Modern Vespa

I like to tease my family with FB. When winter comes around they post pictures of the snow and the cold temps. I post pictures of sand and the Gulf of Mexico.

Modern Vespa is where I come many times a day. FB is looked at in morning to see what I missed and in the evening to see what I missed, usually nothing.

I also get to see my old high school class mates getting fatter and losing hair. Don't worry, I am doing the same.

I am liking Twitter better everyday.

C- I have just been pondering the final question and it dawns on me that as a novice rider, I would find MV more compelling if there were a section dedicated to improving one's riding skills and ability. Rather than having to wade through the general discussion it would be far easier if threads and posts that fell into this category were grouped together.

I have learnt so much from reading and watching others tips, mishaps, near misses and ways to improve my own skills and it occasionally gets frustrating that the search function is at times a bit hit and miss!

As a new member to this site I think it is great, I litterally stumbled onto it one night while looking for all things to do with Vespa Scooters, since then both the wife and I have become almost addicted to visit each night just to see what other members have been up to and we really love it when new photos or stories are posted. Your site has been so helpful with information offered from a host of other like minded people. I myself have no interest in FB but the wife uses it to keep up with family home and abroad. Life is always full of people that shift like sands on a windy beach, look at the young of today, if you do not have a mobile phone in your hand you are out of it, I see face book as the same (What you do not belong to face book!!) well at my age I am very comfortable doing what I like to do, and I really like your MV site and the mixture of folk that belong to it, it fits my needs perfectly, keep up the good work. Owie.

This sounded like a good idea....

So, just for kicks:

Nothing wrong with FB. As most people say, its mostly about being able to stay intouch with a family and friends that are spread across the country. MY FB is what I want it to be. Because I control who I let on and what I choose to read. So there I am my own Moderator. If your FB is full of trolls, then you must get rid of them, just like the Mods do here.

Through FB I have been able to contact many sccoterists in Europe, Australia, Egypt and Africa and see their daily posts. The images have been fantastic and I really love that aspect.

I still come to MV because there is a good sense of community here. I think some people left MV for FB because their time is limited and FB allows you to make private groups that can be like small forums. There people can express themselves completely without fear of being banned. This is an outlet to blow off steam.

I have two 15 minute breaks a day at work and I usually spend them darting back and forth between MV and FB. FB is for my family, but MV is like my scooter family. Posts on MV are longer and more scooter-intesive, which I like because to me, being a scooter rider is a big part of who I am. MV is also a HUGE scooter resource for any rider.

I am not sure how much time and effort goes into running MV. ( probably ALOT) but I would HATE to see it dissappear because of FB. But I am not going to slam FB because I like utilizing that as well.

MPfrank is kinda right, MV is a little like Callahan's Crosstime Saloon. Or possibly MiddleEarth, because you have to watch out for Trolls.

I believed this at one time, but FB is so entrenched in the rest of the world I do not see it happening anytime soon. It has allowed people who have had their voices muted for generations a chance to be heard and in doing so change the direction of the world in many areas. This is something that most of us in the "free" world cannot fully appreciate. That is one of the best parts of MV. One, it keeps things from getting out of hand and two, I enjoy guessing how far Jess well let some guy go before he drops the hammer. MV is a community but Jess is the guy holding the mortgage and some times he is a benevolent banker and some time's he is Scrooge.

Ps: I do not have a personal FB account. I see no value in it for me.

(a) What do you find compelling about FaceBook?

Nothing. Not what you want to hear, I know. Judging from the way our kids use it, it's greatest use is allowing a large group of people to keep in touch. There are "core" groups of close friends who don't really need FB because they see each other and text each other constantly. FB seems to be useful for connecting those small intimate groups in a network where you stay in touch with those you otherwise might only more rarely have contact with. You have links with them, family, friends who moved, friends of friends, acquaintances, etc. My kids are still into clubbing and they use it to figure out where to congregate, or the places to avoid. The strength is that it's casual, like drifting through a wedding reception and catching up briefly with lots of people, momentarily eavesdropping on conversations, spreading gossip, chatting.

(b) What do you find compelling about Modern Vespa that FaceBook doesn't have

It's the birds of a feather thing. None of the people I was seeing on FB were riders. I was inundated on FB with inane drivvel. The folks who post the most are deeply narcissistic and in need of constant attention. Plus the less I went on FB, the more lies it sent me by e-mail ("you have notifications pending..."). It was never true. I got fed up with it. I deleted my account.

MV is a community of riders. That is what compells me to come here. It's the only place I can go and find a large group that shares my interest. MVers are mostly smart, nice, knowledgeable. Like any very large community, not everyone is agreeable. Life is like that. It's fine.

