Modern Vespa

I have been looking into buying my first scooter, after many years of m/c riding. The BV350 is of particular interest to me.

I had breakfast with a riding buddy this morning, and I told him about my current interest and excitement with scooters.

I would appreciate your assistance in answering a question my buddy asked me.

He asked if I had also looked at small displacement m/c as an alternative. He mentioned the Honda CB500x; $5999; 430#; 31.9' seat height, and the Kawasaki Ninja 300; $4999; 380#;30.9 " seat height.

There are also some M/C with CVT transmissions.

So, can you explain to me why you choose a scooter rather than a small m/c, and what do you consider the advantages/ disadvantages of each.

Thank you in advance for your comments

Dave

IMHO When talking about performance, that twist and go off the line in heavy traffic in a heartbeat is what you get with a scooter.

I can beat any bike off the line with my BV 500 but I will be overtaken soon enough by the bike. I won't deny that.

But for me, riding in heavy traffic with lots of trucks, I need to get out of the way in a nanosecond. You only get that with a twist and go. I'm sure some will argue that is incorrect, but that is my belief.

The primary reasons I would choose a scooter over a small displacement motorcycle:

1) With a twist-and-go (modern) scooter, you avoid having to shift in city traffic.
2) They tend to be smaller, so you have a smaller turning radius and
3) take up less space when parking, making it frequently easier to find a spot (or just make one) in a lot as well as
4) less space in the garage.

Overall, though, it comes down to one thing: if you are wanting a scooter for a change of pace, then that's the right choice. If you're afraid you're not going to like it, either buy a used one for cheap to see, or see if you can borrow or rent one for a while to see how you like it.

Hope that helps!

Mark

Edit: How could I forget that they have more storage space! Thanks, everyone that pointed it out...

scooter form factor can make carrying extra crap like groceries easier (I carry 8 bags of groceries on mine often). Legshield can keep your legs and lower body drier in the rain. Smaller wheels (doesn't apply so much with the BV500, though) make for a more nimble ride. Engine weight is low.

My love for scooters doesn't really come from conscious consideration of these factors, though. It's more intangible than that. If you are drawn to the BV, you might be the same way. I just love them and prefer the design to that of MCs... I also prefer the color "green" to other colors - sometimes you just gotta go with what you prefer

Assuming we're comparing a MC and scooter with CVT (Mana, NC700x vs BV500, Vespa), the biggest difference you'll notice most often, I'd argue, is in carrying capacity.

Can you fit a helmet under the seat of a motorcycle? I can fit a modular under mine.

Here's a couple:
Shifting in traffic is a pain- in my case clutching causes hand problems, but I don't think anybody really enjoys it.
Yes there are a few automatic transmission motorcycles, but they start at 700 cc (Honda double clutch 700cc and 1200cc, the defunct DN-01 or the Aprilia Mana 850). Those weight in a 500+ lbs. the BV350 is 390 (dry). I can pick up either end of my Vespa (250cc- 330lbs) to maneuver it in my cramped garage.
I commute daily; dry, wet or torrential, the legs shields (and windshield) keep me drier.
I'm happy in my own skin- I don't really care if anyone approves of my ride or not. Regardless they all wave when you're on some secondary road a hundred miles from anywhere.

Storage was a huge factor for me getting my GTS vice say a Honda 250 or a Kawi 300 which were my choices at that time.

I traded down from a gl1800 Goldwing to a Kawasaki Concours 1000. While owning the Kawasaki I ran across a good deal on a GT200 that had been in storage for a while. I bought it with the intention of reselling it at a profit. After servicing it and getting it road worthy I made a big mistake. I rode it . I was so impressed with the quality, performance and general coolness of it(not to mention how much more comfortable it was than the Concours) that I sold my motorcycle and never looked back. Don't get me wrong, I still love motorcycles but I enjoy the simplicity of riding a twist and go. I'll let someone else expound on the advantages and disadvantages of each but I will answer the question of why I chose a scooter. I didn't choose a scooter, it chose me.

The biggest reason I am going with a scooter over a small motorcycle is the insurance cost. I can get coverage for a 300cc vespa for less than half the price of a 300cc kawasaki.

