Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:39 pm

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 175
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 175
Location: Boise Idaho
Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:39 pm linkquote
I am in the process of tearing down my Stella's engine. The crankshaft is shot ( 2005 2t W/ 4000miles) ! I pulled the cylinder and head off this afternoon as I continue my disassembly. Has anyone else had the crankrod get extremly loose (in a side to side motion) on the crankshaft ? I'll try and get a couple of pictures tomorrow .
will c.
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 pm

Molto Verboso
Footsie?
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Footsie?
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Los Angeles
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 pm linkquote
Not too many Stellas here on this forum.

You might have better luck on the Stellaspeed forums?

http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:13 pm

Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
 
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:13 pm linkquote
The Stella has an LML motor in it.. they are notorious for having weak cranks.. I bought an LML motor to use as the basis for one of mine, and the 1st thing I did was swap the crank and change the bearings and seals.. after that it's been Solid...

If you read around a bit, you'll find the same info about the shotty cranks... it doesn't surprise me at all.. too bad.. it'd be nice if they used a better crank and put some better bearings in the motors. they'd be solid.

Sorry to hear about your problem... get yourself a Tamini crank.. there are other quality options as well.... Scooter Mercato has some good quality budget cranks I believe!

Cheers
Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:21 am

Lurker
LML 125 two stroke
Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Brussels
 
Lurker
LML 125 two stroke
Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Brussels
Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:21 am linkquote
It's known that the LML engines had crank problems, this problem was solved for LML engines build from 2011. Every engine before that building year risks to have a crank problem.
Cheers
makke
Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:03 am

Molto Verboso
59 Vespa, 65 Vespa, 66 Vespa, 57 Vespa
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 1323
Location: Portland Oregon
 
Molto Verboso
59 Vespa, 65 Vespa, 66 Vespa, 57 Vespa
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 1323
Location: Portland Oregon
Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:03 am linkquote
My Stella has 3800 miles on it... I'm getting nervous... maybe I'll be a survivor?
Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:15 am

Lurker
74' Li150S, 72' NYPD Li150S, 66' BB
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Chattanooga
 
Lurker
74' Li150S, 72' NYPD Li150S, 66' BB
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Chattanooga
Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:15 am linkquote
I had this discussion with someone recently. I will not buy a Stella unless it has a rebuilt engine with a mazzi crank in it. Well, any well known named crank. The stock Indian ones that came in them work junk.
Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:30 am

Hooked
Stella
Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 272
Location: Tampa, FL
 
Hooked
Stella
Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 272
Location: Tampa, FL
Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:30 am linkquote
My Stella Crank went out with about 3,000 miles. Seized up while idling.

I replaced the crank, bearings and seals and it has been solid.

I put the budget scooter mercado crank it. It's been just fine. If you have the cash put a better one in and you are done if you plan on kitting it.

They are okay engines. When tearing mine apart, we noticed some case machining wierdness. But they are acceptable overall.

Once you're done, you should be done with the LML quirks. (oh except the electrical. That sucks too)
Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:41 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:41 am linkquote
arpark wrote:
My Stella Crank went out with about 3,000 miles. Seized up while idling.

I replaced the crank, bearings and seals and it has been solid.

I put the budget scooter mercado crank it. It's been just fine. If you have the cash put a better one in and you are done if you plan on kitting it.

They are okay engines. When tearing mine apart, we noticed some case machining wierdness. But they are acceptable overall.

Once you're done, you should be done with the LML quirks. (oh except the electrical. That sucks too)
The econOmy crank from SM is a fantastic crank. I have even used them in race engines with a conrod swap and machined webs. I rate the fit and materials of that crank better than Mazz's.

Don't let the word "economy" scare you off.
Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:31 am

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 175
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 175
Location: Boise Idaho
Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:31 am linkquote
I was wondering if others have had the same issues. I am currently working on a P200E engine build project for my 2T. Hopefully I'll have the project finished by early next week.

will c.
⬆️    About 2 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:18 am

Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
 
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:18 am linkquote
BUMP:

to confirm (and apologies, I've read the answer to this before on here but can't find it now), when did LML repair their crank problems?

I read they came back from strike in 2008 and the problem was fixed but then 2009 had even worse problems. is 2010 the start of the 'good year' crank/bearings wise?

