Modern Vespa

All,

I have recently suffered the dreaded bearing notch on my 400 lt. I have only owned it three months and have travelled 3500 miles. i have taken it back to the dealer and they have denied all knowledge and have offered to repair it at a discounted price, i have also wrote to piaggio and have had the usual replay blah blah blah blah usual wear and tear. They also tell me that it is something they are not aware of being a problem as they have only ever seen a handful of cases

What i am after is basically after seeing all the problems that people have had i am pursuing legal action but also i am referring it to a consumer program in the UK.

Basically they have asked me to get as much evidence as possible so if anyone who has had the same problem is interested then either PM me reply to the topic and i will start the ball rolling.

Many Thanks

Not done nearly enough miles myself to get this problem, but if you get a known problem recognised and sorted, you're doing a great thing for all of the members on here.

David

Hi Lee,

I'm in the UK as well, and have had this problem crop up a number of times:

1st time: I bought a 2007 125 MP3 from a private seller at about 3000 miles two and a half years ago. Three months into owning it, around the 6000 mile mark, I had to get the bearings done at a cost of about £350

2nd time: I bought a 2008 250 MP3 second hand from a dealer with about 2500 miles on it about two years ago. This came with a 6 month dealer warranty. Four months into this warranty, again, around 6-7000 miles, the notch appeared, and the dealer repaired the left hand bearings under their warrantee, although I had to get it to them (70 miles away), and it took them two weeks to sort.

3rd time: Same 2008 MP3, and it started to become notchy again at around 15000 miles (about 6 months ago I think). This time, I performed the Gonzo tweak, pumped the heads full of grease, and, so far, it's been fine.

Did the dealer give you any sort of warrantee? After only 3500 miles/three months, one does not expect the bearings to go as part of normal wear and tear, so they should be sorting it if so.

Ian

Ian,

Yeah he did, however he is sticking with the Piaggio story of normal wear and tear. Ive argued till blue in the face but all to no avail.

I have seen and heard about the Gonzo tweet, but is hard to do, not knowing much about scooters, always been a car man!!

Or if anybody near by that knows how to do it would happily pay them.

Lee

Is the total mileage 3500, or did you get it second-hand?

I've had bearings replaced four times, so I'm on my fifth set at 35,000 miles. Piaggio were aware of the problem way back in 2007 (my first three sets were in quick succession, the manual is WRONG on replacement method) and they've since brought out new special tools and a couple of tech memos to minimise the problem.

Any dealer who's sold MP3s since the early days will know of the problem full well.

I brought it secondhand, but has done 10000 miles in total with a full service history. The dealer i brought it from sold it originally from new and has serviced it every year for the last three years. have all the paperwork. Have stated that he should be responsible as it was from him from new but again i get blah blah blah wear and tear !!

Ahh, that's dull...I was living in Leicester, and would gladly have given you a hand performing the tweak, but I moved up to Liverpool a month or so ago! Which dealer did you get it from?

Sadly, I have to say you've done well to get it to 10,000 miles for a three-year old bike without the problem rearing its head before.

I think you'll have to suck it up - it's a good four hours work to replace them even for a shop that's done loads before and knows all the shortcuts. Then there's the cost of the bearings and other stuff that has to be replaced - hydraulic fluid etc. So budget ~£450 all in. DIY at home for the first time - allow at least eight hours actual wrenching.

The good news is that once done properly they should last for far longer than the 'original from factory' of those earlier production years.

As Jim points out, Piaggio has issued two tech notes on adjustments to the MP3 steering bearings to avoid premature failure. The first was in 2010 concerning correctly preloading the bearings. A pair of special wrenches were issued at that time to allow proper torquing of the ring nuts. The second tech note was in 2012 concerning lubricating the steering bearings. A special bolt with grease fitting was issued at this time to allow greasing as recommended. It is discouraging how many Piaggio dealers seemingly never saw these tech notes and don't have the required special tools - so those dealers obviously aren't performing the factory recommended maintenance.

I have had my MP3 400 for one year now and still enjoying it.
(Bought s/h at nearly three years old with 2600 miles on the clock)
At the first mot last September the dealer pointed out the notch but he didn't seem too worried about it so it passed the test.
Since then I have bought the grease nipple and greased the steering.
Since greasing the bearings it's hard to notice the notch but the steering does seem a bit stiffer than a normal two wheeler!
The next mot is due next month so I am waiting in anticipation for the results!
Current mileage 3600.

Soundman

Does anyone know if this has been improved on the new bikes? I'm just wondering if my 2013 is likely to be exactly the same when I put on a few more miles?

David

Until I get a final answer and the bike is fixed does anyone know where I can get one of the bolts with the grease nipple on in the UK!.

Lee

I didn't have any luck searching for it on their website, but I would give these guys a call: http://www.psntuning.co.uk/shop.php I have had them ship parts to me in the US before.

Another company to try is AJ Sutton.

Piaggio part # is : 020943Y

Any Piaggio dealer should be able to get you one in a couple of days.

Here is a reply I got from desq in London regarding the same thing:

Grease Bolt
Its part number 020943Y.

You can ring with your credit card details and they will post out recorded.
I Paid £8.35 Inc vat at the beginning of the year.

This is the guy to speak to.

Darren Slater

Parts Department

5-WAYS Motorcycle Centre
Walton House, Walton Street, Hull, East Yorkshire, HU3 6JB
+44 (0)1482 35-55-35 | +44 (0)1482 50-89-55

parts@5-ways.co.uk

www.5-ways.co.uk


Hope this helps.

Tony.

