OP
@robster avatar
UTC

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Banned
@robster avatar
2012 LX150 Montebianco
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Location: The American Riviera, CA, USA
UTC quote
I'll probably get banned from the forum for expressing an opinion and writing this (since I am a relatively new member), but I have to say that some of the responses that I have read the last few days, as it seems to this observer, to have reached a personal, disrespectful tone... "don't be a dick!", "do whatever the fuck y'all want". Really? Then, a last word or edict from on high is made and the topic is locked down. Nice.

Certain topics seem to elicit major vitriol (can we say floormats?) and now today (or yesterday) a seemingly easy topic to forum on regarding iOS7.

I am a member in good standing of an Audio forum and a Mercedes forum and have not seen the tone that I have seen here on a few topics in the last few days.

What good are the guidelines if they are not followed and by ALL. I hope this is not a "golden rule" scenario that applies to 99% of MV members but not all.

In re-reading the posting guidelines...

"We are striving to preserve a tone of friendly community here."

"Be civil to one another and treat others with respect. Keep it friendly and remember that not everyone shares your particular viewpoint"

"Before posting anything, ask yourself if this is something you would say in person, face to face. If not, you might want to seriously consider your words and whether they really need to be posted".

I guess it is my choice to play in the MV forum sandbox (or maybe not if I get banned for this commentary), and if I don't like it, I can leave. But, I am just expressing my .02 here. I'm not a shit disturber, and I don't plan on being one here on MV, but I gotta say, some of the dialog over the last several days, in a few responses, has not been civil and in keeping with the advertised guidelines.
Nerd emoticon
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
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Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
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UTC quote
I will only point out that there is usually a lot more going on than what you read in particular thread.
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UTC quote
I am with you on this one sometimes people shod use the just walk away button.
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
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UTC quote
As a member, you can and should use the "Report Post" button when you see something you consider a guidelines violation. That serves two purposes. It brings the material to the attention of the moderators and it avoids pubic pissing contests over the questioned post.

The moderators actually have lives to live and do not read every post made. Thus, as a "member of the community" each of us has a role to play on maintaining the level of discourse, both in what one posts and alerting the mods to possible transgressions. In short, there are positive actions available that are more productive than complaining in generalities to the world at large if you have reservations about the content of given posts.
@dugan avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Re: IMHO...disappointing
robster wrote:
a seemingly easy topic to forum on regarding iOS7.
Laughing emoticon

This ranks up there with religion and politics....maybe even higher.
@baron_of_cats avatar
UTC

Member
2012 Vespa GTS 300 Super, Matte Black (aka GTS So Much For Subtlety)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 40
Location: Austin, TX
 
Member
@baron_of_cats avatar
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
I will only point out that there is usually a lot more going on than what you read in particular thread.
I agree, and having moderated several forums in the past, I have solid experience on which to base that agreement. Problem users are usually making trouble in multiple threads, PM conversations, etc. It's a cumulative effect that builds to a decision point, and users who are not actively involved in moderation may not realize the full scope of behavior that went into a decision.

However, my past experience has left me feeling a considerable amount of sympathy for the original post as well.

What puzzles me about the community here, to which I am also still pretty new, is that the mods often make a public spectacle of banning/ridiculing someone instead of just quietly handling it. In other forums I've frequented or moderated the standing rule is that moderation activities should be as non-disruptive as possible. Mods strive to be invisible - not secretive, because if someone asks "why was Thread A locked?" it's reasonable to give them a transparent answer like "Because a few users got out of hand." But invisible...the grease that keeps the machine humming along.

In addition, most forums I worked on had a hard and fast rule that we would never threaten someone with the ban hammer in public. We'd PM them to let them know their actions were bringing them dangerously close, and allow them a few posts to (hopefully, albeit rarely) adjust their behavior to that knowledge.

There's an apparent penchant for public crucifixions on this board, and it does make for a less friendly tone than the posting guidelines would imply. I can live with it, and have been, but I can't say I enjoy it.
@dugan avatar
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UTC quote
Just read the iOS thread.....

