Modern Vespa

Coming home from work today there was an idiot riding a scooter styled e-Bike. He was riding close to the curb, but didn't bother to stop for any of the red lights. He would come to the intersection and deke around making a semi-u turn.

Only a matter of time before that catches up with him. It won't be pretty when it happens.

Sounds like he'd have been an idiot on any sort of bike. Or are you suggesting that the e-bike made him ignore traffic rules?

I'm sure he would be an idiot on any bike, but my point is that many people who ride bicycles and e-Bikes think they are immune from following the rules of the road. The fact that this particular bike was scooter styled doesn't do anything to help other driver's attitudes toward scooter riders. They will just see a jerk on a scooter.

Agreed. I just don't understand it.

I rode an E-bike for 5 years before finally graduating to a scooter. I used to see plenty of people on bikes and E-bikes absolutely ignore red lights and stop signs. I don't get it. It's more than dumb, it's dangerous...

I agree - here in London, cyclists rarely seem to stop for red lights. So much so that when I was walking along the road today, and a lady cyclist actually stopped at the red light when the pedestrian crossing was green for me, I had to stop myself saying thank you - I wouldn't even think of doing that for any other type of traffic.

What I don't get is that it's both completely illegal, and done by the most vulnerable of all road users. I recently saw a guy on a bike, no helmet, duck out of a collision with a car because he thought that running a red light on a THREE LANE road was a good idea...

I've taken up commuting by bicycle lately. All I can say is, it's extremely common to run red lights on bicycles in NYC (and at times, actually the safer option). I don't think e-bikes are legal here, but there are plenty of them on the streets. They basically behave like any other bicycle.

Brendan

I see plenty of people on motorscooters, e-scooters, skateboards, motorcycles, bicycles and cars all behaving like the rules of the road just don't apply to them.

Idiocy on the roadways is universal. People do factor their choice of vehicle into their own backwards logic justifying their actions - "Doing X is ok because I'm only on a Y." - and I'm not denying that that leads to an above-average incidence of dumbassery amongst people who prefer certain conveyances.

But ultimately what's at fault is not the vehicle but their own bad actions. We all have a choice how to behave when we get on the road. I see as many people driving their 4-wheeled automobile the wrong way for half a block on a 1-way street "because it's not even a block" as I do cyclists running red lights "because I don't have a motor".

The part of every vehicle that needs adjusting is the "nut behind the wheel".

I will agree with you on Idiocy on the roadways is universal and a lot of people behind the wheel probably should not be but bicycles running red lights is the norm, cars driving the wrong way down a one way not the norm. Sure it happens but if happened as much as you are describing it would be complete chaos. At lest it would be in Chicago if that were the case. They are putting in more bicycle lanes which I think is helpful but if you ride a bicycle please come to a complete stop at the stop light/sign.

I also live in the Chicago area and often drive in both downtown Chicago and the northern suburbs. I understand the idea of sharing the roads with bicycles, especially as I also enjoy biking. Unfortunately the bikes want to share the roads but not follow the rules of the roads. I often see that when I am on my scoot as the road I love to take is also a favorite of the bikes. They do not stop at stop signs or follow any of the other rules of the road, yet they want the other drivers to share the road. It seems to me that you can't have it both ways. Share the roads to me means to follow the rules of the road. But perhaps I am just over thinking. I would be curious what others think.

Larry

Larry, it sounds like we are in complete agreement.

Is that part of keeping Austin weird?

Yes I believe they felt that the bike lanes in Chicago were good for bikes but I think they are going to unfortunately lead to more accidents, at least based on what I have seen so far.


Larry

What do you do?

I think he'd be an idiot if he just rolled right through them without looking.


"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
― George Carlin

Don't speed, don't rolling stop?

I ride in an industrial area. Full of cars, and lots and lots of trucks. Very heavy traffic. Around Midway Airport in Chicago.

You better believe I don't make a full stop with an 18 wheeler right behind me. Rolling stops only. If you have a problem with this...oh well.

Having lived here for over 20 years and in the greater Austin area for almost 40, I can assure you this post-dates the golden age of Austin weirdness.

Must be all them carpetbaggers from Californy.

California!!!!

What's a stop sign??!!

A guy slowly rolls past a stop sign and is immediately pulled over by a cop.

"Didn't you see the stop sign sir?" "Sure I saw it. Didn't you see me slow down?" "Step out of the car sir." The driver get out of the car and the cop starts wailing on the guy with his PR 24. "Now sir, let me ask you a question; Do you want me to slow down or do you want me to stop?

My favorite is the New York motorcycle road test. The instructor said: "when you come to a stop sign, the examiner is going to want to see you put both feet down. We all know this is the only time you're going to do this, but just for the purposes of the test, you'll need to do it."