By sheer co-incidence I ordered one from my dealer on Wednesday and it arrived today. £5.74 inc VAT. 020943Y

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I visited the motorcycle show at the NEC in Birmingham last December.
On visiting the Piaggio display I expressed my concern to their representative regarding the ongoing discussion regarding steering bearings.
His only comment was that they have supplied the Met police with plenty of MP3's without any problems whatsoever and had not heard of any other steering problems elsewhere!
Talk about about blinkered!!!

Got the notch on my 08 fucoco , 9000 miles , gonna attempt the gonzo tweak .. Mot due in the next three weeks so hopefully that will be enough ... Also have the grease bolt , through eBay , been pumping grease in there but seems like damage to the race has occurred already . The notch is ruining a lovely ride so better get it sorted

If you know anyone with a lathe, or possibly a pillar drill, they may be able to make you one! (That's how I got mine!)

Nobody has seemed to pick up on my comment about the steering feeling a little stiffer since I greased the bearings.
It may be me and never noticed this before.
Maybe I am comparing it to a traditional two wheel scooter.

What comments has anybody got regarding the steering movement compared to a traditional bike?

Soundman

While stationary the steering will feel a lot stiffer than an ordinary bike, as the wheels are constrained in their position by each other, and scrub on the ground more. At slow speeds it can need more input than you might expect - but once moving above walking pace it feels just like any other PTW.

I should have said that the bike was chocked up on a jack when I tried the steering!

Then the steering should swing freely. If you've *just* greased it up, then that could add considerable damping, but it should move with the lightest touch.

Funny, that's what I thought!

Just tried it again and there is no sign of the notch since greasing a few months ago but the steering doesn't flop from one side to the other like a normal Vespa would when jacked up.

Take a look at an old thread I started: Any ideas on my steering problem?

What you are describing sounds like the same issue I had. It would have been dangerous if I had decided to keep riding, so I'm glad that I had the local shop come pick it up and look at it.

Many thanks for the link FentonFred.
I don't think it is at the critical stage because I haven't noticed it when riding the bike as yet.
I suppose this is something that could have happened recently and is not linked at all to me greasing the steering bearings.
I only noticed this tightness while checking for the notch.
I will have a closer look tomorrow and report back.
Here's hoping
Soundman

I definitely wouldn't postpone it too long, I only realized it was happening to me when I was starting to make a turn and realized something was wrong. Luckily no cars were on the road so I just came to a stop and pushed it back into the parking lot where I work.

It's a simple fix anyhow, the mechanic just soaked it in lubricant until it was freed up again. I spray it once a week to be safe, and haven't had a problem since.

I've taken a look at the part FentonFred suggested may be the problem.
Can anybody tell me if I can remove this nut/linkage to eliminate various components that may be causing slightly stiff steering?
I have sprayed it with a lubricant but as yet it hasn't made any difference.

What I normally do on my weekly checks is spray the part you have in the photo and everything straight up from there - everything that I'm referring to is connected. I'm no mechanic, but it appears there is a spot where it pivots and also on the very top where you can see what appears to be a bolt.

I'm at work and don't have my camera, hopefully my description helps.

I decided to get a second opinion about the "tight" steering from an engineer/bike mechanic.
His verdict was " because of all the extra linkages and bearings etc compared to a two wheeler" he thought there was no problem.

I think the only sure way to decide is a direct comparison between two bikes.

So if there's an enthusiastic owner living in West Yorkshire (uk) who like tea or coffee, PM me!

Too bad I live across the pond or I would ride over and let you compare it to mine. But when my bike is on the center stand and front wheels can move freely, it takes almost no effort to move the handlebars.

Do you have a dealer nearby that you can compare yours to?

Hi FentonFred,

You would have been most welcome for a cuppa but I realise that your fuel tank probably doesn't hold enough fuel for the trip!

My bars don't need much effort to move them but compared with a two wheel machine there is quite a difference.
My annual mot is due next month so all will be revealed.

Just a quick update, ive finally won. The dealer has agreed to pay all labour costs and ive got to pay 50.00 for bearings!!. Still having a fight with Piaggio though to try and make it known just how crap they are on customer service front.

Good result - well done!!!

Just replaced my bearings a few weeks ago. 16,000 miles on them. Piaggio would not pay for them, said it was normal wear and tear. Sure glad my truck bearings are better ones, 104,000 miles and not a bearing replacement anywhere yet . That little job and a couple of more unexpected cost, cost me and my grandkids our trip to New Mexico this summer Was supposed to be up there this week. Will be able to go in a few more weeks but school starts next week. I will make it up to them. May head to Eureka springs during fall break, they love going there also.

Hi sanogeo1,
a couple of questions; what condition were the bearings in at 16,000, notched? oem bearings or aftermarket? Did you change the bearings yourself or do you have your service done locally?

NW Arkansas is a great ride, looking at that same trip once my steering bearing situation is sorted out.

James

No truck has bearings that are operated under similar conditions - one position (hardly any turning) and high axial impact loads.

Lots of motorcycles do though and you don't see as many failures. My brother had over 150,000 miles on his Gold Wing with original bearings when he got rid of it.
Piaggio cheaped out on the design.

Except that steering bearing failures on other Piaggio bikes aren't a common event either. This has to be related to the design of the front end of the MP3 - which isn't actually a Piaggio design BTW. I would hope, though, that after this many years of experience with the MP3 - a redesign is in the works that resolves this.

A few years ago I had a 250 Yamaha Majesty which had the same notch in less than 10km!
It was a relatively easy job to do compared with the MP3 however.
Soundman