The wonderful thing about MV is the deep technical help. Having a Vespa, owning and riding any bike can be perplexing and lonely when something goes wrong. MV rarely fails to help.

Without subject specific threads that endure in a stable way like MV, FB can't compete on that score. The true power of MV is its critical mass. It means that Google gets you the critical information you need quickly (query: "modernvespa gts fuel injector").

My blog is where my close friends congregate. It's far more personal, I moderate there, the only trolls are the spammers, and I only occasionally have to delete a comment. It doesn't compete with MV. In fact to some degree MV feeds it. And I return the favor at every opportunity.

(c) What can we do to make Modern Vespa more compelling to you?

Resist the temptation to "improve" it. Most of the software, web sites, and other digital things eventually get "improved" to the point where some of the original value is lost.

I do like Jim's suggestion of the highlight to quote thing. I hate that if I change the orientation of my iPhone I lose all the post I put so much effort into. But there are workarounds. Select all and copy is one.

I hope this helps. Now it's taken so much time "typing" this on my iPhone, I'll be late for work.

Thanks Jess, don't give up on us.

A couple of things I've been curious about:

1) I have always had the impression that, for a lot of people, MV is their principal connection to the scooter world, especially in the U.S. And probably even more true for people who live outside major metropolitan areas. For me, most of the people I know in the scooter world are people I have met through my local scooter club/forum and people I have met from neighboring clubs at rallies. Those are the people I am in touch with on Facebook and the local forum has lost a good deal of critical mass, possibly as a result.

2) Are a lot of folks friends on Facebook with people they only know through MV? Have they met many people in person through MV? Personally, I haven't. Again, I've always figured that this is largely because the United States is so spread out, it is largely a car culture, and many people don't have the opportunity to meet in person.

Brendan

Reading many of the posts on MV, I suspect that MV has become a kind of pseudo Facebook for people who don't like Facebook. It is a social, friendly and supportive group. That, I think, is a result of the good moderation and sensible forum rules.

Having said that, I fall into the group that does not find any attraction to facebook other than finding old classmates and friends etc.

My wife, however, rides her scooter more than me, is all over facebook and has no interest in forums such as this.

I think what makes this place special is the scooter focus. That is the glue that holds all the other stuff together. I frequent a few other forums that are similar to this in that they have a specific interest as the focus of discussion. For instance, Vans Air Force http://www.vansairforce.com/community/index.php is a forum/site about building Vans homebuilt aircraft. No non-Vans aircraft discussion is allowed, but it is extremely active.

I think that the forum is healthy and great.

Tips? Keep the good forum rules. It keeps people civil which helps prevent the bullying that turns people away.

Cheers.

I have met four (two here in Montreal, one in L.A., one in Vancouver). I will soon meet another, maybe more, in Toronto, maybe in Portland ME.

I've come up with 10 interview questions as a way to build rider profiles for MVers and bloggers I meet.

Reading the posts are making me want to delete my FB account. If it wasn't for family, I would.

Facebook is great for keeping in touch with people that are not easily accessible through other means. Relatives and friends who live in other lands. It is also easy to dismiss those whom I find undesirable. I almost never initiate a friend request and often unfriend someone who posts poorly. It is also very useful for planning rides and group outings. Our local scooter club uses facebook for all of our communication, even though we meet almost every Tuesday and Sunday. Our internal talks on FB are not the kind of thing appreciated on MV, so it has been a fine communication device. I find that most of my posts on FB would not be well received on MV as they are of a more personal nature, relating to relatives and friends that are outside the MV world. Posting photos on FB from the road on my iPhone is so easy that I opt for that. I ride a lot and like to post from the rides. Those posts disappear quickly on MV as riding just doesn't appear to be of much interest to many here. MV definitely is interesting to me in that it focuses on scooters, especially my favorites, modern Vespas. I look for posts about rides and the purchases and maintenance of scooters. Perhaps the best thing about MV is that, through tight controls, there is virtually none of the crap that comes across FB. That crap being politics mostly, but other stupid things that cause me to block or unfriend many on FB. There are several members here who post writings and start discussions that I find very interesting and lead me to explore more on my own. It is always improving. I have found that the most recent changes have improved the experience a lot. I visit many times during the day and am sometimes disappointed that not much has changed since the last visit. It probably just needs about twice or three times as many interesting, intelligent, well read members to post their intriguing, well written stories.