Brendan

Interestingly, in the UK it'd be a 'minor' against you on a motorcycle test to use both feet when stopped - you're expected to use just the left foot on the ground - the right controlling the rear brake. So scooter riders are advised when taking their test to remind the examiner that they don't have a foot brake, so can use both feet.

Sure, but once stopped, you may need to put your right foot down to keep from falling over. You then have your front brake to keep you stopped.
I rarely use the rear break anyway (on my clutched bikes).
Sometimes I think that those who make-up such test aren't very experienced riders; and those administering them are stuck in a non-thinking "verbatim compliance" mindset.

My view is use whatever means available in order to keep the shiny-side-up.

Similar to UK standard over here when we do our motorcycle test, stopping means left leg down, right foot and right hand engaging the both front and rear brakes.

That would prove you weren't 'in control' in the first place, or hadn't anticipated adequately. So you then have the best control of both throttle and brake? Thought not... Oh dear. I agree in some respects - but not in the case of the on-road part of the UK motorcycle tests. Agreed.

No. It doesn't. The fact that I did not drop my bike after stopping safely is the best proof there is supporting the fact that I was in control of my bike. Furthermore, no one can anticipate everything that could possibly happen. Each situation is different; uneven pavement, high winds, animals/people running out in front of you, etc. So, you may need two feet on the ground.
Let's be realistic, if you ride long enough, chances are you are going to go down at some point. Absolutely, if by "best" you mean I am in control of my bike. Then again, I can only speak for my own skill level. I'm surprised that you haven't been taught that most of your breaking power comes from your front brake (motorcycles, not scoots). The rear brake definitely helps; but, is not a necessity and locking the rear wheel is very hazardous and easy to do under heavy breaking. This, you should research, or take a sanctioned motorcycle safety course. A test does not replicate real world situations. It is to demonstrate that you are aware of the minimum requirements and expectations. Sure, tell the examiner what they want you to tell them so you can get your license; but, in the long-run it is going to be your experience and judgment that will enable you to be in the "best" control of your bike. The last sentence I wrote is a simple summation of all that which preceded it. That's the point. So, if you need to put your right foot down, then do so without fear of some "expert" telling you you're wrong.
I guess I'm more of a results oriented person in that way.
As they say "Do what works best for you."

Spend a week in NYC, in particular in the outer boroughs. The delivery guys routinely ride their E-bikes the wrong way up one way streets; on the wrong side of the road, and of course not obeying stop signs or street lights. They wear zero protective gear or flashing LEDs or reflective clothing. When you come close to hitting them, they look at you like your the only one at fault. Same can be said for the doofus hipsters riding their "vintage Schwinns that were probably made in Taiwan anyway",

I have noticed even in Chicago a lot of drivers (not all) will acknowledge they made a mistake with a nod, wave, smile, or awkward jester. Why does it seem like every bicyclist looks or jesters at you (in the car) like the driver made a mistake when the driver did not have a stop sign the bicycle did and the bicyclist almost or did get hit because they did not stop. Some kind of positive jester of guilt would go a long way I think.

O and on the putting both feet down and coming to a complete stop at stop signs on my scooter I do it 100% of the time. Also I use hand jesters 100% of the time to point where I'm going but which ever way I am turning I use that hand to point because I don't think most drivers know them.

That's pretty much the story here in Denver too. I almost creamed a hipster that decided he could just blow the light. The 140db horn brought him out of his fog...

Jester.


Awkward jester.


Hand jester.

At first I didn't want to get into this, because I know the passions it evokes but here goes.


First things first, bicycles are hated by everyone, cars, pedestrians, motorcycles, etc. Every single serious cyclist can/will tell you horror stories about all of the hate. In short, the general opinion is we don't belong anywhere, not on the sidewalks, not in the roadway, not beside the lanes.

We hear it all. We don't follow the rules of the road, we are too slow, we are too fast, we are idiots, we look like dorks in our spandex.

Here is the thing, and when I ask the following questions, answer honestly.

Is it alright for you as a car or motorcycle to pass a bicycle in the lane while it is traveling slower than you?

Is it alright for you to go around a bicycle approaching a stop light or stop sign?

When in line at a stop feature, is it acceptable to go around a bicycle waiting to make a turn and block it's line of vision because you are turning the other way?

When approaching a stop sign, have you as a driver ever rolled a stop?

When walking on a sidewalk, do you feel at risk if a bicycle is also using that sidewalk?

When using a multi-use path, do you as a pedestrian feel that bicycles belong on the same path as you as a pedestrian?

Have you as a voter ever opposed the installation of a bike lane or bicycle specific facility in your region?

