largely made up of unsocialized males who take themselves just a bit too seriously. One group is a little bit older and the other group is a little bit more cynical, of course. Still, I think there are many commonalities between the two groups that will resonate within an integrated NSMP3 area, and there are many opportunities for cross-polinization of knowledge and synergy of ideas.

I urge each of these two groups to reach out to the others, say hello, and try to find common ground. If there's one thing you should take home from this message, it's that communities are about more than the kind of bike you ride.
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UTC

Primasarah
1979 P200E, 1977 Rally 200, 1974 Primavera
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Primasarah
@travisnj avatar
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UTC quote
I really would love to know/understand your thought process! That is not a jab, but a legitimate request as I don't understand the purpose.
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UTC quote
TravisNJ wrote:
I really would love to know/understand your thought process! That is not a jab, but a legitimate request as I don't understand the purpose.
Well, both NSM and MP3 are not "modern Vespa", both in terms of the relevant subject matter and in terms of the integration with the rest of the MV community. Indeed, both groups (with a few notable exceptions) have largely refused to interact with the rest of the MV community.

These two groups make up basically all of the traffic outside of General Discussion. I'm just trying to find the right balance of forum areas that best serve the total audience, without becoming overly complicated.
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UTC quote
not a fan
Here's a thought: Why not merge Scooter Tag and Ride Reports instead? Same result, one less sub forum for you to have to look after. They are also somewhat similar and I'll bet you'd have a LOT fewer unhappy members.
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UTC quote
wtf jess, im not playing in this sandpit


unsociallized males who take themselves too seriously


youve got your head up your cheeks



oh yeh chiso, i passed the link to mandurah mark thanks
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joshzingzing wrote:
unsociallized males who take themselves too seriously


youve got your head up your cheeks
I present Exhibit A.
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Re: not a fan
V oodoo wrote:
Here's a thought: Why not merge Scooter Tag and Ride Reports instead? Same result, one less sub forum for you to have to look after. They are also somewhat similar and I'll bet you'd have a LOT fewer unhappy members.
In terms of overall traffic, those areas are very, very small. Additionally, the people who do frequent those areas are, by and large, mainstream MV users.
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f*cking retarded
It's not April Fool's Day already, it's only March.
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FVV wrote:
f*cking retarded.
Exhibit B. Laughing emoticon
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UTC quote
Honestly, I expected more bitching from the MP3 crowd than the NSM crowd. I kind of expected that most NSM people would just stomp off to ScootRally and that would be that.

Hey, at least you vintage guys have someplace else to go.
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Molto Verboso
2009 MP3 400ie, Silver- "Lorelei Lee Long"
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UTC quote
I'm completely lost. What is NSM? And why do I want to wade through their irrelevant posts?
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UTC quote
looks like someone is craving attention
...or deliberately trying to drive people away.
Or both.
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UTC quote
⚠️ Last edited by scootermarc69 on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Wow what a terrible idea
Also, you're a troll on your own forum. Calling names and waiting for people to react and then using that to justify yourself. Ugh. I am glad I have not socialized anywhere else on this forum if this is what you call "community"
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Re: Wow what a terrible idea
davidste wrote:
Also, you're a troll on your own forum. Calling names and waiting for people to react and then using that to justify yourself. Ugh. I am glad I have not socialized anywhere else on this forum if this is what you call "community"
Exhibit C.
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UTC quote
Re: not a fan
jess wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Here's a thought: Why not merge Scooter Tag and Ride Reports instead? Same result, one less sub forum for you to have to look after. They are also somewhat similar and I'll bet you'd have a LOT fewer unhappy members.
In terms of overall traffic, those areas are very, very small. Additionally, the people who do frequent those areas are, by and large, mainstream MV users.
Yes, that's obvious, you didn't really need to tell me. You seemed to forget to address the unhappy members.

There must be a reason. It MUST make things enough easier for somebody to justify doing it. Damned if I can figure it out though, even after thinking about it a bit.


