Modern Vespa

Before we begin, I want to make it clear that I do not have an agenda here. I'm not trying to support a theory, or make a point, or even seek out accolades. I'm also not interested in railing against FaceBook (though I have personally chosen to delete my FB account).

What I do want to understand is what place scooter forums have in the era of FaceBook.

Some of you have been around long enough to remember a time before Modern Vespa even existed, when the scooter scene was largely centered on ScooterBBS. A few years ago, ScooterBBS attempted a major reboot of their web presence, with the stated rationale that ScooterBBS was losing traffic due to "not providing social functions like MySpace and FaceBook" or some such. That was what SE stated, anyway. It turned out instead to be the final nail in ScooterBBS's coffin, as the new software was, to put it politely, shit. Members fled for greener pastures, and ScooterBBS lost the critical mass that every forum needs to remain viable.

Jedi Stefan, not wanting the spirit of ScooterBBS to die, took the reins and created ScootRally, which I have always given him mad props for doing. It's easy to start a forum when you don't know any better, like I did. I have to think that Stefan knew better, and took on the project anyway. Fast forward a few years, though, and ScootRally is suffering from the same lack of critical mass that afflicted ScooterBBS, and Stefan is considering closing down the forum. The consensus there seems to be that most people have drifted off to FaceBook. Whether that's really the case or not, I really don't know. I'm not on ScootRally or FaceBook, so I don't know if this is really a real migration or not.

And it's not just the vintage crowd. The GTS Owners Club forum seems to be very sparsely populated these days. Even our sister site Modern Buddy has only about a dozen threads active in General Discussion over the last 24 hours, which is still viable but (to me) worrisome.

So I have to honestly wonder, dear readers, if there is indeed a place for scooter forums in the age of FaceBook, and whether FaceBook will eventually eat into Modern Vespa's critical mass. Certainly there are groups that have drifted away from MV and on to FaceBook, and largely aren't seen here any more. No hard feelings, I would certainly never begrudge anyone for being won over by the genuinely compelling parts of FaceBook.

What I really want to understand, then, is (a) What do you find compelling about FaceBook? (b) What do you find compelling about Modern Vespa that FaceBook doesn't have, and (c) What can we do to make Modern Vespa more compelling to you?

Short, newcomer reply, not fully thought out so I'll plan to stay here a while:

I also backed out of Facebook. I had some nice conversations with old school friends and shared some photos around. But I felt that the discussion was mostly either {hey look at me and my kids/stuff/family} or outright political baiting. Also I felt I was being 'collected' as a 'friend' by lots of distant acquaintances and it was only accelerating. So I said my goodbyes, deleted all my stuff, and deactivated the account. (It's still not deleted after 2+ years but apparently you have to log in to do that and I can't be bothered.)

Facebook as I knew it is great for:
- Sharing pics
- Organizing events
- Catching up with old friends and acquaintances.
- Stalking/being stalked by old friends and acquaintances.

Here, I really like some of the personalities, though I'm not terribly social myself. But the depth of technical thought is what keeps me interested. I'm new to scootering and determined to learn. This is clearly where it is at for that.

Ok that wasn't short. But I've probably got more to add...

Cheers.... thanks for MV.
-MM

A) Nothing.

B) Relative anonymity. I won't even comment on articles on the Mercury News' website now because the only way to do it is via your Facebook account.

C) It's already my #1 visited website, whether you measure that daily, weekly, or annually, so...not much else!

MV is focused. It is a way to share ideas between scooter aficionados. A place to go for advice, strokes, laughs and to keep in touch with scootering friends.

Facebook is, to me at least, more social (doh) It is where I keep up with friends who are not necessarily scooter buffs (or is that boughs?) Neighbors, musicians, drinking buddies, old school chums, et cetera.


I think there is a need for both. I use both.

Keep up the good work, Jess, and thank you again for all that you do.