If you answered yes to any of these, then you are part of the problem. As a cyclist, and many that I know, we ride with a chip on our shoulders. In most cases, we are far more aware of bike laws than you as a non-cyclist, and in many cases, we will make choices to bend or break those laws for our own safety.

Now, that said, the e-bike mentioned above is an asshat that is setting himself up for a very very bad ending. Several of the follow up posts though speak more to the disrespect bike get than anything else.

In every state in the US, a bicycle is a vehicle, and all of them have varying alterations to the bicycle as a vehicle that give/revoke certain rights from them.

For example, in Georgia, I bicycle ridden by anyone over the age of 16 is vehicle and is forbidden from using the sidewalk, unless it is a multi-use pathway, and even then is not obligated to use it. Nor is a bicycle obligated to use a bike lane at any time. If a cyclists dismounts and walks a bike, the cyclist becomes a pedestrian and is no longer classified as a vehicle.

So from a legal perspective, a cyclist is obligated to come to a full stop for at least 4 seconds at any stop sign. Bear in mind, I commute to work by bicycle a couple of days a week, so I am about to say some things that may piss the non-cyclists in this thread off.

When approaching a Stop sign, I pick and choose how I will stop based upon the flow of traffic and risk. If there is a line of traffic, of more than 4 cars, I will absolutely slip to the side and ride right past those cars at a reduced speed until I reach the 2nd to front car, whom I will then pace through the intersection on it's turn. Technically, this is illegal. Technically I should sit in the lane, and wait my turn as a vehicle. I've done it before (and usually do if the line is short and it's not stupid-hour-traffic). The usual result of this is a two-fold risk escalation. First, at the intersection, I am not treated as an equal, and have on two separate occasions been hit by a driver that did not believe that I had 'turn' at the intersection and they illegally entered the intersection while I was passing through. Second, and FAR more dangerous is the rear ended by the oblivious, or aggressive driver that fails to see, or doesn't care that I am *in* the lane. In both cases, I am doing the legal thing, and *sharing* the road.

Of course, I am also the one injured or dead. I am certain that is a huge consolation to my family.

Georgia recently passed legislation to further "protect" cyclists. It is no longer legal to pass within 4 feet of a cyclist on the road. It isn't enforced. Further more, drivers still get very angry when a cyclist passes them in the same position that the driver passed the cyclist. I've had things thrown at me for riding legally, but as a rule, drivers seem to barely know what is legal for them and routinely get pissed off at cyclists for engaging in the exact same behavior as the drivers themselves.

My point being, those in glass houses shall not throw stones. I am not throwing stones myself, as I have absolutely been known to do things on a bicycle that fall into the asshat category, I have logged over 100k miles in the saddles of my various bicycles ( I currently have 4 that share my miles ) in the last 25 years. Cyclists aren't going away any time soon, and are increasing in numbers. At some point, the us versus them mentality will have to change.

A few years ago, I learned a valuable lesson. I had to change how I thought. When a driver, rider, pedestrian or cyclist did something questionable or truly stupid, I was quick with a nasty comment or a finger. Today, I simply respond with a single, often shouted, word. That word is just 'Careful!'. It is a far more positive, less aggressive response which tends to result in a far more positive and gracious acceptance of the correction.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid that isn't very very permanent.

Or these gestures...

MP3 riders are REAL familiar with that 2nd to last one...

Many states have changed the laws to accept both the old left arm crook for right turn and the right arm point for right turn as equally acceptable. Stopping is still downward crook arm, but is now acceptable using either arm.

Most drivers forgot these once they passed their basic sign exam way back when, if they ever learned them.

As for the guys that are dumb enough to blow a stop when there is no crossing stop, well, that's on them. I'll argue that riding safely, is not always riding within the letter of the law, but stupid is stupid regardless of which side of the law you are on.

Dru, thank you for that. I have been wanting to respond to this thread, but always end up picking the 'just walk away' option.

You summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say.

so without getting into a pissing match and realize that I ride cars, scoots and bikes......you say in your post that you adjust the rules as you see fit. So in my mind the issues are multi-factorial, everyone has good and bad issues. The bottom line is that many people are good and do not cause problems and many people are bad and cause issues. No one is not at fault, either car people, motorized two wheelers, and bikes. As in everything in our world if people would just accept responsibility and cut others some slack we would all be better off. There are few situations that are one-sided........ Just my opinion. Do not wish to start any controversy. Be safe and ride safe and hopefully in the midwest this rain will stop, my scooter is so lonely as it is not getting ridden.Tomorrow does look hopeful though.........

This thread is funny.

I rode an e-bike one day and the battery went dead.

I sat in the middle of the road and didn't know what to do.










A lot of honking.