Modern Vespa

Thank you for all your responses to my three links (vespa's for sale) this weekend. I happened to go see the unrestored scoot today (http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/mcy/3903989112.html). Can you please tell me the value of these scoots? I want to fully restore the scoot to brand new. I'm sure some will say its worth whatever I feel it is but there must be a price range for these old untouched scoots that just about need everything replaced. What does a full restoration from Originali cost? Would you replace the engine and if so to a brand new one or a replacement? Thank you again.

I think you'll probably get more replies in the NSM section of Modern Vespa, as those scoots were all vintage in your original thread. That said, I'll bite... I don't know what Scooters O' charges for a ground-up restoration, but here's a page from Bar Italia Classics in California who is known for extremely high quality restoration work. If Scooters O' is comparable, expect comparable prices +/-.

Best of luck to you!

http://www.baritaliaclassics.com/Site/Unrestored.html

Prices are all over the place on vintage scooters. Depends on what it is and who has it. Every so often you hear of someone being 'gifted' or buying a basket case for next to nothing. Selling price most times if it's not something rare runs around a grand for a basket case. $1500 for something that runs and a true restoration around $3k. I've seen higher asking prices and lower selling prices but on average this appears to be close. Can you put new engines in them, of coarse, is it a restoration then? I guess if you want to replace the engine I'd start by asking why? Many of the old engines can be rebuilt to run very nicely. Even hopped up if you like. I'd suggest if you are not doing restoration yourself that you go to one of the big scooter shops and buy one that's already done. Many times the cost of redoing one is more then the cost of buying a ready to go unit.

FWIW, I bought a similar Allstate in the same area for $750. My engine was rebuilt and purring, but my leg shield is banged up a bit more.

This, don't ask me how I know.

The fun to me is building myself.I built my first helicopter .Could have paid an extra 3 for one already built,that was 40 yrs ago!A $15 toy from Sears.haha

Thanks the tips.

I realize this is in Missouri and not NY, but...

http://bit.ly/16NLxJL

thanks. I'm thinking if I find the right deal I may have them ship the scoot. Looks like its $350, not bad. Just have to weed out the dishonest because I can't go see the bike.

I've bought a lot of cars without looking at them and found 100% of the time it's not exactly what it's claimed to be. I was doing this to resell and most times made out alright only because there was a large profit margin, this was on cars. On a scooter the top end just isn't high enough. I hate to say it but even $350 in the scooter world is a lot of money. I'd look more local. Maybe put a wanted ad on CL. If you're not interested in buying one done up you might want to consider building one up yourself. Compared to restoring a car a scooter is simple. You could have body and paint work done locally, rebuilding an engine could be done at a local shop if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself. I hate saying it but weather or not you redo one yourself or not, changes are if you keep it for any time you're be taking something apart for repairs or adjustment. I've found the help of the scooter community really great so keep in mind whatever you do you are not alone.

This is pretty funny. Did you look at the link above? I mean below. I'm most definitely not a rich man, but that is bordering on pocket change.



http://www.baritaliaclassics.com/Site/Unrestored.html

The scooter market in SFV, California (think Hollywood), is going to be a bit different than in NJ. Plus, a shop like that can command more money than Joe Ebayer.
I laughed when I saw the restored Rally 180 that supposedly sold for $9,500. Good for them, if it's true. When I'm done with mine, I'd be pretty stoked to get $4k for it if I were to sell it, and $3 to $3,5k would be more like it in the current market, and my locale.

This is a different kind of market.

Someone selling a clean p200 in california is about the same as someone selling the same bike in NJ.

The difference on your post is that your restored rally180 at home is a totally different product then a multi award winning shop that will make sure every flat head screw is the same as factory.

Also I believe their customer base for restored scooters is pretty picky.
Also that amount comes with some form of warrenty I imagine, as yours won't.

So comparing a 'refurbished' rally180 to a factory 'restored' rally180 is not fair.

My opinion.

Actually, of the restorations listed as sold on that page (only a small portion of bikes recently sold), only a few sold locally. Others went to scattered points across the country (Washington, D.C., New York, Chicago) and the globe (Japan, Korea, Italy). In other words, it's not just a West Coast thing.

However, these are not your typical restorations. These are museum quality. They're not necessarily the right bikes for every rider. Think more along the lines of art collectors. We also repair, service and sell scooters meant for everyday use, ones that are "well loved" and (hopefully but not always) well maintained. The market for these types of bikes is much, much larger, and the prices much lower.

When it comes down to it, figuring out how much your bike is worth is as easy as figuring out how much you're willing to let it go for. If that price matches the desire of the buyer, you have a deal.