I'm not privy to what goes on in terms of moderation behind the scenes, but what is visible in that thread is disappointing.

Wow.
@tomjasz avatar
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UTC quote
It's interesting to see that after two months members know enough about the tone and direction of the forum to know just what's wrong with it. While your comments are noble they're limited to a very narrow view. Wait till we burn the witches before getting to critical. BTW you do know that several of the bad actors have had 3 or more nom de plumes and chances to adjust?
@chad avatar
UTC

Olivia Newton-John
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Olivia Newton-John
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UTC quote
13ers...
@tomjasz avatar
UTC

Grievance Farmer
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UTC quote
You haven't been around for the Apple, Window wars. They suck, further complicated by a forum owner working for a company that could consider references and discussions a conflict of interest. It's a big world out there and as sticky pointed out there's always more to the story.
@jess avatar
UTC

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@jess avatar
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UTC quote
I run this forum as a public service. It consumes far more of my time than it really justifiably should. If you don't like it, you may leave.

It's threads like this that make me want to shut down the forum and delete the backups.
OP
@robster avatar
UTC

Banned
2012 LX150 Montebianco
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Location: The American Riviera, CA, USA
 
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@robster avatar
2012 LX150 Montebianco
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Posts: 70
Location: The American Riviera, CA, USA
UTC quote
Aviator47 wrote:
As a member, you can and should use the "Report Post" button when you see something you consider a guidelines violation. That serves two purposes. It brings the material to the attention of the moderators and it avoids pubic pissing contests over the questioned post.

The moderators actually have lives to live and do not read every post made. Thus, as a "member of the community" each of us has a role to play on maintaining the level of discourse, both in what one posts and alerting the mods to possible transgressions. In short, there are positive actions available that are more productive than complaining in generalities to the world at large if you have reservations about the content of given posts.
I agree that as a "member of the community" each of us has a role to play on maintaining the level of discourse, both in what one posts and alerting the mods to possible transgressions."

For me, the last several days, I've been disappointed with several of the mod replys...IMHO these exceeded the established guidelines re: civility.

Baron of Cats brought up very strong points on other forum approaches to moderation and from my experience, this is what I have seen on other forums.
PM is fully appropriate to members instead of public hanging or threat of hanging for forum ban IMHO. But, what do I know.

I'm not being pollyanish here with my OP and the topic that I am raising (again, I guess if I don't like it, I can quit or walk away, right?) but the public ridicule and response(s) back have been abit over the top.

Just saying...
OP
@robster avatar
UTC

Banned
2012 LX150 Montebianco
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Location: The American Riviera, CA, USA
 
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@robster avatar
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
I run this forum as a public service. It consumes far more of my time than it really justifiably should. If you don't like it, you may leave.

It's threads like this that make me want to shut down the forum and delete the backups.
Then shut it down or be civil! As one member suggested the other day, maybe it's time for a vacation, or at least an apology to the community.

Ban away if you deem it, sir.
@jess avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
robster wrote:
Ban away if you deem it, sir.
Done.

Anyone else want to take a swing?
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
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UTC quote
This forum is the property of another and we are all guests here. I'm pretty sure if you walked into Jess's real home you would be a lot less opinionated and a lot more humble until such time you all knew each other better.

Forget the "other forum" quotes, that's a shallow defense. I was banned from this forum for a bit 6 years ago or so for not realizing that Modern Vespa is not my sandbox and is a gift to me from many others hard work.

It's a great place, why don't you chill out and stick around.

Best,
SDG
@quasi-moto avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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SawStop
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UTC quote
robster wrote:
jess wrote:
I run this forum as a public service. It consumes far more of my time than it really justifiably should. If you don't like it, you may leave.

It's threads like this that make me want to shut down the forum and delete the backups.
Then shut it down or be civil! As one member suggested the other day, maybe it's time for a vacation, or at least an apology to the community.