Last edited by bigben on Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:12 am; edited 2 times in total
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:29 am

Ossessionato
'20 300GTS Super Tec '09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2611
Location: Midway, Kentucky
 
Ossessionato
'20 300GTS Super Tec '09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2611
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:29 am linkquote
I recently came across a '08 Stella with a seized motor with 6K miles. Tried buying it but someone stepped up and paid way too much for it. The motor failure looked to be the result of a shoddy crank.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:54 am

Hooked
1980 p200e, 2005 Stella w/ Sidecar, 2006 Triumph Scrambler
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 429
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 p200e, 2005 Stella w/ Sidecar, 2006 Triumph Scrambler
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 429
Location: Chicago
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:54 am linkquote
Replace it, the wobble will cause a ring to break on a sunny day on a wooded street. You will be stranded on the median, watching your friends drive off for BBQ and beer. You will be thankful for the shade, but all alone.

Don't be that guy.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 pm

Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 717
Location: Seattle
 
Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 717
Location: Seattle
Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 pm linkquote
Re: stella crank question ; failure issues
Kaveman91 wrote:
I am in the process of tearing down my Stella's engine. The crankshaft is shot ( 2005 2t W/ 4000miles) ! I pulled the cylinder and head off this afternoon as I continue my disassembly. Has anyone else had the crankrod get extremly loose (in a side to side motion) on the crankshaft ? I'll try and get a couple of pictures tomorrow .
will c.
The cranks on that year Stella all seem to fail at 5k miles. Almost like clockwork. You're not alone.

Do as others say: replace with good quality crank, replace bearings, seals, shifting cross (cruciform), and maybe a new set of rings (if necessary).

Best of luck!
Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:06 pm

Addicted
Stella 2T, P200, Rally 180 Euro
Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 627
Location: Camden, ME
 
Addicted
Stella 2T, P200, Rally 180 Euro
Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 627
Location: Camden, ME
Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:06 pm linkquote
From what I've read or been told, is the some cranks has too close of a tolerance on the big end. If you pull the top end off and feeler gauge the big end and find it tight, you should replace. If not, it should be fine.

I think it was about .5mm that Rob Hodge has stated before. I checked my 09 and it was just shy of .5mm so Im riding mine out.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:49 pm

Addicted
Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 918
Location: The Bank
 
Addicted
Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 918
Location: The Bank
Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:49 pm linkquote
Willie B wrote:
I recently came across a '08 Stella with a seized motor with 6K miles. Tried buying it but someone stepped up and paid way too much for it. The motor failure looked to be the result of a shoddy crank.
Heres an 03 that supposedly has zero miles. http://asheville.craigslist.org/mpo/4835401585.html I think the price is on the high end of fair. It says "new" but looks like its been sitting in that pile of leaves for 12 years.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:57 pm

Ossessionato
'20 300GTS Super Tec '09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2611
Location: Midway, Kentucky
 
Ossessionato
'20 300GTS Super Tec '09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2611
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:57 pm linkquote
panchoboots wrote:
Willie B wrote:
I recently came across a '08 Stella with a seized motor with 6K miles. Tried buying it but someone stepped up and paid way too much for it. The motor failure looked to be the result of a shoddy crank.
Heres an 03 that supposedly has zero miles. http://asheville.craigslist.org/mpo/4835401585.html I think the price is on the high end of fair. It says "new" but looks like its been sitting in that pile of leaves for 12 years.
I have the motor, just not sure I want to give up one of my sculptures at the moment



Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:50 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:50 pm linkquote
I was probably closer to 10k miles on my '05 Stella when I blew it up. No crank failure, but chipped a gear on the cush drive and cracked a ring, so grenaded both top & bottom end.

The stock crank doesn't have any play in it, but it had other issues so I replaced it with a Worb5 flowed crank from SIP. It's been solid so far, but I'm still at less than 1000 miles on the rebuild.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Seattle
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Seattle
Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:25 pm linkquote
bigben wrote:
BUMP:

to confirm (and apologies, I've read the answer to this before on here but can't find it now), when did LML repair their crank problems?

I read they came back from strike in 2008 and the problem was fixed but then 2009 had even worse problems. is 2010 the start of the 'good year' crank/bearings wise?
it isn't a year thing... it's just some cranks eery so often were assembled with too tight tolerances. i know i've posted the numbers and the details on here more than once. go digging. i'd look it up, but 10 hr shift in the shipyard, coupled with a 3 hr union meeting, plus a couple hours dealing with keeping hodgespeed going has me worn out.

if you can't find the thread i'm talking about, let me know and i'll dig out my old notes... probably friday is the soonest i'd have time.
Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 pm linkquote
I'm just keeping the chair warm so thought I'd dig it out -
rob hodge wrote:
It isn't a year issue, and it isn't a quality issue.

It's a tolerance issue. And it isn't as widespread as it seems. It's just that generally all dead stellas end up in the hands of scooter people. And scooter people network.

