Modern Vespa

Kids,

Ok, so the Rally has been dead now for a few weeks (4-5). We have gone over EVERYTHING. And it appears to be pushing the fuel from the rotary pad to the carb vrs the motor. It has been suggested we rebuild and replace all the seals and such. Looking for an idea that might save us from a complete rebuild. The guy working on it is sharp and I trust him.

Thoughts?

ignition stator coil, condenser, timing??

Yes, Yes, Yes

Rebuilt the Stator, New points, condenser, Ignition coil all European sourced.
Pulled the carb rebuilt it (24/24 new Nov 2012)
Intslled org carb 20/20
New Exhaust April 2012 Swapped it with P200 Last night
Poured fuel directly in to rotary pad and it did not hold when kicked it came out of the exhaust.

Is your rotary pad in good condition? The test uses 2t oil, not fuel to check if it holds.

? You poured gas directly into the intake and it "didnt hold" when kicked? Not sure what you mean by hold? If you put gas down the intake and kicked it, if its not firing at all, then yes the gas will come out the exhaust, thats the only place it should come out. It goes from intake, to crankcase, to jug, and out exhaust.

If you are saying you poured gas in the intake and the rotary pad didnt hold it in the intake, then thats normal too as the crank does not actually touch the rotary pad, so if the engine is not running, there is effectively no seal. It seals from high static pressure drop across the gap only when running. Im not understanding the description here. Is the air fuel mix blowing back up through the carb, is that what your saying? your other post says its coming out the exhaust.

Are you 100% sure you have spark across the plug? is this guy a Vespa person? or just a sharp guy who may have never worked on Vespas?

^^^ what monza says.

I'll bet a dime your plug is wet.You probably flooded it. Turn off gas, pull plug & kick it over ~20 times to dry it out a bit. Get a dry plug(you can test for spark easily now before you put it in) and give it another go without turning gas on until it fires....

If you need to add any gas down the carb, just a teaspoon or so or you'll flood it again. ONLY if you find your plug is dry & you're unsure if carb is OK.

Some spit back thru the carb is normal when kicking it over. This motor ran before you guys 'fixed' it? If so, how/why did it stop running?

Travis we started with that. then did a mix of fuel.

when testing the rotary pad it did not hold anything. It when kicked out vent though the cab vrs the motor. Which tells me its an obstruction in to the engine. Nothing is coming out of the exhaust we tried different one to ensure the one on the ride is not obstructed.

Yes we have spark

Its Af1 and the guy working on it has 15 years + on vintage. So I would call him sharp. My back up guy is Bab Darnell who has written books on these so I would say I have a good team.

Bob Darnell, LOL.

BBS, where you at.

He is not like but he has saved me in the past. And he handed me Ulma Trim for free. I like the guy.

Sorry but I'm confused too. Is the basic problem that it won't start...??

Sorry I miss typed.

Nothing is coming out of the exhaust. But we have pulled and verified there are no obstructions.

Its dead will not run and only backfires. Acts like timing is out but that is spot on when we check it. We have been through a ton of trouble shooting. And have really hit the point its time to open it up just looking did we miss anything.

What's the compression?

120 @15 kicks wot
90 @ 3 kicks.

Stop saying "we" when you don't personally do any of the work yourself.

Do you know that to say that? Quite aggressive.

Torjan,

Before I took to the shop. I spent 5-10 hours going over it working on it and attempting to trouble shoot it. Once over my head, I asked Dustin to work on it. Even he was like you trouble shot it the same way I did and we are both confused. I asked for help that might be something we both missed prior to cracking the engine open.

So yes we do work on it. In fact I am having the scooter taken out to my parents place in the country with AC in the shop to attempt the rebuild on my own. I am ordering the DVD and tools and hope as soon as next weekend we can drop and battle the motor myself. Hoping its simple as gasket, seals, or rings. I from researching the scooter know the history back to about '97 and talked to the people who did the work 15 years ago.

Travis, I will be sending over a parts list latter today.

Trojan,

Here was me pulling the exhaust to ensure no obstruction.

That was on my side walk downtown Austin.

You forgot to offer him some crow cupcake

that should of been "crow p i e" with the words that others type here not sure what's wrong with p i e

Isn't that a smallframe exhaust? DAFUQ is that?

Dats a Rally 180 pipe Fish!

That's a maruo pascoli (sp) rally pipe. We tried a p200 to make sure it was not an issue.

Odd, hadn't seen one before.

Hum did you check timing?

22 deg tdc. New points, condenser, coil.

So it kinda fires then. Just for kicks, why don't you retard it or advance it 5 or 10 degrees and see if it runs at all.
Which one? Look at the slots or flip a coin...

Ok will try

Remove the plug and ground it so it sparks. Attach a timing light. Get inventive and spin the engine with a drill or something. Look for steady timing mark alignment. No jumping around. Not you, the timing marks. I suppose top dead center and your timing have been marked somehow? Swift kicking and looking sometimes works, best with two people.

You're not gonna wanna hear this but condensors are cheap and you CAN get a bad one.

I just went thru this.

I had a point and condensor set I had ordered for a previous bike. It came time to chang on my current bike.

No start. Went theru everything. No start.

So I asked myself what DID I DO LAST.

Went down the street and picked up a new condensor, swapped it, and wala.......it fired right up.

Its worth the 3 dollars to try.


Ask Vader, he witnessed it.

Measured it from tdc marked the case with position remeasured a few times now. Just stopped working

We have swapped all of them wish it was that simple.

Does just stopped working mean you now don't have spark?

Earlier in the thread you said this: "Yes we have spark."

Verify if there is steady spark at the right time before tearing into the engine. Backfiring generally means spark at the wrong time. Make sure the wires to the points and condenser, and the kill wire are good with no nicks. Any nakedness close to metal can cause problems.

It will probably be something simple that becomes an oh shit moment.

Hello

Has the flywheel slipped (snapped woodruff key).

Grumpy

No