Modern Vespa

I wonder if this is normal or if I should be concerned:

For the first time today, I lifted both of my hands about 1 cm away from the handlebar (I ride a BV 250) while decelerating from about 30mph. The handlebar started wobbling in an increasing manner. Is this normal? Should I be concerned? When I have both hands on the handlebar, I don't notice any kind of wobble though.

In doing some internet research, I hear all kinds of explanations such as:
could be the result of tire wearing (my tire still has good tread on it)
could be the result of cupping (I don't think I have this, unless I don't know what I'm looking at)
could be unbalanced tires (I wouldn't know if mine are or aren't
could be misalignment
could be just the geometry of the scooter...

I do have handlebar weights on mine.

Should I send this in to the shop for diagnosis, or is it generally the case that when "no-hands" wobble ensues?

include tire pressure as well.

good pics of the tires might help, nice straight on shot and about a 45 degree angle shot across the tire.

Could be your cone bearings are shot.

Go to leroybeal.net, select motorcycles, Honda Silverwing, then giving the tires a good shave.

I have done it to both my Silverwing and my Vespa and found it reduced the wobble. Shaving the back tire did the most good. Also, be sure your tires are inflated to recommended or higher pressures. When running City Grips I found inflating the rear tire to 37 psi did wonders

Don't waste your money on a mechanic. Most bikes wobble on coast down, worse when tires have worn a bit.

Okay, I'll post those tomorrow. Thanks, OAS.

whos OAS? old as shit?

From my inexperienced non-expert eye, it does seem my rear tyres are more flat in the centre than they used to be. That's to be expected. The front tyres still seem to have that curvature.

I'll double check my tyre pressures tomorrow. I've been so surprised at how well these tyres keep their pressure. I've never once had to "top up" the tyres. I thought maybe my gauge was fluky so I measured the tyres with my husband's gauge and it was practically the same reading.

Lol. Sorry! Old As Soil?

run you palm lightly with the tire . Do you feel any slight bumps/cupping?

Stop riding with no hands!

Just tried this technique this morning. Did it on both tyres. I don't notice any unusual bumps or cupping.

Tyre pressure also checked out normal. In fact, both tyres are about 1.5psi over the posted limit but the weather is hot here so I think that's normal.

I'll post pictures. Hahah I don't usually ride no hands.

So here are pictures.

I notice that for both tyres, the left side (left side in relation to straddling the scooter when riding) is just a little more worn out. I would think this is normal given the camber of the road. And in particular, I ride left track mostly.

Didn't feel any cupping or scalloping.

Tyre pressure normal (checked this morning).

How are the roads where you did this? That can be a factor as well.

What you are describing is almost the text book definition of the wobble. This is taken from the MV Wiki:

'Generally, the GT and GTS steering will wobble slightly (some would call it a head shake) when decelerating through 30 mph (approximately) with one hand removed from the handgrips. Not all of them exhibit this behavior, although it's likely that all of them are capable of exhibiting this behavior given a few changes in parameters.'

I realize that you ride a BV and not a GT/GTS but if this is the first time you have taken both hands off the bars, and you have troubleshooted mostly all of the other possibilities, who's to say that you have not had this wobble all along?

My GTS has the wobble. With both hands on the handgrips I feel nothing. With one hand on the handgrips and decelerating through 30 mph it's questionable if I can feel it. With both hands off of the grips it shakes it's head as if saying 'No no... put both hands back on the grips Evil Knievel.'

If you've done a robust safety check and you only feel it when riding with no hands, then I wouldn't worry about it.

True, true! Very true! This is exactly like what happens for me too. I don't feel wobble when both hands are on the handlebar. With one hand, not sure. With no hands, definitely. I've done all the safety check that I know how to. Someone on another forum suggested checking steering bearings (and the like) but I don't know how to do that and that kind of work I'd have to send to a mechanic. Ah...only if I had enough disposable income to do so anytime I need!

This is where I'm a bit baffled because what I experience maybe is my imagination, and then sometimes it feels like maybe it's not my imagination.

Okay, so on certain roads it feels like (and I say it feels like, so I'm not definite) I MIGHT be hearing a rhythmic thump thump thump. But then on some roads I don't seem to hear this or feel it. I notice the City Grip tyres I have, have rather deep and wide grooves, so I don't know if it's just that these grooves great this thump thump feel. Then sometimes I wonder if some roads road has a wave-like pattern creating this feel.

But the roads I generally ride on are...I guess I would say normal. Is that a good way to describe it? LOL. I mean they're paved roads that aren't horribly full of holes....just normal American roads.