I'd have to dig thru old emails to/from a few different LML importers to get the exact numbers but it came to a 2% failure within warranty and like 5% (if i rember right) within 5 years.

The big end bearings LML used were actually imported from germany, as a side note.

The issue is that LML had a problem with every so often pressing a crank too tight, and this doesn't leave enough of a gap for lubrication. The actual failure is caused by a bearing running hot, and the cage that holds the rollers evenly apart failing.

From the hard data on failures, it do0esn't matter kitted to the nuts or stock. If the tolerances are too tight it will fail.

I'd run an LML crank even in a kitted bike, if i had checked the big end gap and found it to be corect. If too tight, no.
From here - Stella: A few performance questions
Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:55 am

Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
 
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:55 am linkquote
Ginch,
that links funny because if you read it, it has me asking basically the same question on Stella crank concerns, and Hodge starting a speech with how he worked 40 hours at the docks, just like this thread.

Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:49 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:49 pm linkquote
Ha ha! Yeah I left that bit out... we'd already heard it.
Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:54 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:54 pm linkquote
Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:11 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8166
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:11 pm linkquote
^^^^ Very funny!!!
⬆️    About 5 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8705
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8705
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 pm linkquote
Ginch, after someone was looking for this wrote:
I'm just keeping the chair warm so thought I'd dig it out -
rob hodge wrote:
It isn't a year issue, and it isn't a quality issue.

It's a tolerance issue. And it isn't as widespread as it seems. It's just that generally all dead stellas end up in the hands of scooter people. And scooter people network.

I'd have to dig thru old emails to/from a few different LML importers to get the exact numbers but it came to a 2% failure within warranty and like 5% (if i rember right) within 5 years.

The big end bearings LML used were actually imported from germany, as a side note.

The issue is that LML had a problem with every so often pressing a crank too tight, and this doesn't leave enough of a gap for lubrication. The actual failure is caused by a bearing running hot, and the cage that holds the rollers evenly apart failing.

From the hard data on failures, it do0esn't matter kitted to the nuts or stock. If the tolerances are too tight it will fail.

I'd run an LML crank even in a kitted bike, if i had checked the big end gap and found it to be correct. If too tight, no.[
From here - Stella: A few performance questions
I have one of these in my Super and was getting worried by this recent event: Full Seize

Looks like I ought to pop the top end off and see how much wiggle I have in the big end bearing?
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:25 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:25 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Ginch, after someone was looking for this wrote:
I'm just keeping the chair warm so thought I'd dig it out -
rob hodge wrote:
It isn't a year issue, and it isn't a quality issue.

It's a tolerance issue. And it isn't as widespread as it seems. It's just that generally all dead stellas end up in the hands of scooter people. And scooter people network.

I'd have to dig thru old emails to/from a few different LML importers to get the exact numbers but it came to a 2% failure within warranty and like 5% (if i rember right) within 5 years.

The big end bearings LML used were actually imported from germany, as a side note.

The issue is that LML had a problem with every so often pressing a crank too tight, and this doesn't leave enough of a gap for lubrication. The actual failure is caused by a bearing running hot, and the cage that holds the rollers evenly apart failing.

From the hard data on failures, it do0esn't matter kitted to the nuts or stock. If the tolerances are too tight it will fail.

I'd run an LML crank even in a kitted bike, if i had checked the big end gap and found it to be correct. If too tight, no.[
From here - Stella: A few performance questions
I have one of these in my Super and was getting worried by this recent event: Full Seize

Looks like I ought to pop the top end off and see how much wiggle I have in the big end bearing?
Hard to say. I've had two different Stellas over the years. One of the cranks let loose at 2400 miles, and on the other one it was at 2650 miles. I brought it up to my local mechanic, and he said that he's replaced about 25 cranks in the Stellas. He said that the average miles on the speedometers that came in for crank damage was about 2500 miles. It was probably about 8 years ago that i brought it up to him. He also said that he rarely ever sees Stellas that need a new crank anymore...but that's because he's replaced all the local Stella owner's cranks already with a quality unit. I usually just get my cranks rebuilt by my local moto mechanic wizard. I keep the stock webs (whether it's a Stella or a P) and use a Italian con rod. My guy also can cut in a oil notch for both the big and small end bearings.
⬆️    About 4 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:09 am

Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:09 am linkquote
I, like many others, am tackling to dreaded Stella crank replacement. My Stella is still in good working order however, and I would like to proactively address this weak link before catestropic failure occurs!
I have ordered an engine stand and an Economy crank from SM. Does anyone have a good idea of the other parts needed? Scooter Mercato offers a "rebuild kit", but I'm not sure if that is sufficient. I also hear people talking about a "seal kit". Is that the rebuild kit mentioned or something else? The bike only has 2k on the clock. Do I need to replace rings etc.?
I would also imagine some specific tools would need to be bought for removing and installing the crank, bearings etc.
My plan is to keep things in factory condition, so I'm not really interested in performance parts.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated!
Steffan
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:32 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6243
Location: Nashville
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:32 am linkquote
First off, if they Stella's crank hasn't failed by now, it's probably not going to.