(a) nothing
(b) smaller and more focused
(c) add technical section(similar to gl1800riders.com)

Jess just keep doing what you are doing we all thank you. Never have had a need to wash my laundry in public facebook is a waste of time.

I have only a pseudo FB account to allow me into the local classic scooter club (which is only on FB).

FB is too connected to real identity, that's how it works. I doubt I'm hard to figure out from MV, but I enjoy the feeling of connection on MV without the fear of my privacy being invaded. It may be a small disjunct, but I value it.

I've met real people via MV, cluding helping out a travelling MVer, but the crossover is at my choosing not as someone else determines.

I find it difficult enough when people who very much not my friends try to connect on LinkedIn - not interested in fending off familiar strangers on FB as well!

FB is a faceless corporation, for all Zuckerberg's profile. All the disadvantages of being subject to someone else's agenda, without the fun of yanking the petty tyrant's chain every now and again



From my perspective, MV is better than FB.

now, where's my clog?

Nothing, it is boring and intrusive, I am going to close my account... I wouldn't change a thing at MV (probably not what you want to hear)... I love MV the way that it is...

I have a Facebook account but I really limit who I friend. Recently I began writing a blog for a Saint Louis website and I had to reconsider my privacy settings which I didn't like having to do. I stick with FB because I have a lot of friends overseas and it is a good way to keep in touch. But so much of Facebook really depresses me. I really don't care for the recent updates, and I really don't like all of the trolls.

Here on Modern Vespa, we have a very diverse group of people, from all over the world, brought together by the love of scootering, and by Vespas in particular, though some people do not have Vespas and hang out just because it really is a nice group of people. I like the helpfulness and the camaraderie... The humor... And the kindness. I feel safe here because trolls and jerks are not tolerated. Between Facebook and MV I prefer MV and actually like it. I consider FB a sort of necessary evil. The latest ,over of Facebook with the grid, make it even harder to choose who sees what, and I really resent that. What I share with friends, I do not care to share with everyone else. Keeping your privacy setting up are a PITA and I am getting closer and closer to closing my account. As it is I spend a lot less time there. I go to see specific people, and to promote my art. And there are a couple of music pages I love. I would really hate it if MV. Disappeared.

What is this "Facebook"?

a) Like others, nothing. A club I hung out with moved to FB; now I rarely check in.
b) Threads. Maybe I've just never seen a well designed FB site but those I have seen are merely a pile of comments with no visible context.
c) I won't say nothing, because I'm sure some things I can't think of might be improved, but for the most part, nothing

When I log in to MV I still feel like I have walked into a local bar.
Sure there are more strangers than ever before, but there are plenty of people I kinda feel like I know and recognise. I can strike up a conversation and someone will talk back. If a punch-up breaks out in the corner or someone decides to start spouting politics or religion I know soon enough they will be shown the door.

When I log on to FB I feel like I have walked into the middle of a stadium in my underwear. Everyone has a phone/camera linked to a twit account and are spreading my shame before I can cover my arse and run off the field.

What can we do to improve MV.

Design one of these with a M/C glove and roundel on the back.

Facebook is the best way to stay in touch with and communicate with people you already know, including scooter riders, to plan events and extend invitations. With FB groups, it allows you to do most of the same thins as a forum, along with some additional features such as sending notifications and invites to all group members. Certainly, it's a good way to get word out about rallies and other events.

MV is fine as it is. Probably a more comfortable environment for newer folks.

Brendan

I think I might have fallen into a kind of survivorship bias trap, wherein the people who are here to respond to the query are in fact not the ones who have drifted off to FaceBook, and so the replies end up being fairly one-sided.

Still, many people have drifted off to FaceBook, so there's got to be something compelling there.

Catching up with family and friends. It's scooter centric unlike FB which I find to be scattered and filled with nonsense and ramblings. I don't have any thoughts on this. It serves me well with enough changes that make it fresh.

This actually cuts fairly close to the seed of this thought, in fact. It was pointed out to me that Scooter Rage this year pretty much was only publicized via FaceBook, and so some people who aren't on FB actually missed it. It occurs to me that perhaps this is something that FB really excels at.

