Modern Vespa

I have read many opinions on exhausts. I am wondering if anyone here has put the Scorpion exhaust from SIP/JL on large frame and what their experience was with regard to performance.

I have a Rally 200, stock, with some increased main jetting that I did after adding a vortex air intake. My current exhaust is stock, and I am sure it is a bit coked up, but not too bad. The look, sound and slight performance increase is all appealing to me, but I do not need to go over 70 mph - which I think feels a bit scary with the 10" wheels and shoe brakes, but I am an old fart and have smashed up a few times in my past. (I destroyed a nice V9A one time... still makes me sad)

I do not mind (actually always a bit fun) adjustments to the carb but would rather not change the crank.

In the advert for this pipe, they suggested that an increased crank and clutch would be needed for proper use of this pipe. A new clutch would be no biggie either, but again, if the crank change is really needed, I would avoid the change.

I know that someday I will change the crank, but it seems like a bit much to claim that the pipe performance will not work without it....especially if it the carb is jetted properly.

I am no expert so please set me straight. Also, any strong opinions on exhausts for the Rally 200, would be appreciated.

Thanks for any responses in advance.

Craig

a pipe alone will do nothing.. especially a big bore thing ... you will more than likely loose top end power ... a simonini will give you a couple more mph after rejetting but i wouldnt bother
youd be better off kitting new crank maybe re gear then put the jl on ... id say the pipe would be the last thing to change

i run a polini 152 with sterling lefty n it pulls like a train .... i also run a standard with sterling righty n its lost power.. both are upjetted to suit

Sip road is getting good review by members on here. Looks stock, sounds ok. Gives a nice boost

It's just a better sounding Sito Plus. Better clearance too, but they are just as prone to rusting after about a year.

What pipe said you need a better crank to run?

I have a Scorpion on my px150 and I would never think to change the crank on it just because of the pipe. How about a link to where you are reading that?

"they are just as prone to rusting after about a year."

That kind of just seems to be the nature of scooter exhausts, especially up here in the rust belt and especially especially in rust belt states that salt there roads in the winter.

Unless you get something in aluminum or I guess stainless and shell out big bucks its going to rust.

Even powder coated exhausts will get a scratch and begin rusting.

Just have to get handy with the grill black. Its just a maintenance thing like replacing brake pads or rubbing the engine with cheetah blood.

I liked the SIP Road pipe. The Sito+ was noisy and dragged the ground on my P200. The SIP on my PX150 was worth the extra money.

SIP Road Pipe

Chuck

I appreciate the replies. A few of you asked about the recommendations to increase crank shaft and add a clutch when adding the racing pipes, and this stated multiple times in the SIP catalogue as the only way to get the performance out of them.

That seems to be consistent with what is being said here.

For someone like me, not really trying to get a race bike here, I like the sound of the SIP road model.

I was not aware that adding the larger pipes would potentially make for power loss on the band that could not be fixed by carb adjustments, so that is a good thing to be aware of.

It seems to me that what people are saying is that the race pipes will necessarilyi require changes in both carb jetting and piston size, shape, stroke etc and potentially timing as well to run smoothly.

I am looking to add a pipe and do jetting, clutch, timing and even piston but I do not want to change the crank unless I have to.

oops, already said that ... anyway, thank you for the help with the process.

gotta go change my brake shoes

Sip road is simply a matter of bolt it on and upjet your carb.

A lot of the sip stuff has instructions that are just copied and pasted from others. I was lookin at stock top end and the instructions were talking bout larger carbs and reprofiling heads. Pinch of salt is needed in a lot of cases

a jim lomas pipe will add power and is available in stainless steel



ive tried a few power pipes on stock barrel px200's and the jim lomas righty is the only one where it hasnt lost too much low down torque to be able to pull fourth gear properly

I had a sip jl pipe on my first 200. Pulled well gave a bit more top room sounded nice too

So you too want to go a little faster, but not crazy? And maybe a 'healthier' sound to match?

I think this Malossi 210 Cylinder Kit could justify a better pipe, and the SIP site doesn't specify a crank change to use it. They do recommend porting your case to match for best results. Lots of ppl here have done that without splitting the cases on an otherwise healthy motor. If your clutch is in good shape AND you drive like an old fart, you could be OK there for now. Changing the clutch is a different job in any case, and something you'd probably want to do if building a fully SIPped out motor.


While the SIP site gives best info, these are also carried here by Mercato & probably others.

Here's SIP's catalog page w/ lots of info. Includes customer testimonial of 132KM/h adding ONLY this kit & a SIP performance pipe. 132KM/h, now that's crazy, 82.0209973753281 miles per hour. No thanks, not even on my Cosa!

What is porting a case? Sounds like drilling a hole into a case. I have not heard of that.

thanks

Oh... I see, (from the SIP catalogue) that the piston installation involves grinding off a bit of the case to match the transfer port... I am trying to picture what that looks like... Is that fairly obvious? I am not sure from the pictures on SIP exactly what they are doing specifically how they are determining what to grind off...something about marking something with a pen or marker...... but it is presented as if it is fairly straight forward stuff

anyone care to clarify the detail of this transfer port case modification procedure for me.... I can just picture me fucking it up.

Sounds like the 210 is a great idea with a pipe, clutch and carb... again. I am just afraid of mucking with a crank or gear box that works well.

thanks for the input... I have not really looked at these kits for a few years, it is amazing how much has continued to improve and how many options there are now. 80 mph.... hilarious... but having a new top speed sometimes means smoother riding at the lower speeds, which is safer.

Craig

I disagree. I found the SIP Road Pipe gave far better performance than the Sito+. However, I will agree that it is definitely prone to serious rusting. If you do get one, do yourself a favor and spray several coats of a high-temp manifold paint on it.

You don't HAVE to match the ports on the case to the ones on the cylinder, just makes it breathe a little better. If you like the kit, here's a complete guide on how to install it. Also, this guy did do the port matching, but no big deal if you don't want to mess with that NOW. He also has instructions for that and you could always do it later if you got the urge.

scooter help is amazing.

looks like I can learn about checking timing also... but that looks like good logical fun.

thanks for the help and input.