If the bike is in good running order other than that, I'd suggest leaving it alone, because odds are, you're not going to make it more reliable on your first try unless you have prior experience rebuilding motors.
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:39 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:39 am linkquote
smarley wrote:
I, like many others, am tackling to dreaded Stella crank replacement. My Stella is still in good working order however, and I would like to proactively address this weak link before catestropic failure occurs!
I have ordered an engine stand and an Economy crank from SM. Does anyone have a good idea of the other parts needed? Scooter Mercato offers a "rebuild kit", but I'm not sure if that is sufficient. I also hear people talking about a "seal kit". Is that the rebuild kit mentioned or something else? The bike only has 2k on the clock. Do I need to replace rings etc.?
I would also imagine some specific tools would need to be bought for removing and installing the crank, bearings etc.
My plan is to keep things in factory condition, so I'm not really interested in performance parts.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated!
Steffan
Those economy cranks are made in Taiwan by Nice Rich, Inc. They are actually very good quality but do suffer from tolerances issues from time to time. Nicerich.com.tw

I would pass on a rebuild kit and buy higher quality items that you actually need: seals, gaskets, clutch plates, cruciform, etc. I would get the engine opened to see what else you may need.
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:40 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1532
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:40 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
First off, if they Stella's crank hasn't failed by now, it's probably not going to.

If the bike is in good running order other than that, I'd suggest leaving it alone, because odds are, you're not going to make it more reliable on your first try unless you have prior experience rebuilding motors.
There is a lot of wisdom here.
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:06 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2934
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2934
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:06 am linkquote
smarley wrote:
I, like many others, am tackling to dreaded Stella crank replacement. My Stella is still in good working order however, and I would like to proactively address this weak link before catestropic failure occurs!
I have ordered an engine stand and an Economy crank from SM. Does anyone have a good idea of the other parts needed? Scooter Mercato offers a "rebuild kit", but I'm not sure if that is sufficient. I also hear people talking about a "seal kit". Is that the rebuild kit mentioned or something else? The bike only has 2k on the clock. Do I need to replace rings etc.?
I would also imagine some specific tools would need to be bought for removing and installing the crank, bearings etc.
My plan is to keep things in factory condition, so I'm not really interested in performance parts.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated!
Steffan
How much are you looking to spend? If it were mine and I had the funds, and the motor torn that far apart. I would be looking at a big bore kit, if that isn't in the plans take a look at the ports such as the exhaust and optimize it as much as possible. As for replacing the crank they usually failed around 5000 miles, mine spun a bearing and ruined a case half. Get new high quality bearings also for the crank if it isn't on your list.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:11 am

Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:11 am linkquote
Thanks you guys,

Just to check the group philosophy, it's better to wait for a catestrophic failure and possibly replace the case/cylinder/piston along with the crank?
It seems like forum members talk about 2.5k Stella crank failures and I'm right around the corner. Im really not looking forward to buying a whole new Stella motor.

Thanks again for your help,

Steffan
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:13 am

Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:13 am linkquote
Thanks Chris,
While money is not a big issue, I would focus on reliability and stick to factory specs. Going 50+ mph on 10" wheels is thrilling enough! 😂
Steffan
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:24 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2934
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2934
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:24 am linkquote
smarley wrote:
Thanks you guys,

Just to check the group philosophy, it's better to wait for a catestrophic failure and possibly replace the case/cylinder/piston along with the crank?
It seems like forum members talk about 2.5k Stella crank failures and I'm right around the corner. Im really not looking forward to buying a whole new Stella motor.

Thanks again for your help,

Steffan
I can't say I would use the corrective maintenance vs preventative maintenance strategy, that strategy is usually used when the part is cheaper to replace. If you are in a position to replace the crankshaft, replace it. I think what some people maybe saying is take it apart, replace the crankshaft and bearings, as that is your goal to prevent the failure. Then inspect internal parts and replace what needs to be replaced. As I said mine had a bearing go bad, ruin a crankshaft and a case half. If someone had replaced the crankshaft and bearings, money would have been saved along with paperwork. In Minnesota for instance you will need to get the title fixed because the motor number is recorded on the title for theft reasons.
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:43 am

Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:43 am linkquote
Thanks Chris,

I think we're on the same page, as crank replacement is cheaper than crank/case/piston/cylinder post-failure!