Because I enjoy scooting so much, and this is the best venue to keep up with the latest in the Modern Vespa world, a few months ago I made a decision to see if I could have more of a presence here by posting more. Because of that I have gotten to know more fellow members both on facebook and through private messages that have lead to emails and even three visits. It enriches my scooting experience to have those connections.

I think pretty much what I would have said has been summed up by the posters above.

For me, personally, MV and MB are more specific to my interests. I am the only Deaf person I know who is into scooters. How else can I share my hobby and interests with other people? I live vicariously through your exploits and technical knowledge.

I do enjoy MB more than MV - It is a little more intimate feel in MB - due to the less postings and personalities there.

I think the format, for the centric focus of scooters on MV and MB, is excellent and well laid out. I can find almost any information I need.

I often mix Facebook up with MySpace. It got embarrassing when I asked a work colleague to come on My Face!

Where else but MV are you going to find a reference to Spider Robinson?

It's posts like this that really, for me, exemplify the difference between Facebook and MV. (And before I go any further, I'd like to say that I'll have a hickory daiquiri, Doc.)

Facebook is best for personal friend and family updates -- keeping in touch. I do not rely on FB for any kind of local scooter club info because, frankly, most club FB pages are poorly done, seldom maintained and not all that helpful. It's better for me to ride down to the local scooter dealership and talk with a sales guy or a tech to get the latest on upcoming events or "factory gossip."

My Facebook feed has descended to a list of postings by my friends of other content that they've found on the internet -- lots of shared links to support their particular political biases or culinary preferences.

What I find refreshing about MV is that it provides a forum for truly thought-provoking content...yes, most of it is scooter-related, but some of the best stuff from MVers has little to do with scooters. The comments are typically original and well-conceived. Earlier someone mentioned "kindness" as a facet of participating on MV, and I think that deserves some scrutiny. Moderating any site is a thankless job, and maintaining the fine balance of free-reign versus sticking-to-the-rules is a gift that Jess and the other moderators provide for us every day. MVers, by mandate, are a fairly well-mannered group. That part alone is quite pleasant, particularly if you have ever read any of the asshat "reader comments" on any given news site.

I maintain a Facebook presence because, to stay current with my long-distance kids, grandkids and international friends, it's easiest. I visit MV multiple times a day because I want to -- Life it's own self is not for sissies; MV shows me that there are people out there who genuinely want to be helpful, and fun, and interesting.

One thing that I'd like to see on MV (members can opt in, as desired) is a "meet-up" thread which would facilitate MVers contacting one another for group rides, coffee, hanging out. Maybe regionalized? The primary strength of this forum is the people. I know that I'd like to meet MVers from time to time for pure sanity's (insanity's?) sake.

Long-winded response, I know, but just wanted to chime in.

I use and enjoy Facebook, but then I am in control of it. My thoughts about it are in line with what Belkwinith wrote, she pretty much nailed it for me.

MV is a different thing to me. I enjoy reading the experiences of and interacting with scooterists from around the world. There are some genuinely great people here, many of whom would go well out of their way to help others simply because they share a common interest, and if I can add to that then I am happy to do so. But ultimately, and I hope this comes across the right way, I find it difficult to get personal with people I don't really know. It's probably the reason I don't get involved with the Skoks threads, not a conscious decision, it just happens that way. I have absolutely nothing against that aspect of the forum, they are all great people, it's just not for me. Despite that I still regard this as a community and enjoy all the different personalities within it.

With regards to what would make MV more compelling, very little, it works and the member numbers and traffic appear to be testament to that. Do you (Jess) see a trend towards that critical mass and see a point in the future where MV will be swallowed up? That would be a real shame because the two entities, while similar in some ways, are distinct in their appeal to me.

I use FB more than MV these days because I'm riding less. I have a general sense that MV is getting too snarky these days. Too darn many arguments.

The good news is I've found some wonderful people through MV that I never would have met any other way.

They both do different things and I'm so glad I've been a member of this community.

Thanks Jess!

Thank you Jess for an interesting thread, and for all your hard work on creating and maintaining this excellent forum.

My thoughts:

Facebook is a useful way to exchange trivial information among family and friends that I know personally. It's a good way to chat inanely . It is also (sort of) useful in passing on information about groups and clubs, although I believe a dedicated website is more satisfactory in doing this.

Modern Vespa is an online community of enthusiasts who share a common hobby. Thanks to its format we can easily find or create in-depth threads of pretty well any scooter-related technical information. I haven't met a fellow MV-er (at least not knowingly) but consider many of them to be my friends, and am interested in what they have to say.

Regards, John W.

As a newcomer, when I log into MV, I feel like I walked into a local bar where there seem to be quite a few kindred spirits. When I was on FB, I felt like I was at a loud party with everyone I ever knew, and others trying to get in.