Seems like there's more 'us' or 'them' around here than I realized. I look on the modern side regularly and even post sometimes & try to 'fit in'. Doesn't happen.
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I'm also kind of shocked that TravisNJ has been the most civil commenter on this thread.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
...

I kind of expected that most NSM people would just stomp off to ScootRally and that would be that.

Hey, at least you vintage guys have someplace else to go.
Hmmmm, very revealing
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Re: not a fan
V oodoo wrote:
There must be a reason. It MUST make things enough easier for somebody to justify doing it. Damned if I can figure it out though, even after thinking about it a bit.
I didn't explicitly mention it, but yes. Moderation coverage is always a concern, and this certainly streamlines that quite a bit.
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V oodoo wrote:
Hmmmm, very revealing
Not intentionally. Just observing that I thought I'd get more friction from the MP3 side.
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I see. Fewer 'undesirable' members, less work.
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V oodoo wrote:
I see. Fewer 'undesirable' members, less work.
More like everything in one place.

And hey, I'm still hoping for some synergy.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
The problem with this move is obvious though. Now both forums, which are specialized, have to try and decipher which posts are relevant to them. That's not friendly to the users at all. I understand what you're aiming for, but why would you want to make it harder for your members to use the forums?
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
I kind of expected that most NSM people would just stomp off to ScootRally and that would be that.
Same number of posts, ~same amount of work. Fewer posts, less work. The unintentionally revealing part is you seem to EXPECT a large exodus and don't care.
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UTC

Addicted
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UTC quote
My worst fear has come true! Now that MP3s are no longer being shipped to the USA, we are now not so modern! Ugh, over the hill at five. Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Same number of posts, ~same amount of work.
Not really. We've found over the years that the more divided a forum is, the harder it is to keep an eye on it. The moderators actually resisted my last proposal to add a "Technical" section along side the "General Discussion" area, because of the added labor of moderating another forum area. In retrospect, I agree with them.

(Contrary to popular belief, I do not usually rule by fiat when it comes to forum policy and design decisions).
V oodoo wrote:
Fewer posts, less work. The unintentionally revealing part is you seem to EXPECT a large exodus and don't care.
It's a balancing act. The original target audience for NSM was largely modern Vespa owners who also owned vintage bikes. I expect most of those people will remain at MV.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Hi Jess,

We haven't met yet, and I'm not the most vocal or most tenured member, but I will chime in on the merger of the two sections. I can appreciate the makeover and how you explained your intent. That's cool. I am skeptical of the outcome. I have spent a number of years in the car show petri dish. The Camaro guys and the Mustang guys share similar traits, yet a Camaro guy doesn't carry the interest in Mustangs and vice versa. Should they have a unified forum, the chance of creating a homogeneous car enthusiast group who appreciates the others is slim... because the Camaro guy likes Camaro information and the Mustang guy likes Mustang information.

I've found the MP3 group to be very social. They may resist playing in the General Discussion section because the MP3 section suits their interests and needs. Perhaps the NSM groupies are the same.

Considering that MV is the best group for almost every facet of information available for our hobby/passion/pastime, I'm sure most all will accept the merger, albeit fixing a problem they didn't know they had. It kinda makes me feel like my wife rearranged our closet, and I'm going to have to sort through her dresses to find where I hung my boxer shorts.

Thanks for seeing my take on it. I know it's your call on how it all works, and your choice wasn't done on a whim, so we'll have to see how it all comes out. I'll give it every effort, even though I have virtually zero interest in vintage scooterology.