You have many years of riding though so obviously ymmv

Yes, but... the smaller displacement motorcycles do NOT typically have CVT transmissions, so that line of reasoning is a bit dishonest. What's far more likely is that your friend has succumbed to Motorcycle Penis Syndrome, and is trying to convince you to do the same thing. Using bait-and-switch logic to convince you not to buy a scooter is a hallmark of Motorcycle Penis Syndrome, wherein the patient is unable to distinguish between their motorcycle and their penis. I do own a motorcycle -- albeit a large-ish one -- and I think the two are vastly different experiences. Some of those differences are somewhat intangible -- how they handle, the effort required, fun factor, and so on. Other differences are obvious, such as the notable lack of storage on virtually every motorcycle on the planet.

But really, the reason I prefer scooters is because there are far less fellow riders who have succumbed to Motorcycle Penis Syndrome.

I consider myself first a motorcyclist----but have purchased 10 new maxi scooters since 1990 and run 300,000 miles on these rubber band drive things. Japanese advantage=plenty of dealers and great underseat storage, I bought my last new Vespa 1987 in Germany---Vespa are fun, small gas tank, few dealers-----as Rider since 1955, the older I get the more appealing scooters are to me...I like the dry feet thing....my lifetime mileage is over 1.5 million miles, over 75 new bikes/ scooters, so I have suffered on both kinds....this stage of life, scooters are winning.
Just returned from Sun to Sun 2950 mile run Chattanooga-Quebec-Chattanooga on my new Suzuki TU 250 bike----trip would have probably been more pleasant on scooter.
think chain maint., no center stand

Since you can buy MC's with automatic transmissions, the twist & go feature isn't what attracts me to scooters over MC's. I really like the Vespa design. The step through feature makes it easy to mount & dismount. The upright riding position is much more comfortable for me. As I'm getting into my senior years, I need to be able to stretch my legs out to save me from knee discomfort.

I know there are motorcycles that have forward controls, but even those won't allow me to stretch out as much as I need. Yes a Harley Wide Glide or other MC's can be fitted with forward control extensions but I've had a motorcycle, and I prefer the scooter at this point in my life. When I was scooter shopping, if there were no such thing as a Vespa, I'm not sure what I would have done. If I had unlimited financial resources, I probably would also have a motorcycle to ride on occasion.

Its a fair question to consider a smaller M/C. I've had several 400 cc motorcyles, including a CB-1; a 12,500 RPM screamer, as well as shifty Vespas.

I think that for urban and exurban commuting, the scooter is really a more comfortable, more convenient way to get around. Assuming you're looking at a 250 cc & up scoot, you'd have plenty of power. The combination of a box and the underseat storage on a scooter can be pretty impressive, and the weather protection is undeniable.

I suppose it also depends on the riding you would do, and the MC you would buy. If you've got long sweeping curves and open roads, the MC will be more in it's element. But if you're going straight-stop-turn right-go straight-stop-go straight-stop-turn left- go..... then the shifting becomes a pain. If you're on a hunched over sport bike, then just checking when you change lanes gets tiresome; at least it did for me.

I just recently sold my excellent GTS 250 and bought a BV 350. I could have bought a used motorcycle for similar cash, or even less if I bought a Honda CBR250, but for me, the ease and comfort of a scooter are clearly better than on most motorcycles. I don't see any reason to go back to a motorcycle for all of the riding I do, and that includes some reasonable distances on highways.

I love the Italian style of trad Vespas and the BV style bikes, and I don't worry if someone thinks I ride a scoot because I can't ride a motorcycle. And yes, we sometimes get exactly that sort of flak.

Ace terminology coining! I will write that down and save that for the future, although (grammar Nazi alert) I would have used the word fewer rather than less (is that just a Brit thing???)

In all seriousness I have noticed that motorcycle vs scooter syndrome when riding with the big guys. However, respect is often very quickly gained when you demonstrate that a big scooter is frequently much faster than a higher bhp m/c when ridden reaonably well.

I rode a friends new Ninja 300 last week; keeping the BV250. We have motorcycles and the scooter. We have the scooter simply because it gives us immense pleasure to ride. It's FUN!

Also, it don't hurt none that it is very quick, maneuverable, light weight, gets great fuel mileage, and is oh, so stylish.

That would have resulted in some unintentional alliteration.

I have had nothing but scooters so far and I thoroughly enjoy them. My scooters have been used on many long day and overnight rides and are very good touring motorcycles as long as the speeds required are 70 mph and lower. I have ridden several larger motorcycles and after the ride I am usually very pleased to have a scooter instead.

