OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
Quick couple of questions : is the p200e crankshaft a tad bit shorter in length than a lml (px 150) crankshaft ? I am begining to wonder if this is why I am almost out of adjustment for my clutch cable (and cover). I put the clutch cover from my previous LML 150 engine on this engine . I do have an older paggio marked cover . should I use this ?
Thanks !
willc.
@bholinath avatar
UTC

Addicted
Rally 200, SS 180, ET3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 688
Location: UK
 
Addicted
@bholinath avatar
Rally 200, SS 180, ET3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 688
Location: UK
UTC quote
There is a good chance that the 150 and 125 have a smaller clutch cover (in depth at least). So please check
UTC

Addicted
1961 vbb and 1981 p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 579
Location: iowa
 
Addicted
1961 vbb and 1981 p125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 579
Location: iowa
UTC quote
I'm not sure on any diff in depth. Isnt there a brass bushing inside the cover. Could it be wore? What about the arm on the cover being bent or twisted?
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
The LML made Stella 2T has a 7 spring clutch . As does the p200e . My best guess at this moment is the brass plunger is almost fully extended out against the clutch pressure plate now ( via the clutch cover arms foot the plunger goes on top of ) . The lever itself below isn't bent in any way and is as it should be . I do have a new clutch pressure plate , plunger (and a full gasket set with other small parts ) on the way from scooter mercato . The clutch cable adjuster I currently have on the scoot is abit longer than the typical stock clutch cable adjuster (the clutch cable goes through). It is almost fully screwed out of the crankcase hole where it goes through. At this moment i'm kinda stuck waiting to do more work till the weather finally warms up abit and the parts show up. Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon
I'll post a couple of photos of the seperate piaggio marked clutch cover I have (not on scoot)Thursday afternoon.

Happy Holidays !! Razz emoticon
willc.
@fastfrog avatar
UTC

Hooked
PX125,200, T5, SS180,TS125 and some more...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 203
Location: Paris, Taxes!
 
Hooked
@fastfrog avatar
PX125,200, T5, SS180,TS125 and some more...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 203
Location: Paris, Taxes!
UTC quote
mind that a 7 spring clutch needs a P200 cover. The main difference between a 125 and 200 cover is the lost of a peripherical back-up to leave free the basket clutch when running.
@rob_hodge avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
 
Molto Verboso
@rob_hodge avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
are you using the proper thrust washer behind the clutch?

there are two different thicknesses, depending on early vs late and oil injected vs not. being an LML clutch, it should have the thicker thrust washer if not oil injected, and the oil injection gear if running with oil injection.

most likely you've omitted it altogether. if this is the case, you'll tighten the crap out of it to the end of adjustment but it'll still drag.

the way to diagnose if you have omitted this easier is easy. with the bike off the stand, not running and in gear, pull and hold in the clutch. roll the bike forwards and backwards. if the clutch slips when you roll the bike one way and grabs giving you resistance and tries to turn the flywheel when you push the other, you've forgotten it. remove your clutch and install the washer/oil injection gear and the problem will go away.

one thing to note- this test only works with stock helical primaries, not straight cut aftermarket kits
@fastfrog avatar
UTC

Hooked
PX125,200, T5, SS180,TS125 and some more...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 203
Location: Paris, Taxes!
 
Hooked
@fastfrog avatar
PX125,200, T5, SS180,TS125 and some more...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 203
Location: Paris, Taxes!
UTC quote
+1 check you haven't omitted the 3,7mm thick washer. Never had an issue using the oil injection gear even without autolube...
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
The clutch was a complete and brand new unit when I put it in in June . The clutch plate and brass punger was also new . D@#$ Indian made parts !! This p200 engine is kickstart only with no oil injection . It has the lml electronic ignition system since my scoot frame is an 04 2T Stella . When I installed the clutch I used the non injection mechanism spacer that was in the vsx hardware kit I purchased from mercato in march . Till the weather improves abit here ( 2" of frozen white stuff fell over friday night saturday morning with temps now in the teen's ) and my parts order from mercatio shows up I'm on a holding pattern. One more quick note: there was a difference between the 2 covers concerning the plunger. The paggio cover was less clutch cable adjustment when Ihad it on the engine than what the lml cover was.
willc. Wha? emoticon

p.S. Thanks for the input ! Happy Holidays !
@rob_hodge avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
 
Molto Verboso
@rob_hodge avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
The clutches should be the same height, barring worn corks. Set them on a table next to each other and eyeball them. Or, if you want to be precise, set them gear down on a table and use the depth gauge of your caliper to neasure from the table to where the pressure plate goes

Incorrect asssebly of your 7 spring clutch can also cause height issues and or adjustment problems. You do know about the alignment hole on gthese, right?

Was the spacer washer you used the. Thin one with no wodruff key cutout or the thicker one with a keyway cutout?
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
Answer to Robs questions : i know about the alighnment holes on the clutch spring plate and the clutch housing . They were both in line when I put the new clutch in . I used the thicker washer with the key cut out instead of the geared one used for the oil injection feature. I don't have the oil injection mechanism machined out on this crankcase . The crankcase is simmilar to what was used on the paggio vespa TX200 scoots made in Spain . I built this engine as a stock non electric start ( a/e kickstart only) p200e with an efl gearset . It has a mazal stock crankshaft , si 24/24 carb .no oil injection. I also need to trackdown the other clutch cover that is buried somewhere in the front passenger seat area of my cold cold car . Crying or Very sad emoticon
Crying or Very sad emoticon unfortunatly till things warm up a bit more ( a/e get above freezing) I'm stuck waiting to do any further work on the scoot . I don't have access to a garage so the scoot will have to wait . I did get the scoots engine up and running this evening despite the extreme cold we are currently having here in Boise ( actual temp is about 5F (or -15C ) ) temp ) Crying or Very sad emoticon
willc. Wha? emoticon
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
One more quick note: I do my homework as best as I can and ask questions from those more knowlagable before I start on any big projects like this. There was a few hick ups during assembly earlier this year ( a/e: getting a nasty case of bronchitis and using the wrong lml electronic igy box for the non electric start LML flywheel stator assy I used . Hopefully early next month I'll be able to track down the proper correct paggio P series clutch cover (reasonably priced).
BRRRRRR ! Crying or Very sad emoticon
willc.
@vader19 avatar
UTC

Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
 
Mr. Clean
@vader19 avatar
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
UTC quote
Damn that's cold KMan! stay warm, don't get sick, eat hot soup and check w/ Kyle at Kyle's scooter shop for a clutch cover..

Good luck, resurrect when the spring thaw is upon us!
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
It was only a "toasty"-7F last night. I have 2 nice and warm cats to strap on should it be nessisary to do so !!
OP
UTC

Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
 
Hooked
04 Stella 2T 200cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 176
Location: Boise Idaho
UTC quote
[URL=http://s435.photobucket.com/user/shalom72c/media/clcvertop.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

[URL=http://s435.photobucket.com/user/shalom72c/media/clcverbottom.jpg.html]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/URL]

Here are pics of the piaggio clutch cover I currently have that isn't on the scoot, Would this be a better fit ??
willc.
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