But that's exactly my point, Jimmy. I laughed because they guy who started my restoration thought that he was building a $6k bike, complete with it's repro chrome and rubber, backwards valve stems, unpainted fuel tank, wrong color painted drums, whitewalls, etc. And I had to fight that idea when I made my offer on the bike. Not that it won't be a great bike for my needs, but not a showpiece. But a lot of people let advertised asking prices drive their perception of the market. It's apples and oranges, as you say. I kind of mixed my sentiment with that, but I'm not knocking them. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. Except stuff sold under false pretense.

I don't know if this is a good method, but I usually do eBay searches for the final selling price of completed auctions, as a starting point. Not that I ever bought a vehicle off of eBay. This was a trick I learned from my uncle, who has bought and sold quite a few $20k+ cars (not always on the bay).

Bar Italia, your message came through while I was typing my last one. Anyway, the quoted portion above is pretty profound. I never thought about it that way, but it's quite true. In the end, I got the seller who thought his collection of parts would be worth $6k assembled, down to $1,500 and a handshake. He may still think he was right, but at the end of the day, I'm the one who showed up with an empty station wagon, and a pocket full of greenbacks.

Edit: And thanks for clearing up my mistake notion that your customers were mainly local. I've spent some time in SoCal, and know the climate and money is very conducive to what you do. Given your rep, I shouldn't be surprised that you have done more business nationally, but nevertheless I didn't know.

Thank you, Black. And you certainly are skilled at bargaining!

(Oh, we sold the Cruisaire listed on that page this week ... to a London barrister.)

Well that story was the truth, but I'm not a skilled bargainer by any means. My bike was partially restored by the previous owner who abandoned it when life threw him a curve. It really wasn't what I was looking for (someone else's project), but I decided to see it anyway, bringing a low offer, figuring if it was better than I thought, and he for some reason accepted, I couldn't go wrong. Anyway, the bike turned out to be pretty much done, just needing reassembly. Pretty much everything, save for some odd bits that must have gotten lost along the way, was there. I felt guilty about the low offer, but it's all I had on me. And I offered to think about it, and get back to him during the negotiation (not wanting to admit I didn't have more money). But he wanted to seal the deal and be done with it. So that's how I accidentally became a good negotiator. Out of principle, I normally only go look at items I feel are worth what the seller is asking, and then only negotiate if something deviates from what I was expecting. At least I was upfront with the seller, and told him I wasn't really looking for that kind of project. But he wanted it gone - there was emotional baggage attached, and he'd gotten his fun out of what he'd done with it to that point.

Now with regards to the OP, and his prospective purchase: I have to back up those who advise against buying a bike to have professionally restored. It's one thing if you have to have a certain model and year, because it was your first bike, or your dad owned one, etc. But in your case, you are pretty open to what you want, so take advantage of that, and seek out a bike that's ready to go. It will be easier, and cheaper. And you will have a better chance of getting your money out of it, even if you pay top dollar.

[quote="Blackbomber"] Well that story was the truth, but I'm not a skilled bargainer by any means. My bike was partially restored by the previous owner who abandoned it when life threw him a curve. It really wasn't what I was looking for (someone else's project), but I decided to see it anyway, bringing a low offer, figuring if it was better than I thought, and he for some reason accepted, I couldn't go wrong. Anyway, the bike turned out to be pretty much done, just needing reassembly. Pretty much everything, save for some odd bits that must have gotten lost along the way, was there. I felt guilty about the low offer, but it's all I had on me. And I offered to think about it, and get back to him during the negotiation (not wanting to admit I didn't have more money). But he wanted to seal the deal and be done with it. So that's how I accidentally became a good negotiator. Out of principle, I normally only go look at items I feel are worth what the seller is asking, and then only negotiate if something deviates from what I was expecting. At least I was upfront with the seller, and told him I wasn't really looking for that kind of project. But he wanted it gone - there was emotional baggage attached, and he'd gotten his fun out of what he'd done with it to that point.

Now with regards to the OP, and his prospective purchase: I have to back up those who advise against buying a bike, and then commissioning a professional restoration. It's one thing if you have to have a certain model and year, because it was your first bike, or your dad owned one, etc. But in your case, you are pretty open to what you want, so take advantage of that, and seek out a bike that's ready to go. It will be easier, and cheaper. And you will have a better chance of getting your money out of it, even if you pay top dollar. And if you don't find what you want, in your area, there's always the option of something called waiting. I looked (very casually) on and off for two years before I bought my Rally. But I had a plastic scooter to hold me over. You could always buy a nice P, and sell it when you find your classic. But it shouldn't come to that. I passed on a lot of bikes, because I really wasn't in the right state of mind to make the plunge. It sounds like you are committed, so you won't let one pass if it comes up.