But my scooters are getting old and I find that I am getting tired of being the slowest bike in the group rides. Both of my highly used scooters are Vespa GT's that top out at just over 70 mph these days without help of a tailwind, hill or draft. I could probably simply upgrade to a newer GTS 250/300.

I tested a BMW F700GS recently and liked it. I am renting one this month for a 2300 mile round trip from Denver to Glacier National Park in the Rocky Mountains with a friend. I will know better when I return.

I am currently looking at a Honda NC700X, BMW F700GS and Piaggio BV350. I can't test ride the Honda or the BV as the dealerships don't offer test rides.

I feel that the advantages of the scooter are those already mentioned:
Storage
Leg and foot protection from the leg shield.
Automatic transmission
Size

The motorcycle advantages are:
Performance
More Shops for repairs
Even though I have had minimal issues with the CVT and belt, I would enjoy having a real clutch, gears and chain.

As far as fuel economy, the Honda and BV are almost the same with the BMW just a few mpg worse.
Performance, the Motorcycles are significantly faster than the BV.
But performance wise, the BV gives me everything I am looking for.

So, today, I am leaning towards the BV while keeping one of the GT's.

But I haven't committed yet.

You've already answered your own question. You've done the motorcycle thing, so you know what they're like. I've done both. Where do you expect to do most of your riding? I love my motorcycle, but my scooter was one helluva lot easier and fun around town. The motorcycle is great on the highways, but that's not even a fair comparison because my scooter was a 150cc and barely highway capable. A BV350 will give you the best of both worlds, especially considering that you already have an interest in it.

In short: Thank your friend for his advice, but choose the ride you want. You're paying for it and you'll be in the saddle.

Good replies so far. And I think Menhir hit it on the head. I think you want a scooter -- the BV350. You like it. That's enough.

I chose my GTS simply because I like the style, I wanted a Vespa, and it meets my needs. Town riding to highway, I can go anywhere. The BV will give you more highway options and comfort.

And I do think there's something to what Jess says.

I would buy a GTS 350 tomorrow if they would drop the 330cc engine and wet clutch inside a GTS frame.

My GTV is just stunning with its retro fender headlight and leather seat. That was the major reason for buying it. But it also handles like a dream around town with its low center of gravity and maneuverability.

First I appreciate all the comments. very interesting.

The comment about "Motorcycle Penis Syndrome" did resonate with me. When I do group rides I keep hearing folks talking about "How Much..." HP they have, the price of this or that, how far they road, etc, etc.

The scooter forum's participants appear to show a lot less ego. They seem to be more involved with the joy of the ride. I like that!

I've owned 21 new m/c since 1982 and accumulated close to 1.1million miles. I've ridden the IBR (IBA#43) and done many long distance rides.

I turn 66 at the end of the month, and find that I really enjoy doing local rides, with as little freeway as possible. I'm enjoying smelling the flowers and even stopping to take pictures along the way.

I feel that I am evolving into a scooter rider

Again, that's for your comments.

Dave

All of the above...

And there's just something about scooters that resonates with the name Dave

-Dave

For me it was simple. I am a novice rider and hadnt been on a bike since my early teens and never on the roads. Hence, one less thing to worry about (gears!) as I learn proficiency in riding. Too often in my pre riding course I would glance down to the foot pedal to look at my gear changing. No need on a twist and go

why I like my scooter:
room for stuff
looks classy
conversation starter
skirts

Well Dave, I have been a motorcycle rider for a while. 26 years on street bikes so far. I've had a few good ones, BMW RT, and GS. Couple of HD's, and a few Honda's and a Suzuki as well. One ride on a Vespa GTS 300 sold me. I commute daily, take vacations on it too. No motorcycle I've tried is as all around good in city traffic, and I honestly compare it favorably the R 100 RT that I used to own when it comes to all day riding. I'ts comfortable, lots of storage, and economical. Insurance is cheap and last time I checked the milage it was 67 mpg. I'll take that.

A small dual sport at 250 cc is a great choice for many many different roads. Where a scooter will handle both paved and gravel roads well don't even think of taking it on the trails.

The scooter body is simple to clean where all the nooks and crannies of a motorcycle require too much time clean.

Generally a scooter is quieter which is a major factor for me.

The published lx150s weight carrying capacity is over 600 Lbs! I don't know of a small motorcycle that is even close.