Often it comes down to what you're willing to accept. When I first purchased my GTS and was reading every thread, taking notes... I viewed the 'wobble' as some sort of end of the universe Vespa plague.

Once I felt certain that my scooter had the wobble I took pause to think about it... If I choose to ride w/o hands, or with one hand there is a possibility that the headset will shake slightly while decelerating through 30 mph.'

My verdict: I can worry to the point that riding is not fun anymore, or I can just keep my hands on the bars during that small part of the overall ride and not feel it at all.

I made the decision to stop worrying, and eventually keeping both hands on the grips while decelerating became a mechanical practice.

I'm not sure what year your BV250 is or how many miles you have on it, but the bottom half looks sparkly new in the photos and well cared for. If you're due for service have the mechanic give it a test ride to see if there is anything out of the ordinary. If your maintenance is up to date I'd just go out and enjoy the ride.

"Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Don't do that."

Nothing to worry about unless you have wobbles with your hands on the bars.

Most motorbikes (scoots and cycles) exhibit a bit of deceleration wobble, usually through 30mph. It's not important.

If you notice funny steering characteristics when holding the bars, notchiness, vibration, that's another story.

BMWs do it, Yamahas do it, let's do it too.

P.

I have a little over 7,000 miles. It was in for routine maintenance at around 6,000 miles.

If this is normal/to be expected, then I'm happy.

Lol. OK. Let's do it too

Dammit. Peter C beat me to it.

Bill x

your just over 1/2 way worn on the tires. and the rear squaring off is normal for the distance you have on them. the tire pressures your running are good based on what I can see in the pics you posted, which are very good. You don't have any cupping or checking, Balance should be fine, tire pressure fine, axel bearing fine. the only thing is what someone else already suggested is to have the steering tube bearing check and or the lock nut torque for the bearing checked. might be a tad loose.

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind and ask the dealer how much this coud cost to check. Thanks for the help, OAD (not OAS)

In the ancient days of group work we used a phrase, analysis paralysis. Seems still a valid observation.

Muriel, I recently had to biff a half worn tyre that visually looked like it had plenty of life in it. My GT developed the no-hands wobble like I had never experienced in 8 years of owning my scoot. It got so bad I simply stopped at the nearest MC shop on the way home and bought a new Michelin. The problem disappeared instantly.

Good luck.

Thanks, Boulty! I had to look up what the word "biff" meant That could be an issue.

I did some more experimenting today and at certain speeds (typically above 30; also, not decelerating) there's no wobble. For instance, I was going down a very slight and long slope. Starting at around 40mph, I let my hands go and there was no wobble. Odd, but I guess I'm okay with this for now.

This wobbling decelerating around 30 mph has happened on:
1. my 2008 sportcity 250 (15" tires)
2. 2005 vino 125 (13"? tires)
3. 2005? kymco people 250 (16" tires?)
4. not sure about 2009 aprilia sr-50 (14-15" tires)
5. not sure about 1993 cbr 600 f2 crotch rocket back in the day (16" tires?)

I haven't tried it on the other handful of scooters I've ridden but I'd put money on it that they wobble horribly decelerating around the same speed.

Some people claimed to have lessened it or fixed it at least temporarily by rebalancing their tires, or putting dynabeads in, or replacing with a different tire.

I've done a ton of reading and it's supposedly normal and apparently due to geometry of scooters. But that doesn't mean the you don't have any tire or balancing issues.

I've had many bikes over the years, one, my Honda CH250 Scooter would let us say mishandle unless one was holding the bars, so being aware of that I drove accordingly some 18,000 miles. I noted my GTS developed the "wobble" when I took off the front rack, I assumed it was the small change in weight. I placed the rack back on and poof problem solved. So now, on occasion as I always have done (except on the Honda) I ride at times hands free. Why, there is no good reason, I tighten my helmet, zip my jacket, scratch my nose. Probably not safe choices or as safe as pulling over but if I have a choice of solving the wobble and on occasion driving in the Mister Cool Mode, well it's just a foolish choice I make sometimes, just an honest answer.

Head wobble ??? Welcome to Vespa!

Ha Maybe

One of the replies suggested that I might have had the wobble all along but since this is the first time I've taken my hands off the handlebar after over 7,000 miles, I wouldn't have known.

On the other hand too, there are certain speeds in which the handlebar doesn't wobble. I tested that again today. I think I'm less worried now about this issue.

Thanks for sharing I've on occasion ridden briefly just one handed, e.g., zipping up jacket, adjusting jacket etc. Luckily mine doesn't seem to wobble with just one hand!