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DR 177 boost ported
DR 135 (for PX80) boost port free
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UTC quote
fastfrog wrote:
DR 177 boost ported
DR 135 (for PX80) boost port free
Ok got it, cheers.
OP
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UTC quote
Okay, thank you all for the good advice.
So this is the verdict: i will continue with the disc-valve Sprint cases.
And built the PX cases (with damaged Rotary pad) with the reed-valve and longstroke crankshaft (60mm). Wich cilinder i will use is not decided yet.
Any ideas?

Sara
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Sara

Id love to see what you could do with a lambretta.

And the offer to divorce your newly married partner and come live with me and show me how to REALLY work on a 2t motor is still there.
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rotary valve needs a torkey puller: pinasco 215?! But you should wait a while cos pinasco is about to launch a brand new incarnation of its famous cylinder: A 6 port barrel... The new malossi 210 is a wild screamer and could fit your reed conversion engine.;.
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UTC quote
fastfrog wrote:
... pinasco is about to launch a brand new incarnation of its famous cylinder: A 6 port barrel...
Do you have any more info on this?
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of course!

[URL=http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/fastfrog/media/pinasco215new_zps8d3ca8ff.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
fastfrog wrote:
... pinasco is about to launch a brand new incarnation of its famous cylinder: A 6 port barrel...
Do you have any more info on this?
Getchoself a scrip to scooterin' foo!... put it on yo' ipad n stuff! keep up wi'da latesss money goodie!
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it's been unveilled sometimes ago. Everybody here in Europe knows about it... I guess Scootering too....
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UTC quote
Vader19 wrote:
Ginch wrote:
fastfrog wrote:
... pinasco is about to launch a brand new incarnation of its famous cylinder: A 6 port barrel...
Do you have any more info on this?
Getchoself a scrip to scooterin' foo!... put it on yo' ipad n stuff! keep up wi'da latesss money goodie!
What?
fastfrog wrote:
it's been unveilled sometimes ago. Everybody here in Europe knows about it... I guess Scootering too....
I think I saw that a while ago. 8 holes...
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Ginch wrote:
What?

I think what I meant was.. You may want to consider an online subscription to Scootering Magazine. It is available for the Apple Ipad, and contains many new products and reviews. Many of which are seen by the Europeans before other peoples of the world.

better?
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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UTC quote
Vader19 wrote:
Ginch wrote:
What?

I think what I meant was.. You may want to consider an online subscription to Scootering Magazine. It is available for the Apple Ipad, and contains many new products and reviews. Many of which are seen by the Europeans before other peoples of the world.

better?
Cheers Bruvver, know wot I mean?
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UTC quote
Oh cool, new Pinasco stuff. Soon to be out of stock at all your favorite stores.
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UTC quote
Vader19 wrote:
Ginch wrote:
What?

I think what I meant was.. You may want to consider an online subscription to Scootering Magazine. It is available for the Apple Ipad, and contains many new products and reviews. Many of which are seen by the Europeans before other peoples of the world.

better?
Much better! Sorry... Your sentence was way too smart for a dull and froggy boy like me!
OP
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UTC quote
fastfrog wrote:
rotary valve needs a torkey puller: pinasco 215?! But you should wait a while cos pinasco is about to launch a brand new incarnation of its famous cylinder: A 6 port barrel... The new malossi 210 is a wild screamer and could fit your reed conversion engine.;.
Sorry, but no PX200 cases.
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oups sorry....
OP
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UTC quote
jimmyb865 wrote:
Sara

Id love to see what you could do with a lambretta.

And the offer to divorce your newly married partner and come live with me and show me how to REALLY work on a 2t motor is still there.
This is laying around at work.
Lambretta at my workplace.
Lambretta at my workplace.
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Sara Alexandra wrote:
jimmyb865 wrote:
Sara

Id love to see what you could do with a lambretta.

And the offer to divorce your newly married partner and come live with me and show me how to REALLY work on a 2t motor is still there.
This is laying around at work.
That's nice.

Your work mate has a discerning taste.
⬆️    About 3 years elapsed    ⬇️
@pengsterism avatar
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'77 VLB, '79 VBC
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Sara Alexandra wrote:
For the sprint engine there is no bell crank
Well that's not completely true, there is one that will fit (as long as your case has the needle roller bearing on the flywheel side). You only need to use a 5mm packer under the cylinder.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/bellshaped+crankshaft+mazzu_45041000

Have a read of this to see another reason this is a good idea -
http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15818[/img]
Sorry Ginch I know it's an old thread but, after months searching I still couldn't find the best crankshaft for my next project.