Yeah, I didn't want to say anything, but I don't know how representative the answers you've gotten so far are.

Brendan

I thought perhaps we'd find some people who are enthusiastic about both. I didn't realize it was going to be this polarized.

In some ways that's good, as it means there's an audience for MV. In some ways, that's very very bad, as it suggests that FaceBook can -- for some -- fill all of their needs to the exclusion of everything else.

OK, I am a pretty religious facebook user. It is a good, quick way to keep up with family and friends all over. I can see pics of my nieces and nephews, and use it to link parents to online stories. We use it for my church group to keep up with what is going on, when and where. It is free, universal, and easily accessible.

What does Facebook do better? It is just social - I will post something more general about my life on Facebook than I would here. I can skim more easily. That is also its greatest weakness. I have to sort through all the "please support my cause" and advertisements. I personally don't have a Smartphone because I break phones at a truly appalling rate, so I can't comment on that.

Why do I come here? This site is about a part of my life that frankly I have little local contact with. I think I am the only scooterist in my small town. There is no "local" option. It is also VERY well moderated. As long as we disagree in a civilized way without stepping afoul of the rules, it is okay. I quickly lose interest in a forum that is allowed to devolve into political and personal criticism.

What could you do to make it better? Honestly, I'm very satisfied. I like that the threads allow me to read what I want and skip what I don't. I would guess this would be where you are going to get a response from the people who are still satisfied vs. those who are going elsewhere. Listening to the other comments though and thinking about it - would a club section be welcome? I'm not in any clubs, but it seems a popular part of the culture.

It's certainly an interesting idea. Thanks!

For those of you who are on FB, feel free to post a link to this thread.

No, seriously -- I'd genuinely like to hear from some of the people who are now pretty much FB-only.

The only reason I have a FaceBook profile (under an assumed name) is because events were being organized without my knowledge. I use it to hang out with people I know in real life.

If I want to meet friends of friends, I will do it at the next Christmas party.

Modern Vespa is a conglomeration of like minded people. FaceBook is a conglomeration of people you have already met.

Facebook is popular because of the socially interactive games you can play there, if you play them that is. and not to mention it is also allows you to sort of be updated on other people's lives, which is good if you have friends/relatives living in other parts of the world.

Having said that, while i do have my facebook account and use it occasionally to chat with friends etc, this forum is still very very useful and focused with loads of info and stories and that is why I joined recently!
Not to mention there is a generally nice & friendly community here.

Keep up the good work Jess!

I do use FB. For sharing photos, keeping in touch with friends that are living (a bit) further away.

Don't use it to read about Vespa, discuss technical problems and such.

My local vespa club has a website with a forum and a FB page.
Usually I read on the website a movie or such has been posted on FB (recently from our open ride out).

So FB doesn't drift me away from the forums or MV, for me they are complementary.

I daily visit MV, but don't post really often. This doesn't mean I've drifted away.
Maybe that goes for lots of others as well.
Or are you talking about visiting stats here?

It's kind of a circular thing. In order to sustain traffic, you have to have people posting. In order to have people posting, you have to have traffic. That's why I refer to it as "critical mass". Once you lost that critical mass, it's pretty much game over.

I go on FB for most of the same reasons that have been listed here. I'm also the parent of 2 teens so I go on to keep an eye on their FB activities (as one of their FB friends).

That said, I rarely use FB otherwise. I don't like the reality that everything you do immediately gets sliced and diced and monetized. The site may be "free" as in there's no entrance fee, however the fee is more more expensive than most FB users are aware of. Your interests, likes, dislikes, activities, photos, chats, comments, EVERYTHING you do or post is worth money to advertisers, and the FB crew will feed them your life for a fee. That's their business model.