Here's to the constancy of change.
Steve aka. Honeybadger
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UTC

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UTC quote
fecking ranga,



exhibit D
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HoneyBadger wrote:
We haven't met yet, and I'm not the most vocal or most tenured member, but I will chime in on the merger of the two sections. I can appreciate the makeover and how you explained your intent. That's cool. I am skeptical of the outcome. I have spent a number of years in the car show petri dish. The Camaro guys and the Mustang guys share similar traits, yet a Camaro guy doesn't carry the interest in Mustangs and vice versa. Should they have a unified forum, the chance of creating a homogeneous car enthusiast group who appreciates the others is slim... because the Camaro guy likes Camaro information and the Mustang guy likes Mustang information.
First, thanks for your thoughtful post. It's refreshing.

As an ex-vintage-Mustang enthusiast, I get what you're saying about Mustang vs. Camaro, which is of course an age-old "rivalry", though probably mostly friendly at this point. Still, I have hope that as scooterists, the MP3 and NSM sides will find some kind of synergy beyond the usual us-vs-them paradigms.
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UTC quote
It's late. Time for me to go to bed.

Please feel free to discuss this among yourselves. I hope you'll at least attempt to reach out across the aisle and say hi to your new neighbors.
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Not-So-Smart
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UTC quote
I for one welcome our new three wheeled overlords.

have fun finding parts, bitches. it's gonna be all like 1999 up in this piece!

-g
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UTC

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UTC quote
I don't think sufficient thought has been spared for the users. Now I'm going to have to wade through twice as many posts to find the articles of intrest.
When searching I presume I won't be able to just search for NSM related posts, I'll get things which are even less relevant than the modern stuff.

Sembra una vespa, unless it's an MP3 where it's "sembra una granchio" (or is that "sembra una stronzo")
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
...
The original target audience for NSM was largely modern Vespa owners who also owned vintage bikes. I expect most of those people will remain at MV.
I get it and it is your forum for things that YOU are interested in. I can easily see that most NSM participants don't fit in your intended group(owning BOTH types) and it appears that you are willing to say goodbye to them when they leave as you expect them to. This will DEFINITELY reduce your work load.

I've also tried to keep my posts civil,and only stated facts,asked questions or offered suggestions. Here's one: Why don't you make an effort to get more mods?

I guess if 'evicted' Or the 'landlord' installs a 24 hr carwash under my apartment I can 'move' and start over elsewhere, but I sure don't want to. I don't want to stay where I'm not really welcome either.
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UTC quote
I check out NSM and GD pretty much daily and other sections now and again except for MP3 which I've never looked at. For me it's not like comparing a Mustang and a Camaro but more like a Mustang and a Prius. This is really the best site that I've found for vintage Vespas and I'd hate to see it go to shit. Please reconsider.
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UTC quote
he must have been on crack for nine days


1999 yep
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UTC quote
Re: ATTENTION: NSM and MP3 forums are now MERGED!
jess wrote:
synergy
Yep, I see that, made by the same company...

As for the logical, it's not fleas that have me scratching...
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UTC quote
Whatever. I try my best to overlook half the posts on NSM, so skipping over a few more posts (MP3 ones) won't bother me much.

JamesJohn will be bummed to find out the MP3 doesn't have a carburetor to rebuild.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Honestly, I expected more bitching from the MP3 crowd than the NSM crowd. I kind of expected that most NSM people would just stomp off to ScootRally and that would be that.

Hey, at least you vintage guys have someplace else to go.
exhibit D

I see where you are going with this: make it undesireable makes for less members being on and less sifting through posts to moderate.


How many modern Vespa owners actually look through the vintage and/or MP3 section of this forum?
UTC

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UTC quote
I am saddened and very disappointed by this merger.

I don't use this forum for social activities or to interact with others with whom I have no common interest: I use it to further my interests in one thing, my mp3.

That forum (as it was) has been a wonderful aid to many many people, of all different ages, backgrounds and countries. If "we" are not satisfied with the forum, many will drift off to somewhere else that serves their needs.

It is going to be a real time consuming pain to search through all the non-applicable posts now.

I believe this merger is a real backward step that will no longer serve either group well and may well lead to a reduced membership.

I really hope the merger can be 'undone".
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