Ban away if you deem it, sir.
I couldn't agree more, Robster. And this is from someone who has been here from almost day one.
@jess avatar
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UTC quote
Len Smith wrote:
robster wrote:
jess wrote:
I run this forum as a public service. It consumes far more of my time than it really justifiably should. If you don't like it, you may leave.

It's threads like this that make me want to shut down the forum and delete the backups.
Then shut it down or be civil! As one member suggested the other day, maybe it's time for a vacation, or at least an apology to the community.

Ban away if you deem it, sir.
I couldn't agree more, Robster. And this is from someone who has been here from almost day one.
Thanks so much for your support, Len. I wasn't really expecting it or anything, but I wasn't expecting you to repeatedly stab me in the back, either.
@quasi-moto avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
You have it wrong, stabbing in the back is something that is hidden. I am not hiding here.

I appreciate what you have done, and the framework you have set up. This is without a doubt the best Vespa forum on the planet, and it's due to your hard work.

That doesn't negate the fact that when you decree behaviors and then exempt yourself, it undermines the very behaviors you are trying to moderate. So in effect, you aid and abet the continuance of the very behaviors you dislike when you join in by being disrespectful to members, new or otherwise. That's all I'm saying, and I'm saying it in public, not as a stab in the back.

No doubt you won't agree, and I respect your right to do so. But that's my opinion, and my last word on this subject.
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UTC quote
Len Smith wrote:
That doesn't negate the fact that when you decree behaviors and then exempt yourself, it undermines the very behaviors you are trying to moderate. So in effect, you aid and abet the continuance of the very behaviors you dislike when you join in by being disrespectful to members, new or otherwise. That's all I'm saying, and I'm saying it in public, not as a stab in the back.
Generally speaking, I'm disrespectful to people who are on the verge of getting banned, and usually only when they've doubled down on stupid by proclaiming that they have every right to express their opinion (or some such).

If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, then suck it up. I'm not going to apologize for that and the situation is not likely to change.

And the fact that these incidents often happen in public is not accidental, either.
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UTC

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UTC quote
This forum or any other gathering of people without a certain degree of Snark, would be boring.
@monit avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GTS 300
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Is now a good time to announce Australia was just voted the happiest country in the world for 2013.
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
Joined: UTC
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
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UTC quote
Monit wrote:
Is now a good time to announce Australia was just voted the happiest country in the world for 2013.
Sure, stuff that fact down our apparently already fragile uptight fucked-up attack minded American's throats today.

For me it's just a shame that the guy that built and provides this forum for us has to go to work this morning thinking about the crap being thrown at him, that's just wrong folks. At least be disrespectful after 6PM so the guy can drink a beer while you kick his ass in public.

Well played Monet!

Razz emoticon

SDG
@bklyn_quattro avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Monit wrote:
Is now a good time to announce Australia was just voted the happiest country in the world for 2013.
LOL, yes it was, wasn't it
UTC

Addicted
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UTC quote
bah!

I bet you're like me. A very nice person (most people really are) until someone jumps up and down on your last nerve 90x, and then its game time.

Plus sometimes I have work stress, and I take that out on the weak willed Razz emoticon.
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Regardless of our individual opinions, I think it is fair to say that this forum has stood the test of time. It provides an invaluable service to Vespa owners/riders and has created a constructive community of people with common interests. I find it fairly amazing that any new forum member would decide it was his place to lecture the forum, its moderators, and its administrator about how the forum operates or what is useful to others. There is something about anonymity that seems to encourage that kind of chutzpah. It makes it easy to drop in, set off your little bomb, and disappear (or persistently keep reappearing in at least one instance ). Seems like people are less likely to do that when they look one another in the eye in a traditional social situation. I don't think it is a coincidence that forum members begin to lose their anonymity with time, and their sense of community increases. And that is a good thing.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
2010 Vespa Volcanic Black GTS 300 Super "Marta"
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Molto Verboso
@mikeyl avatar
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UTC quote
I have only been a member for a bit over a year, and I am completely happy and satisfied the way the mod's run the show. If I wasn't I'd PM them to voice my opinion and displeasure or I'd leave. I think it's bad form as a guest/member to rake them over the coals in a forum they put much of their free time into.