I've read somewhere awhile ago a pretty convincing article that described a scooter as a fully evolved motorcycle. Wish I could post a link. They look better, the exhaust poses no threat of cooking your legs, great storage and without the look of naked skeleton with an exposed engine. After all the Vespa from the beggining was designed to keep the rider clean. At bike week Daytona, my Vespa was a stand out, 1 out of a million MCs and plenty of flashes too. Don't wish to diss the mc crowd, but for me I will always be a scooterist. Not to mention the step through design. Both times that I dumped my BV while parking, I landed standing up. On a motorcycle, it may have ended up landing on me.

Personally I prefer the looks of a classic styled scooter and the seating position. Much more comfortable to ride a twist and go in the city. Storage capacity is critical since I use it for errands and touring. Plus I spend most of the year in Houston - I really, really appreciate not having a hot motor between my legs. In the limited winter I can always put on a scooter skirt or themoscud which would have the advantage of sending the heat from the vents on my GTS under the thermoscud. For me the GTS 250 is the perfect size for riding around cities. Big enough I can jump on the freeway IF I need to but highly maneuverable. With its classic styling I can often get away with parking where a motorcycle, even a smaller Ninja gets booted.

When it comes to touring I still prefer the classic upright styled scooter. For me the foot forward seating position of a maxi scoot or m/c cruiser just isn't comfortable for distance riding. In the last two years I've done multiple trips of 3,300-4,450 miles on 500 cc scooter - Scarabeo 500 or BV 500. No real trouble keeping up with the "big boys" though I did get some funny looks when I'd pass 1,000+ cc m/c on I-90. More than a few looked confused when they'd give me a wave as I came up on them when I passed and they saw what I was riding. Okay, I'll admit it is childish but it is fun to surprise folks on big bikes who think all scooters are 50cc putt putts.

Are the occasions when I'd really enjoy a motorcycle, you bet. Occasionally when riding some of the really curvy roads in the Rockies a sports bike or naked bike has lots of appeal. Besides I was out with my brother and a couple of his friends riding the twisted sisters in Texas hill country. All of which were on considerably "bigger" bikes from 1100cc BMW to Yamahas and I'm not sure what all else. I was not the slowest one the curves though each of them could have outrun me on the flats, well except one of the Harleys but that was at least as much the rider as the bike.

I have on occasion considered picking up a small dual sport for our Colorado place because of the trails and dirt roads but it would most likely be my husband or son riding it since I'm really not that fond of riding dirt.

What it really comes down to is where and what you want to ride.

I like motor-bikes, right now I have a Harley Sportster. A simple 883 had it since 2006 and really don't think I'll ever sell it. My first Harley but the point is a classic Motorcycle, the Vespa is a classic Scooter. Now if I could, I'd have a Ducati Monster AND some sort of all out Ducati but not anything over 1,000 cc. A tourer would be nice, I'd probably be happy with a half dozen bikes, I mean I don't need one for every day

You must be straight. Only straight people would consider a motorcycle.

I've been riding my MC for the last couple of months due to my Vespa getting knocked over and the exhaust getting trashed, so whilst that's off the road I've only been driving my MC.

Couple of issues I've come over in this few months,

1. My left hand kinda always has a a dull pain to it, sometimes it hurts a lot due to a lot of city riding.

2. I've been soaked...A LOT, either with my seat being wet with rain earlier (it rains a lot a night here) or driving in the rain.

My termoscud on my et4 means I I always have a dry seat and dry legs, even in torrential rain.

3. Storage, I can go shopping and totally a stock up, put stuff in the seat, foot well etc, went from being able to carry 5-8 bag to 1 or 2 with the MC.

4. Currently nursing a burnt right calf from some muppet bumping in to me when I was sitting on my bike in traffic.

When I took my Vespa out for a run the other week it was AWESOME fun, just really nippy, can turn on a penny, REALLY comfortable setting position, super easy to get in an off due to the step through design.

If you want to take pictures etc and take your time a Vespa is the way to go, I'm a photographer and I used to be able to stop and take photos on the fly all the time, now my camera lives in a bag that's bunjied to my seat, so it's gotta be a big conscious decision to stop, get it out and shoot rather than dip in the glovebox quick,

We had a long term cycle rider on the Picos de los Pirineos Rally, doing his first serious riding on a scooter. He completed the Rally with a brand new respect for scootering and understands why I said, "Harleys and Goldwings are for wusses." You have to ride the two different machines to understand the differences.