I like MV because I don't get sold to or sold by the owners. There's a more altruistic reason that Jess (and others) keep this site online - it's because we're all here due to our interest (okay, obsession) in scooters. Sure, we want to keep MV sustainable (support the sponsors, buy the merch) but our activities and interests aren't being packaged up and sold as part of it. The value is in both the information given and also in the relationships formed.

Or maybe people you already know, even if you haven't met them. When I still had a FaceBook account, I tried to stick to only accepting friend requests from people I had actually met in person. Some people got bent out of shape about that, though.

Sorry.

I hate Facebook with a passion and I honestly don't understand the attraction.

This forum is the only form social network I use - It's that good.

Bill X

I'm in the hate face book club also.. but I do use facebook to KIT with family and friends, I think that as time passes, sites google plus and facebook will be part of everyones lives,

the site I use the mose tho is Linked in

Facebook seems to be for more of the look at me people.. showing off. I got so sick of it I hardly go on facebook at all.

Interesting question. For me, there is some value in Facebook that is missing here. Facebook requires no organizational structure, it is a stream of consciousness without a thread structure. No doubt it's mindless, but it does allow users to post a pic, a comment, and to not agonize too much about "value". From a scooter perspective I can see a section in MV where pics and comments can be posted (scooter related) which require no explanation nor apologies. Just a member free for all.
Might be fun, encourage more visual posting, and give all of us a sense of the daily rush of scootering.

F/B AND M/V are two different animals. I come here to find out specific information about Vespas. This is a very good site, I belong to a Prius site too, as well as a few other specific to subject places like Modern Vespa. Now F/B is a great way to share family photos, as far as Face Book friends I try to keep that reasonable. Yes, over time I have hooked up with High School as well as my Liberal Bias home town friends. Discussions of such old hot-spots as Hamburger Heaven and Chuck-a-Burger take place, although we tend to post that on a seperate site of "I Had Friends or Grew Up In U.City" we like to think we are special. Also as most of us are old hippies with a joint history of sex, drugs and rock-n-roll (just trying to get your attention) we post a lot of music videos that we find from straight ahead stuff like the Rolling Stones, the Who, the Kinks as well as Blondie and Elvis (Costello) Tom Waits etc. then to Zappa and Captain Beefheart not to mention classics like Bonzo Dog Band and Dan Hicks and His Hot Licks. You Tube has some amazing old stuff and even more amazing new stuff by very old guys, Mick comes to mind. Very few of my friends ever rode motorcycles and F/B remains for us a place to share our politics and music, as CSN&Y said, let your freak flag fly, although pushing 60 most of us are bald.

This, plus eleventy billion.

I like the sort of "amateur" status this place has - not that it is run badly, its very slick and well managed, but the ethos is right.

I need to ditch Facehugger. It's a kind of Orwellian and Huxleyesque dystopia, in one site.

Nothing. I do have a FB account, with about 6 'friends', as *they* use it and I can keep up with what they're doing. I very rarely post anything there myself though. I don't have to scroll though pages of dross to spot something interesting. I probably read about a third of MV threads - an order of magnitude more than I wish to on FB, but there I can't avoid them.

MV is like a moderated newsgroup (for those who remember Usenet) - and you can choose which threads to open and read. With FB you have to scroll through the lot.

FB has intrusive adverts - not that I see them, I have a well populated hosts file.

The anonymity thing isn't a concern for me, I've always been identifiable on the 'net - static IP addresses tend to ensure that anyway. No-one is really anonymous, there are always ways to track individuals if necessary. It's better not to assume there's any privacy on the 'net, except maybe for content which can be encrypted - which isn't applicable here. I'd like to be able to highlight some text in someone else's post, press 'Reply', and have that highlighted text formatted as a quote in my reply. Not previously submitted as a 'request' as it's a SMOP...

I have little use for Facebook, though my wife does use it mainly to keep up with some friends and family and I get the news from her.

I like Modern Vespa because it is the closest place I have found to Callahan's Crosstime Saloon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan%27s_Crosstime_Saloon


"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased."