As far as members getting out of hand, as was said, report the post and stay out of the shit storm if you are uncomfortable. We as members can make the mod's job easy or make it hell and lose the forum. Think before you post!
@bbeckes avatar
UTC

Hooked
2012 GTS 300-"Bambi"
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UTC quote
MikeyL wrote:
I have only been a member for a bit over a year, and I am completely happy and satisfied the way the mod's run the show. If I wasn't I'd PM them to voice my opinion and displeasure or I'd leave. I think it's bad form as a guest/member to rake them over the coals in a forum they put much of their free time into.

As far as members getting out of hand, as was said, report the post and stay out of the shit storm if you are uncomfortable. We as members can make the mod's job easy or make it hell and lose the forum. Think before you post!
^this. I am in the same category, been here about a year, love the forum and appreciate all of the time and effort. Walk away from a discussion or report it then be done with it.

Jess, keep up the good work, this forum has been a tremendous resource for me.
@baron_of_cats avatar
UTC

Member
2012 Vespa GTS 300 Super, Matte Black (aka GTS So Much For Subtlety)
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Posts: 40
Location: Austin, TX
 
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@baron_of_cats avatar
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UTC quote
This forum *is* a gift. An absolute treasure of knowledge for a Vespa newbie like me who has only begun his journey with these magnificent machines.

It might be more akin to a pub where all the beer is free than to a home. As a "business open to the public" it's a place where if I had a poor experience one night as a new regular customer, I might fill out one of those customer comment cards and hand it to the manager on duty. But I'd also recognize that any feedback I had is inherently prepended by the words "Just in case you care..." and accompanied by a wink and a smile.

Because hey, after all...the owner and I both know the place is all about the FREE BEER!

I've said my piece, and management has voiced their response. I consider my participation in this thread amicably concluded. Not gonna look a free beer horse in the mouth more than once. Pass me a pint.
@mutt_the_hoople avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
@mutt_the_hoople avatar
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UTC quote
Same here.... I think I joined about a year ago, and I've been on Modern Buddy a couple of months longer. I like MV a lot and in my own opinion it is very well run. It amazes me how some new people do just what this person did and end up banned. Especially when it is so easy and reasonable to follow the rules and not only not get banned, but also to meet people with at least one shared interest and get lots of terrific info, as well as some pure silliness. And even those who have felt the temporary ban hammer have come back to be great members. Really... If someone is going to be an asshat right from the get go within the first handful of posts... I am all for them getting banned because if they start out that way, they will not get better.

On another note, wow, what the heck is in the air. Saint Louis has been under a cloud of weirdness.... It even got cray-cray at the dog park two days ago. Sheesh. And it's not even a full moon. And then we had a rash of bans here. What's up?
@muriel avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
BV 250
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Location: Virginia & North Carolina, USA
 
Molto Verboso
@muriel avatar
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UTC quote
Mutt The Hoople wrote:
On another note, wow, what the heck is in the air. Saint Louis has been under a cloud of weirdness.... It even got cray-cray at the dog park two days ago. Sheesh. And it's not even a full moon. And then we had a rash of bans here. What's up?
Not sure you're talking about the weather....but if you are, weather has been absolutely crazy here. Pouring here on and off a few days ago...and I mean POURING! Like...oh...I don't know...reservoirs of water!
UTC

The Host with the Toast
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The Host with the Toast
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UTC quote
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
@dutch avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
LXV 150 GTV 250
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@dutch avatar
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UTC quote
As I've said many times before this is the best forum I've ever been on. Bar none.

Jess does a great job and as a moderator of another small scooter forum I have some idea of how much trouble and time he spends making it a great place for all of us to get together.