Steffan
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:46 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:46 am linkquote
GickSpeed wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
First off, if they Stella's crank hasn't failed by now, it's probably not going to.

If the bike is in good running order other than that, I'd suggest leaving it alone, because odds are, you're not going to make it more reliable on your first try unless you have prior experience rebuilding motors.
There is a lot of wisdom here.
Or maybe that the scooter still has fairly low miles on it still, so that's why no failure? Through first and second hand experience, i'm still pessimistic of their cranks.
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:55 am

Hooked
Stella 2T 150, Honda C70
Joined: 25 Sep 2019
Posts: 258
Location: Seattle
 
Hooked
Stella 2T 150, Honda C70
Joined: 25 Sep 2019
Posts: 258
Location: Seattle
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:55 am linkquote
If you're going to take it apart to replace the crank you might as well replace the rubber and seals at the same time. On my 2008 Stella, almost everything rubber in or around the engine has rotted and been replaced. Also, it doesn't hurt to replace the cruciform at the same time if you've gone so far as to split the case. I think the bearings are all probably fine, i replace mine because there was so much bronze floating around in the case from when mine seized.

You already have the crank, so its about $130 to replace everything else that you might want to when you have the engine out including the bearings. Here is the list of what I ordered:

1 Engine, Hardware for Cush Drive 125/150 LF $3.00 CUSH-HARD-150
1 Engine, O-Ring, Clutch Cover $1.55 17781
1 O-Ring Clutch Arm LF $0.52 S 06708
1 O-Ring Kickstart O-ring LF SF $0.52 S 06721
1 Engine, Split Pin, Rear Hub (Castle) Nut $0.62 S 12787
1 Bearing, Engine, Small End 15mm $8.09 93233
1 Clutch, Washer, Tab, For Clutch nut $0.57 22313
1 Engine, Woodruff Key, Clutch Side $0.93 97
1 Engine, Woodruff Key, Flywheel $1.13 267
1 Engine, Seal Kit PX $15.49 SEALKIT-PX
1 Engine, Gasket Set for 5 Port Engine $11.84 472133
1 PX, Cruciform Flat Piaggio $25.97 223225P
1 Bearing, Engine, Main Bearing, Large $23.34 97804
1 Bearing, Engine, Flywheel Side, P $17.63 133068

Some of those o-rings also come in the gasket set but the Stella has two o-rings on the kickstart shaft and and the main drive shaft. There are a couple other small differences (the keyed washer on the cush drive does not fit the Stella so you'll need to reuse your old one, and some other little things I don't remember). Also its worth replacing the seals behind the brake backing plate. Lastly, you might as well replace the fuel and oil lines if you haven't done that yet, the original ones get hard and crappy pretty quick.

The gasket set does not come with the gasket that goes between the carb and the reed valve, and it probably makes sense to rebuild the carb just because you'll want to, so add that in.

If you want to boost the performance too, de-restricting the engine (exhaust, air filter, rejet) gives a nice bit of performance boost without really changing the overall setup and reliability. I can give you the jetting and other info if you want.

Keep in mind that you do need a couple specialized tools as well. At minimum the flywheel puller and the clutch nut tool. The crank does not come with the flywheel side bearing race installed and the spacer tool is only $5 so its worth it even for just once in your life rather than the stress of trying to grind the incorrectly seated race off your brand new crank (don't ask me how I know). Also once you're in there you'll find 50 other things that need attention, fuel lines, electrical boots, etc. There is definitely the potential for project creep so it makes sense to get it all apart before you start ordering parts or you'll end up spending 4x the shipping you'd normally spend.

But, it is doable as long as you have a good set of hand tools, a torque wrench, and the ability to follow directions.

hal
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:39 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3644

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:39 am linkquote
...and don't forget a new brass thrust spacer washer thingy that goes in the bottom of the clutch basket. I don't know the part number and i can't remember if the Stella uses the same one as the earlier P series or the later Cosa clutch. Those seem to wear out fairly often. I usually buy 5 of them at a time for spares.
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:14 pm

Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:14 pm linkquote
Thanks to all for the guidance and special thanks to Hal for the list of needed bits and pieces to pull the project all together. I appreciate that!
First round of parts on order!

Steffan
  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

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