Missed this the first time around.

When I was a wee laddie there were no computers; there was no Internet. We exchanged scooter information at the local scooter repair shop, at high school or on street corners.

MV is so much more comprehensive and useful.

My FB account is on hiatus. I already know who hates Obama and who loves Jesus. My problem with FB was that I let too many people in, so I have to go back and clean up my own mess. I like what Belk said about being one's own moderator, I need to learn that skill.

I visit MV everyday because of the sense of community, the characters I've met here, and to share my passion for two wheel travel. Like Georgia Girl, there are no other scooters in my small town, so I have to go to Europe to hang out with others of my ilk. Or Cincinnati.

[quote="Mutt The Hoople"]
Here on Modern Vespa, we have a very diverse group of people, from all over the world, brought together by the love of scootering, and by Vespas in particular, though some people do not have Vespas and hang out just because it really is a nice group of people. I like the helpfulness and the camaraderie... The humor... And the kindness. [quote]

This.

I can't express how much I've learned from this group and not all related to scooting. I am selling my Vespa but will hang around because this is by far my favorite online site, assuming Jess lets me.

Thanks Jess

I'm a moderator on the Easy Peasey Scooter forum but it's going to die in November.

I think people have slowly lost interest in the scooter scene in central Ohio (the critical mass that Jess talks about) and the few diehards that are left are on the EPSP Facebook page. We all know each other and so it's kinda like a family get together.

I'm on MV every day. It's the best forum I've ever been on. Informative, funny, and I get to meet people from all over the world.

Treppenwitz has been a source of constant amazement and entertainment. Judy is a good friend that I've never met face to face. And the list goes on and on.

Jess I REALLY appreciate the work that you've done for all of us.

Thanks for all your answers so far. I've read every single word of every single one of them, and am trying to digest the details.

I'm not actually contemplating radical changes at MV to compete with FaceBook, for those here and in NSM who sort of feared that line of thinking. More than anything, I'm really trying to understand why several other forums have ceased to be viable before the same thing happens to MV. One of the trends that seems to be emerging is that FaceBook has done a really good job of keeping people connected who already know each other, as many of you have mentioned. It might be that what FB isn't so good at is introducing new people to each other. So there's that.

I'm going to try to reply to a few of your posts here, but there are so many that I certainly won't be able to reply to everyone. But I want to thank each of you for taking the time to write down your thoughts on this topic. I really do appreciate it.

I had started a whole long post, then decided it really didn't matter what my history with Facebook is.

Suffice to say, I pretty much just use it now to login to some things (Spotify, some of my running apps) that only have FB Login as an option. Other than that, I occasionally get on to contact someone I don't have any other way to get a hold of. That's pretty much it.

Until a few months ago, I pretty much just stayed on the MP3 side of Modern Vespa. I'd guess there's probably 10 times as much useful info on here about MP3s as on the rest of the interwebs combined.

Lately, I've been browsing in General, too, and getting involved in more discussions over here. They may not all be scooter related, but most of them are. I love that there's so many knowledgeable people on here, and never a shortage of things to discuss and consider about these wonderful machines.

As for suggestions, here's a couple:

I know there's an events section, but could a calendar be incorporated into that, too? That way you could see at a quick glance what's coming up, with links to the relevant topic(s)...

Could there be away to add LiveJournal-style tagging? In my mind, I can see ways this would really help (searching, sorting), but I could also see it being hard to keep accurate as threads go off-topic...

Mark

Yeah, FB has almost a "chat" feel to it, rather than a forum discussion feel. Comments are shorter, but they go to a wider audience than you'd see in most chats. Interesting.

I don't and won't have a personal Facebook account. The reasons are irrelevant. I do have a Facebook Pages account for my weather web site, but Pages accounts don't have Friends, Likes, adverts, etc. They are more like community bulletin boards. Still not a viable way to run a club/group as far as I'm concerned. My favorite local scooter club, Easy Peasey Scooter Posse, moved to Facebook and I can't read it any more.

I am on several Yahoo and Google groups (some of which got rolled over from whatever the big "groups" thing was before Google.) I participate on them via individual emails rather than the daily digest or web options. Threading is better than nothing, but nothing like on a forum. Images are not inline with threads, searching is problematic, etc. I tolerate them, but don't like them much.

I am also on (and run) a few basic mailing lists. This is even less organized than Groups option. But the main reason people like them is because the info comes to them instead of them having to go look at the info. This has been stated several times to me, and the one mailing list I use also has a forum, which goes completely unused.

