Modern Vespa

-1 from me. While it sounds like a noble sentiment in fact sometimes people bring it on themselves by trying to avoid any responsibility because it'll cost them money. Lemme tell you a true story and my model for a successful business.
When I was stationed in California there was a gas station in Mill Valley run by a guy named Fred. Fred was a multimillionaire and an awesome businessman. He hired only the military guys to run his full service gas station because he felt we had the necessary work ethic - you didn't and you were let go. Simple as that. When I say full service, I mean if the customer came in and needed their ash tray dumped and cleaned, their bike put air in the tires - we did it no questions asked.
One day we started getting calls - people were dropping like flies on the commute into San Francisco. It was quickly determined that all the cars that were dying had been filled from one row - we quickly found we had a tank that had cracked and collected water. Shit.
Now here's where Fred demonstrated true business acumen - he not only paid for each and every person their taxi into and from their work, but also paid to have each and every vehicle towed to the shop where we drained, flushed the fuel system, replaced any and all filters, cleaned the tanks and refilled with gas. One vehicle had a leaking tank and even though he was not a regular customer Fred replaced the gas tank. When the head mechanic, Dick, said that he shouldn't replace the tank as it was unlikely to be our fault Fred said "I will not have anyone saying that I tried to avoid my responsibilities as a business owner - replace it."
Yes those folks had a bad morning but Fred made it right with each and every one at great expense - which of course bear in mind is a tax write off as a loss. Now Fred charged 15 cents more for his gas than anyone else - including the cut-rate joint up the street. But I tell you that you could not beat Fred's customers away with a stick - because he treated them with respect and he assumed all responsibility for his customers and their welfare.
So having seen an excellent business model and the results - I have no sympathy for the businesses that treat their customers like a disposable commodity. Treat them right and you've got a customer for life because you've earned their loyalty. Someone's bike dies while it is in your possession - you had responsibility for that bike. It's not like it was ridden in smoking, coughing and acting like it was on its last legs - it was a perfectly functional bike being taken in for routine maintenance and suffered a major mechanical heart attack while in their possession.

Great story and kudos to Fred. His station was at fault because his tanks failed and he in effect cause problems.
Now in Sidecutters issues he is also doing the right thing by having ANOTHER shop diagnose the failure and trying to determine if it could have been a fault caused by someone abusing the scoot on a test ride or if it was just a plain and simple shit happens failure.
Until those results come back no need to keep stirring the pot so to speak.

But BubbaJon, unlike Fred the service station owner in your story, who knew that he (i.e., his leaky tank) was at fault, we have zero evidence that Sidecutter's shop did anything wrong. You can't assume they're shysters just because the engine blew while one of their techs was riding it.

Great story and kudos to the owner, but really apples and oranges. Pretty easy to know the problem there and what happened. Also easy to prove in the event it went to court - I bought gas there and they had water in the fuel.

In this instance, we don't really know and even in the worst case scenario, it is still going to be virtually impossible to prove, as Noth pointed out. Filing suit might make someone feel better, but that will wear off quickly as the lawyer bills roll in, the time requirements to complete affidavits, pleadings etc., then comes time for court appearances. Pretty easy for a claimant to incur way more (out of pocket and value of time) than they could ever hope to recover.

I'm still hoping new shop finds something easy to fix and Sidecutter is back in the saddle soon for low dollars.

In our shop we had a very simple policy: You pay for your mistakes, we'll pay for our's. Personally I think the water-in-gas story misses the point. It's nice that Fred did what he did but in truth it's pretty easy to see how his shop was responsible. As has already been said this is really a case of apples and oranges, not the same thing at all.

And Sidecutter PROVES fault exactly how? Small claims - the onus is still on plaintiff to prove other party committed a tort.

It rolled into the shop with zero symptoms and running like a top. It was brought in for simple preventative maintenance. When he went to pick it up it was dead as a doornail.
As far as fault - well he mentioned the coolant. If they changed the coolant and didn't bleed it properly then that air bubble could very well have prevented proper circulation - maybe none at all. Since the damned temp pickup is in the "wrong" spot (another Piaggio f-up) it won't pick up the engine overheating as it stews in its own juices. I will guarantee that you ride a bike with no circulation for even a couple of blocks you have problems.
Y'all seem to have this notion that nothing the shop could have done would cause the engine to crap out. We don't know *what* they did. But 400's having engine problems is rare to the point I haven't heard of any. So are we to believe that the bad engine fairy touched her wand to it because Sidecutter ran over a squirrel or something? Or is it more logical to believe that something *tangible* was done to cause this serious problem?

I don't agree with your assumption that I [and others] missed the point about how noble Fred was. No one has disputed that; what seems to missing is your own understanding about fair comparison between Fred's unrelated case and Sidecutter's.

Damn; I spent all that time trying to put the situation in legal terms and then you make an analogy that describes it in one sentence; and it was funny too.

who knows what the id10T tech did and it's a cover up.

a solid engine doesn't typically just blow.

break job confused for something else has fluids drained and is taken for a test ride.

I'd have that thing looked over with a fine tooth comb and raise hell at the shop.

It was in their hands and coincidence seems skeptical to me. New hands go through some of those places.

inside info. the tech did NOTHING WRONG. Also the owner did NOTHING WRONG.

Thats all I can say at this point until the owner chimes in some more.

Ewwww.



That is horrible..
That sounds like such a fluke occurrence.
I have never heard of anything like that before.
Had the repair shop seen or heard of one?

Glad you didn't go to a lawyer before a full diagnosis was obtained.
That would have been kinda embarrassing....
As I said before, I have had work done and have dealt with the tech that was riding it when it broke. I just couldn't envision that he could or would have done something to cause the bike to break down...

Wish I had 1600 to loan you to help out...

Sorry to hear that bud - I'm really at a loss how replacing the valves could possibly be a much as the entire cylinder head. Unless of course that costs is simply swamped by the cost of hauling the engine out to fix it. Agreed that a little more is good insurance since a valve-piston collision can cause hidden fracturing of the head.
Hopefully you can start work soon - perhaps you can find a small one-off job to carry you through.

Like I said above, it's not the cost of replacing the valves per se, it's the labor time cost...engine is already apart, the header is off, etc. Putting a new head or the same head back on is the same. But with the labor in removing the old valves, replacing them with the new ones, installing all the new seals, etc. it basically becomes a wash either way versus just getting a ready-to-go head assembly.

I do plan to ask for the old head back so I can have it as a spare or sell it to someone who needs one. Don't see any reason they should get to keep an otherwise perfectly good head.

what part do you need?

Well the good new is it's not the head they're waiting on. Looks like it might be the camshaft (their attachment didn't come through so I don't have the part number to verify yet, going off what they wrote). So, if I'm lucky, Maksor can get ahold of it and I can get this wrapped up...

Which is going to run me...how much? Because the charge on this work order for the "Camshaft with I.P." is $53.99. Which is way, way lower than the number Maksor came up with (dunno why).

Exactly. I'm not sure why there's such a weird price gap going on, but unfortunately, it seems my best option is to stick with letting the shop deal with the part, even if it takes longer. Which sucks, because I was really hoping to do a couple specific trips as rides in August and early September, and possibly the meetup, too.