Modern Vespa

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Your advice please if I may.

I've recently acquired a 1989 PX125E with 7000 miles on the speedo.


The only problems that I can see are to do with the clutch/gears.

If I let the clutch out quickly in 1st gear there is a snatching sound....and sometimes its hard to select 3rd gear but not all of the time.

I've tried the search function but not come up with anything that reads right...



Can I ask for some advice in where I should start to try to diagnose the problem...before I start taking bits apart and making a mess of it....

Thanks in advance


Fabio....

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maybe the corks are dry, or the brass push pin is worn out?

I would just pull it out and have a look.

Would that (corks/brass push pin) cause both of the problems that I'm experiencing?

1st, 2nd and 4th gears engage really well, third only occasionally doesn't select...none of the gears jump out of gear.

In 1st gear if take off is at low revs is smooth and nice, if a little more aggressive take is done then it does the snatching/grabbing/grating sound.

It is the sintered "brass" bush that JJ is referring to. I think he is mistakenly calling it a "pin." You should pull your clutch and take a look.

The pulling out of gear is most likely a different problem.

Am I looking for this ? (in centre of clutch cover on this photo I've found) ?

No. it is inside the clutch assembly.

This ?

Yes, that's it.

Did it just fall off without any work?

Hehe - I wish - no I found these pictures snooching around the net to try to understand what was wrong

I'm guessing that the brass thingamy wears with use?

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Yeah, it goes south after a while. I've used bearing retaining compound on them before with great results.

Brilliant - thanks for the advice - I'm guessing from what I've just read on the net that I can get to the sintered brass bush and replace it without dropping the engine - is this right - or am I misunderstanding?

P200?

Yeah, just pull spare tire, battery and tray, rear tire (and hub is a good way to get more room).

Then stick a looong extension in tgat little triangle of space between the battery tray mounting frame and the frame. You can then get to the clutch nut without lowering engine.

1989 PX 125 E

Samey ?

For sure.

Thanks buddy !!

I had to drop the engine first time changed my clutch. There is a little tab that folds over the clutch nut that you need to unfold to loosen the clutch. I just couldn't do it with engine on the frame.

You can see the folded tab in pic below (at 11 o'clock). Hard to see (and reach) which tab is folded with engine on frame. Not sure how people attack this one with engine still on.

It's a bit of a bitch, but totally doable.. I've done it many times... take a really small flathead screwdriver, or a pick, and unbend that tab.. the washer will come off (some times some needle nose will help) then it's all about getting your clutch nut tool on there and keeping enough pressure (pushing in toward the motor) to keep the tool engaged with the castle nut while you break it free.

like I said, it's not like doing it when the motor is out id the bike, but %100 doable.

Good luck.. you can do it!

With the wheel off you can give yourself more room if you have the scoot propped up, and take off the rear shock. the engine will pivot down and it gives you plenty of room to work.

With air tools its even easier. I had my clutch explode on me because the circlip that holds the basket together came loose randomly. The nut can be a pain to get off, but removing the wheel will make it so much easier.

Make sure that knotch in the crank is pointing upwards or your woodruff key could fall into the case when you pull off the clutch pack..

Clutch rebuild:
http://www.scootermercato.com/Garage/Tech-Tips/Large-Frame-Clutch-Rebuild

Engine Disassemble-Clutch removal is halfway down:
http://www.scootermercato.com/Garage/Tech-Tips/Engine-Disassembly

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In this link there was another link to a sales site for the brass bushing....

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Clutch-Misc-Parts/59365


.... and the description of the item said... "59365: Clutch, Bush, Brass Clutch Spacer Bushing - Brass clutch spacer bushing. A worn brass bushing is the number one cause of a clutch that lurches when engaged from a stop."

...does this "clutch lurch" sound like how I've tried to explain my problem?

I think it does - Thanks

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just do a clutch rebuild. peace of mind is cheap

I 2nd this. It really isn't difficult or expensive.

The sound you are getting is probably the clutch cork plates rubbing together. Could mean they are burnt or worn. Replacing them is a good move.

Figuring out your gear selection issues, probably is something else, but rebuilding your clutch will take a factor out of it. Make sure to check your shifting cables are taut.

Get new cork plates, steel plates, springs, brass bushing (the one you put up the link for) and brass washer. All the parts are the same for a p200 with the possible exception that you might have 6 clutch springs instead of 7 (so order 7). Make sure to soak you cork plates in ND SAE 30 oil for a few hours to overnight before rebuilding.

Not sure of a good parts supply in the UK, but the guides I provided are good to use for the rebuild. You'll seed the castellated clutch tool, and a clutch compressor, but you can make the compressor from a bolt, two washers and a nut.

Good luck.

That's what I was thinking...getting it out is like 3/4 of the rebuild.

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Brilliant.....that's what I'll do...

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I always put in a new woodruff key too.

Hehe...ok I've only just got around to replacing the brass sintered bushing.

I managed to remove the clutch with the engine still in the frame - no problems.

And when I disassembled the clutch the plates looked in pretty good condition, but the brass bushing was loose ( I'm assuming that its usually tightly fitted as I had to carefully drift the new one on)

Re-assembled the clutch ok, and replaced it back in the engine no problems.

However, when i went to kick start the scoot it was as if the clutch was pulled in with no tension on the kick-starter.....I'm guessing that the tension on the cable needs backing off maybe....or have I cocked up somehow???

Odds are the cables too tight. Did you use the same clutch cables and tighten it up where it used to be?

I removed the clutch cover without slackening off the tension on the cable.....

Wow! Howd you manage that?

It was quite easy, I'm guessing that this isn't normal then?

So, by the sound of it, you think that slackening off the tension will sort the problem?

Yea slack off the tension for starters. Whatever tension is in it might be causing the kickstart gears not to spin the clutch & crank.

That was what i was hoping, but it was getting very dark last night and its hard to do by torchlight so i gave up until another day

I'll give it a go tonight and see if i can sort it

Thanks so much (Just clicked your good karma button! )

I do that all the time.. It just pops off.. And pops back on.

Ok, so i'm a bit further on now....

Slackened the tension right off on the clutch cable and it was still doing it, so I dove back under the clutch cover

With the cover off it worked perfectly, so I figured that it was either that the clutch assembly wasn't seated down enough, or that the little cover with the bit of wire was somehow getting in the way

Turns out I hadn't seated the clutch properly

Did you get the autolube gear cog and woodruff key installed correctly? Any luck second go around fitting the clutch and pressure plate?

Yes

The clutch seems to work ok now, just need to adjust the cable properly so it doesn't try to "pull away" slightly in gear with the clutch in....