G'day,

I chose it for convenience. This is my first ride and I never even considered a motorcycle. I have to deal with insane Sydney traffic riding through narrow lanes and people are constantly spilling over into my lane on every bend in the road. I didn't think it was the place to learn to switch gears. Also being a younger person, under 30 still , I have never driven a manual car. I am not about to learn how to switch gears and operate a clutch on a motorized two wheeler when I have never done it in a four wheeled cage. I saw one of those men who suffer from MPS (motorcycle penis syndrome) riding down a major street in the city with a small shopping back with a CD in it..because it couldn't' fit in his pocket and he had zero storage on his bike.

Try having a glovebox, underseat storage and a top box for a few months and NO HEAVY BACKPACK!!!!!!! and see if you want to go back to constantly shoving wet raingear into a single back with all the rest of your stuff. Keys, phone, wallet into the glovebox for empty pockets in case of the worstcase of going down, anything I can crush or is heavy under the seat or on the floorboard, and anything bulky in the top box. I feel free this way. I once, unwisely I imagine, took a roller-style window shade home from the hardware store propped on my floorboard and resting on my shoulder, couldn't begin to do that on a tourer or sportsbike.

Twist'n'go, storage, easier to learn, easier to handle, lighter, step through, wind/rain protection, and the fun factor will keep me in the scootering world for my entire riding career. I can see almost every motorbike rider making a switch into scooters for practical reasons over time, but as long as I want a mode of transport and continue to have zero interest in racing or 'control' then I'll steer clear of ever learning to operate a clutch.

My thinking is...it is freaking 2013...why would you manually operate a clutch and gears when the technology has been around for over 50 years now where it can do that itself. Do you want a freaking crank to start up your car or motorbike like on a Model-T? Do you wind up your clock by hand? I like technology and I'll take the advances

Hah!

And something about safety when in an accident:
- No exhaust pipes burned into your chest.
- You can keep the bike stable when running over snow/ice
- More chance to push the bike away during an accident (no tank: legspace)
- Less chance to get your feet trapped under your bike.

I live in the city, and I find that my GTV 250ie. (2009), is perfect for for my needs. I can get in the interstate when I have to or want to, and I have had absolutely no issues with keeping up with the speed limit even on moderate hills. I will do 80 easy enough (GPS 80), and since the speed limits around here are 65MPH, I have enough speed, plus enough to sipped up if needed to get around a situation. Most of mt driving is in the city or not too far out. It fills in the need to save on gas, as for my car, city driving nets me the WORST MPG. The scooter is very maneuverable and the CVT has a couple advantages. One is a quick takeoff, but the other is that I don't have to think about shifting on top of avoiding people on cell phones, texting, and any other kind of distraction that can cause accidents. I used to avoid certain parts of the city (like The Hill) because of one way narrow streets and the difficulty of turnin around if I made a wrong turn. I also do photography. Sme of the most incredible architecture is in the more dodgy parts of the city. I don't have to park and leave my scooter...l I can often go right up to what I am shooting and get it with ought ever turning the ignition off. As for riding it to work, it is cleaner... And when it is cold it is a but warmer because of the leg shield. The storage is great, I can get a $150-200 worth of groceries n it with no trouble. Plus it is fun.and beautiful.

I did look at a couple of small displacement motorcycles as from the riding aspect, for me they were mor user-frindely than the large wheeled scooters (that I also looked at) because I am short. I fell in love with the little SYM Wolf Classic. It is based on the old Honda CBs and very maneuverable and fun. But it only had a displacent of 150cc and no storage, so it defeated the purpose for my needs. I still love it though, and this of it.

So it really depends on what your needs are. The scooter is definitely more versatile. But both are cool. And I just love the looks of the Vespas.

My Mom summed it up long ago when she said:

A Vespa is more dignified than a motorcycle. You can ride it with your knees together.

For me, personally, it was a happy accident.

I was looking for a nice PC800 or Brit bike for a reasonable price. A friend with dealer connections told me about a NOS Vespa that was covered by their 0 down financing. The price was what I was looking to spend plus it was new.

I love it and I'm happy I got it. A huge added bonus is the wonderful community it comes with. Its a joy to ride and I'm already thinking ahead to when my kids will want to learn to ride.

Someday I might get the PC800 or a nice Triumph, but I might not.

Why a scooter?

- both of the brakes are in the right place

- it's always in the right gear

- all of the working bits are tucked out of the way, and I don't need to oil or tension any chains. I just have to take it to the dealer's once in a blue moon and have them do their servicing magic.