Forums have excellent threading, inline images, more of a sense of community, sometimes excellent search capabilities, and on and on. I do not see the end of forums for what they are best at; community and content.

FWIW, the scooter community isn't alone in this. Other enthusiast forums I peruse have faded away and/or moved to Facebook, too.

[EDIT] Since you mentioned Chat, please don't add a chat to Modern Vespa. There's no archiving, no threading to the random conversation, and it is difficult to monitor for moderators.

Steve

Kind of like a "text to the world?"

SDG

I'm with you Bill. FB is BS.

A foray into Facebook resulted in people I previously didn't enjoy wanting me to care about them now. Out of there within days. As time marches on, I choose my friends most selectively.
Time on the internet can be wasteful (even MV) but there is the great opportunity and resource for knowledge. I embrace technology selfishly and use only what I need i.e. I have an answering machine and a laptop but no cell phone or camera.
I applaud the content and structure of this forum as is.

They ceased to be viable because they offer nothing consistent. Some because they lost the leader, Easy Peasy, and driving force. ScootRally allowed dregs and bottom feeders, and MV usually has caught up with them before any real damage was done. Belkwinith nailed it for me in describing how she uses Facebook. I have very few friended and only friend someone I might actually or am a friend to. I could give a rats ass about bumping up my list there. It's also a good spot for like minded MV expats. If you really want to retain membership and that matters stay out of mat type threads and reign in your own outbursts. A fair number of fine, helpful, friendly folk have taken a powder over just that. When you ban for life, mean it the first time and hold to it. Nothing beats consistency. Consistency has been responible for the successes here.

"Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you."

John Wooden

a) Nothing. I do not have an account, nor have I had one. Perhaps I don't understand it, but FB seems to have complicated (or at least has the ability to complicate) things. I suppose it's how the tool is used or abused.

b) I like that Modern Vespa is not so "out there." There's no "Like Me on MV" and get a reward. I like its small community aspect and dedicated moderators who weed out disruptive participants. Everyone here is a "friend," and if I need to get closer there are ways to do that. We don't need to tally "friends" and watch every banal aspect of their lives.

c)More compelling? It pushes all my buttons right now. MV has helped me immensely. I don't make use all of your upgrades; I'm a little lazy to figure them out, as I'm happy following along and participating as I do. Now and then I make a leap and adopt a new (old by the time I use it) function of MV.

I don't see MV as being or needing to become a social media per se. It's more of a nice family pub. Everyone gets along, with the occasional scrap or two. Family apologize, and are forgiven; troublemakers move on (on their own or with a little help).

I liked Facebook when it was a social media.
But now the media giants have sunk their meathooks into it, and play people like puppets.
How many people share/repost news/political items that have been 'placed' there by paid consultants? Lots.
I like my Facebook raw,,,which it is not anymore.
Having said that...i spend about 1/2 hour each day on my Facebook page. Whatta hooker I am!

As for the forum,,,I enjoy it because the house is clean and monitored.
It is filled with people that Want To Be Here, and they have a mutual respect for what is posted (in most cases).

It's nevertheless a good idea. Thanks.

For me I can't stand Face Book. I never had an account with them and I never will because I can keep up with the people I actually know without it. It does nothing for me as NO ONE has ever hired me to play drums just cos of a Face book account and I have no need of old friends that I haven't seen in years, just to ask, "What have you be up to"? Cos honestly I don't give a Phuk! I come hear daily but rarely post as I do most of my posting on Modern Buddy but lately life has been getting in the way. I don't think that there is much you can do to change either site. As they are both to the point. If you ask a question it usually gets answered in the correct way without having to "Jump through Hoops" to find what your looking for or wait ages for someone to come up with a solution or sometime a contrary point of view. That is the beauty of this and the modern buddy site. Especially for those of us who are new to scooters or don't live in the big cities. Keep the faith jess!!!

I agree. This would definitely be useful.

A - I use it a unprofessional LinkedIn if you will. I post my family stuff, accomplishment, projects and other positive stuff in my life that is going on. As I see it the social norm is to have FB account and to participate with others, that's the extent of it for me. I've thought about cancelling my FB account on many occasions but alas, I have yet to pull the plug.

B - Not much. Photo albums... political rants... "me"...Really they are two totally different things in my world, one would never be able to replace the other. I'm me here on MV but on FB I have a public persona which is what I want others to take away if they see me there.

C - Not much. Photo albums? This place rocks and I get to be me. Thanks for all you do!

I wish I could share your sentiment. I used to, in fact. But there's a relevant quote that illustrates why I no longer feel that way:

I do. Thanks, Al.