Spider Robinson

Although i use facebook, I have thhe same concerns as others. Facebook is far too personal. I get real angry seeing adverts saying "find us on facebook", what's the appeal in following chewing gum? Or cuprinol (wood varnish/paint) when all i'll want it for, is only for a week in the summer - then it's forgotten about for a year.

The only benefits of using facebook is for arranging events and sharing pictures.

How could forum be changed? It'd be nice to see an off-topic/NSR section. And a more streamlined classfied section, where user can choose locations (possibly by integrating postcode/zip) - the amount of times i've been pissed off finding something i'm willing to buy - but is located in US.

Oh and some more polite staff. 8)

I'm on facebook and I use it every day.

It's good for keeping tabs on what 'friends' (a very limited amount of people - 30ish) are doing. It's open ended, so each posting is a different topic. Mostly I use it to keep the family informed on what the kids are doing and post pictures of them so I'm not nagged by Grandma, etc. Being a non-filial sociopath, it puts me in a comfortable position to appease everyone without the actual in-person contact.

I look at MV every day. I don't always post, but I'm here reading the posts. Not all of them, mind you, but some of them. I like that it's Vespa/Scooter themed. I like that the environment is positive and the actions I see in the brethren and sistren here somewhat restores my faith in humanity. This is where I come when I want to emerse myself in Vespa and Scootering. It's a resource bank for me.

I have sysoped BBS'. Back in the early 90s I cut my teeth on the Metal Zone BBS by watching how a dedicated genius sets up a truly inpiring environment. MZ was an awesome 10line in Solano County running on Wildcat! Don't even try to tell me there's a better BBS O/S. I've run my own BBS' for a time and enjoyed it while it lasted. Anyway... I know the draw of being SYSOP. I know the joys and pains of it. I'm kind of doing the same thing with Sharepoint on my company's intranet. There's a lot of satisfaction when it all comes together and a lot of pain and frustration when it doesn't. It's an addiction that you fall in and out of love with.

So, the life cycle of message boards especially MV versus facebook? Don't worry about it. As long as you're covering all delivery methods - computer, tablet, phone - then you're the top dog in a niche market. Change the lightbulb once in a while and people will continue to come because this site is offering something that facebook cannot.

Have no interest in Facebook at all. Personally think it will reach critical mass and go the way of MySpace sooner rather than later. (same with Twitter). Hopefully MV will still be here, like a local pub.

MV is more coherent than FB.

I have mulled over the oft suggested notion of "improving" MV with more forums, such as an NSR one. To do so would take a huge slug out of the "humanness" of MV. We are not uni-dimensional on MV, nor are we as scatter brained as FB, if you know what I mean. Or perhaps I should say that MV has a strong element of coherence, while FB is effectively incoherent?

If your mind is happiest with incoherence, then MV is not the best place to be.

To respond directly to the OP:

A-Nothing is compelling about facebook but, as an expat it is the best way to find and stay very loosely in touch with old friends, whilst keeping a link with family.

B- Modern vespa fulfills two very specific roles. Firstly, it is the perfect knowledge source for all things scooter and secondly it is incredibly entertaining and enlightening as the majority of users in my opinion seem either older or well educated (I just know I'm going to regret that statement!)

Where as facebook is full of crap, inane bullshit, childish humour and the worse vitriol imaginable. You simply cannot express any opinion in any forum on facebook without the trolls devouring you!

C-OK, you asked so I will respond honestly. There is only one thing I have slight issue with and I hesitate to post this openly Jess but you don't entertain pm's anyway so here goes-your omnipotence gets to me a bit! I respect the fact that you have given so much of your time and creativity to design and maintain this forum but sometimes I feel that you wield that ban hammer just a bit too fervently and do not always allow others to have contradictory opinion.

Please do not however, ignore my sincere appreciation for this site. I have honestly learnt so much and can even attest to the fact that it has positively changed my opinion and attitude to many subjects and even people of other cultures (especially Americans!)