But as usual there is always some asshat that has to try and screw up the works for the rest of us. I find that by ignoring them it makes my day a whole lot better.
@tor2ga avatar
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Ossessionato
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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Ossessionato
@tor2ga avatar
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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UTC quote
175mws wrote:
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
Nothing feels more liberating than a kilt. Laughing emoticon
@jimmytwonutz avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
LX150, GTS300(black & white), GTS300(red)
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Tor2ga wrote:
175mws wrote:
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
Nothing feels more liberating than a kilt. Laughing emoticon
Or a kilt on a trampoline.... WEEEEeeeeee......
@rae avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
04 Granturismo- boy thats fun to say
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Molto Verboso
@rae avatar
04 Granturismo- boy thats fun to say
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UTC quote
I like the turn this post has taken.
@mutt_the_hoople avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
@mutt_the_hoople avatar
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UTC quote
175mws wrote:
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
are you saying you are free and loving it??? Is you name, by any chance, Kramer?????
@ashbrook avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa GTS Kymco AK550
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Posts: 3199
Location: London UK
 
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UTC quote
Just so people know

I have never met Jess or many of the folk that post on here but I am extremely grateful for their efforts in creating and maintaining this forum. We were all newbies at some stage and the fact that so many of us have stuck around is testament to the brilliance of this forum.

Luckily we are all different people with widely varied backgrounds and personalities and that is part of the attraction of MV. We generally get on with each other despite sometimes heated disagreements. It is always a source of good advice and humour to me.

If I was clever enough and had the time I would create a Vespa forum and it would look exactly like this one.

Nuff said.
@kittysaz avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
White GTS125 - Milo - 2009-2012 Red GTS Super 300 - Watson - 2012 - 2014. Silver Vespa GTS 250 - Carter - 2014
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2892
Location: London, England
 
Ossessionato
@kittysaz avatar
White GTS125 - Milo - 2009-2012 Red GTS Super 300 - Watson - 2012 - 2014. Silver Vespa GTS 250 - Carter - 2014
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2892
Location: London, England
UTC quote
jess wrote:
I run this forum as a public service. It consumes far more of my time than it really justifiably should. If you don't like it, you may leave.

It's threads like this that make me want to shut down the forum and delete the backups.
Aw don't do that jess
Are you ok love?
It must be quite stressful running this forum
As in my job, you can't please everyone
(Actually I can't please anyone but that's why I try to have a positive attitude)
Please don't be cross
Here's a Kitty cuddle
(((((😽))))))
X
@kittysaz avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
White GTS125 - Milo - 2009-2012 Red GTS Super 300 - Watson - 2012 - 2014. Silver Vespa GTS 250 - Carter - 2014
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2892
Location: London, England
 
Ossessionato
@kittysaz avatar
White GTS125 - Milo - 2009-2012 Red GTS Super 300 - Watson - 2012 - 2014. Silver Vespa GTS 250 - Carter - 2014
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2892
Location: London, England
UTC quote
Tor2ga wrote:
175mws wrote:
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
Nothing feels more liberating than a kilt. Laughing emoticon
My niece's husband had a kilt on at a wedding I went to at the weekend
He flashed his naked willy at me and my Lou!!! Whilst sitting opposite!!!
I was
1/ shocked - caught me off guard
2/ impressed - I shall divulge nae more
3/ put off jumbo Sausages for a bit
Kitty
X
@dutch avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
LXV 150 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2471
Location: Logan OH USA
 
Ossessionato
@dutch avatar
LXV 150 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2471
Location: Logan OH USA
UTC quote
Kittysaz wrote:
Tor2ga wrote:
175mws wrote:
I just walked away... I feel liberated kind of like not wearing underwear Wha? emoticon
Nothing feels more liberating than a kilt. Laughing emoticon
My niece's husband had a kilt on at a wedding I went to at the weekend
He flashed his naked willy at me and my Lou!!! Whilst sitting opposite!!!
I was
1/ shocked - caught me off guard
2/ impressed - I shall divulge nae more
3/ put off jumbo Sausages for a bit
Kitty
X
My assistant just gave me a funny look wondering why I'm laughing my ass off.
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