I'm gonna built a reed conversion on my VLB, thus I prefer a reed cranshaft. Yet there are threads about the chances of damaging piston or piston ring (read your scootercentral link, thanks) while your'e using a 60mm longstroke cranshaft with 105mm con rod; which only bell shaped crankshaft availabe in the market!

And here I've found this; using 60mm 110mm cranks with additional 5mm packer. Is it possible? With additional 3mm on the stroke and 5mm on your rod, did you require a 6.5mm packer in total? (gonna use a 172cc cylinder kit collecting dust for the time being)

Does it effecting your transfer/exhaust timing? Well since it's a reed conversion, no problem right? But how about the ignition timing? I don't believe a packer is the only adjustments required.

There is a Mazz 57mm 105mm rod crank available, but some other threads questioning their quality.

Yes, I can use normal flowed shaft but once I do it, I'm gonna do it right. Got all the parts ready except the correct crank.

Will post my progress once all ready.

Waiting for your reply Ginch! Thanks.
@ginch avatar
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74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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UTC quote
pengsterism wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Sara Alexandra wrote:
For the sprint engine there is no bell crank
Well that's not completely true, there is one that will fit (as long as your case has the needle roller bearing on the flywheel side). You only need to use a 5mm packer under the cylinder.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/bellshaped+crankshaft+mazzu_45041000

Have a read of this to see another reason this is a good idea -
http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15818[/img]
Sorry Ginch I know it's an old thread but, after months searching I still couldn't find the best crankshaft for my next project.

I'm gonna built a reed conversion on my VLB, thus I prefer a reed cranshaft. Yet there are threads about the chances of damaging piston or piston ring (read your scootercentral link, thanks) while your'e using a 60mm longstroke cranshaft with 105mm con rod; which only bell shaped crankshaft availabe in the market!

And here I've found this; using 60mm 110mm cranks with additional 5mm packer. Is it possible? With additional 3mm on the stroke and 5mm on your rod, did you require a 6.5mm packer in total? (gonna use a 172cc cylinder kit collecting dust for the time being)

Does it effecting your transfer/exhaust timing? Well since it's a reed conversion, no problem right? But how about the ignition timing? I don't believe a packer is the only adjustments required.

There is a Mazz 57mm 105mm rod crank available, but some other threads questioning their quality.

Yes, I can use normal flowed shaft but once I do it, I'm gonna do it right. Got all the parts ready except the correct crank.

Will post my progress once all ready.

Waiting for your reply Ginch! Thanks.
Hi Pengsterism.

Having a reed or a rotary valve will have no affect on the port timing, or the ignition timing so you don't need to be concerned about that. By using a 60mm stroke crank however, it allows you to a point to choose your port timing. Ignoring the 5mm packer for the moment, if you fit the 60mm crank then you need to pack up the cylinder by 1.5mm. This packing can go at the bottom (raises port timing, tends to let it rev more) or at the top (tends to increase torque). You may be limited to a degree by your cylinder design however, eg you don't want the rings getting to or over the top edge of the cylinder.

Scooter and Service do a 60mm bell crank - for a bit more money (due back in stock August 2016!) - with a 105 rod, but as you read the angle produced is not exactly ideal. Having said that I run a (flowed type) 60/105 with a 177 and you wouldn't know there was any issue.

I have learned since writing that, there is another issue you need to overcome to make the 200 crank swap work in a Sprint case, and that's the clutch bearing/seal situation as they are reversed compared to the P cases. Read this for how you go about it -
http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16229

I think it's neat solution except for the bit where the bearing is retained by compound. But, a good friend came up with a way to make it work, even though that wasn't the problem he was trying to solve... You can see here in the picture below he's drilled a hole in the case directly above the bearing. The hole has been threaded and in there he first placed a ball bearing, then a grub screw. All you would need then (and maybe he did it, haven't looked at the bearing) is to grind a short v in the outside of the bearing race for the ball bearing to locate into.

Look, it's a bit of work and the results may be not quite tangible - after all you won't have a second motor the same except for crank to make a comparison to - but as an interesting exercise that can't fail to work then you may find it worthwhile.


Otherwise here is a not bad looking option which is a pretty minimal crank for not much money -
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/flowed+crankshaft+serie+pro+_46020000
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
Thanks for the reply Ginch. Never expected a fast reply on an old thread .

Yeahh about the engine case.. I'm gonna leave that 2 port case in the cupboard for a while and use a P150S case instead. Sorry to troubled you for that.

It's a Quattrini M1X on a PS case if i need to mention, with an expansion chamber and other performance stuffs to be put on so mild tuned is out of question. My scale of 'mild tuned' is a pinasco cylinder and SI carb, I don't know if the rest of the world agrees with me on that.

I have a Pinasco longstroke 105mm crank flowed crankshaft and if you can still remember I've asked if it is ok to use flowed crankshaft on a reed converted engine and you said no problem at all. It eases me a bit but I don't think that I can get the best result out of it due to the volume of the crank. As we all agreed the bell shaped are the best option and here we are, in the longstroke 105mm loop all over again.

I think I've dive too soon on this.
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pengsterism wrote:
Thanks for the reply Ginch. Never expected a fast reply on an old thread .

Yeahh about the engine case.. I'm gonna leave that 2 port case in the cupboard for a while and use a P150S case instead. Sorry to troubled you for that.

It's a Quattrini M1X on a PS case if i need to mention, with an expansion chamber and other performance stuffs to be put on so mild tuned is out of question. My scale of 'mild tuned' is a pinasco cylinder and SI carb, I don't know if the rest of the world agrees with me on that.

I have a Pinasco longstroke 105mm crank flowed crankshaft and if you can still remember I've asked if it is ok to use flowed crankshaft on a reed converted engine and you said no problem at all. It eases me a bit but I don't think that I can get the best result out of it due to the volume of the crank. As we all agreed the bell shaped are the best option and here we are, in the longstroke 105mm loop all over again.

I think I've dive too soon on this.
Now I realized that you can't get a lifetime reliability on a tuned engine. Otherwise you should stick with stock and make your vespa a family heirloom. The piston and/or the piston ring will wear down sooner or later but when we're talking about non-ideal longstroke 105mm crank, how soon? How bad? What's the worst things could happened?

Assumed that I've made my mind and go for a bell shaped 60mm 105mm crank. There's all or I'm expecting other cons along the way?
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UTC quote
pengsterism wrote:
Now I realized that you can't get a lifetime reliability on a tuned engine.
That depends on what kind of build you do.... if you go rotary... you're bound to get more maintenance free miles (if the engine is set up correctly and cared for) ....

Personally... I'm a fan of reed setups.... However... reeds will splinter, fray and need replacing more often no doubt than a well cared for rotary pad would need any "attending to"...

Set up / tuned correctly... you can get plenty of power out of either setup... reed or rotary....

Rotary P200's are known to go hundreds and hundreds... if not well over a thousand miles (there's a thread on the forum documenting some of these stories/fugures) with a stock engine configuration....
@ginch avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
The short answer is I don't know how long it will last but I would imagine a long time. I've had a couple of Pinascos with that 60/105 crank and I seized them before ring wear became apparent!
So perhaps the easier way is to go for this one and not worry about the ring wear... just buy a set to have ready.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Is the PS150 case the same as a PX 150? Does it have the same arrangement of bearings and seals? I ask because I see a PS150 has Super drums, fork etc.
@pengsterism avatar
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UTC quote
Vader19 wrote:
pengsterism wrote:
Now I realized that you can't get a lifetime reliability on a tuned engine.
That depends on what kind of build you do.... if you go rotary... you're bound to get more maintenance free miles (if the engine is set up correctly and cared for) ....

Personally... I'm a fan of reed setups.... However... reeds will splinter, fray and need replacing more often no doubt than a well cared for rotary pad would need any "attending to"...

Set up / tuned correctly... you can get plenty of power out of either setup... reed or rotary....

Rotary P200's are known to go hundreds and hundreds... if not well over a thousand miles (there's a thread on the forum documenting some of these stories/fugures) with a stock engine configuration....
My VBC was mildly tuned with Pinasco 177 with SI carb and rotary valve for 6 years and changed the piston rings only once. I'm happy with it and I wanna keep it that way. Totally agree with you.

My next project will be a reed induction motor.

Hope I can made a thread about it. If all goes well.
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Is the PS150 case the same as a PX 150? Does it have the same arrangement of bearings and seals? I ask because I see a PS150 has Super drums, fork etc.
PS is a PX but without signal lamps. I do believe that it came with an engine similar to PX. I don't really like the P series so I'm not paying much attention.

Good suggestion Ginch, we'll do some research on that crank. Hopefully it's well balanced.

Thanks,
Adam
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