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Hi!

I'm replacing all the turn lights into LEDs. The rear is done and OK, but when I replaced the front, the fast blinking problem raised.

So I need to add the famous load resistors... but I have some concerns about this. The ones I found in superbrightleds are:

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/marker-lamp-load-resistor/191/832/
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/tail-light-load-resistor-kit/190/831/

They are rated 20Ohm/25Watts the first and 6Ohm/50Watt the second.

Well, the first is to decide which one to use... suggestions?

But beyond that, what a load resistor like this is doing, is just dissipate energy in form of heat... so at the end you are not saving power consumption from bulb to led+resistor...

Wouldn't it have more sense to have the bulb PLUS the LED, so at least you are putting the energy in form of light instead of heat?

Different opinions are welcome.
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Re: Revisiting LED turn indicators + load resistors
canopus wrote:
Hi!

I'm replacing all the turn lights into LEDs. The rear is done and OK, but when I replaced the front, the fast blinking problem raised.

So I need to add the famous load resistors... but I have some concerns about this. The ones I found in superbrightleds are:

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/marker-lamp-load-resistor/191/832/
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/tail-light-load-resistor-kit/190/831/

They are rated 20Ohm/25Watts the first and 6Ohm/50Watt the second.

Well, the first is to decide which one to use... suggestions?

But beyond that, what a load resistor like this is doing, is just dissipate energy in form of heat... so at the end you are not saving power consumption from bulb to led+resistor...

Wouldn't it have more sense to have the bulb PLUS the LED, so at least you are putting the energy in form of light instead of heat?

Different opinions are welcome.
You want the 6 Ohm units - the 20 Ohm units will not place enough load on the relay to engage at a slower rate. Even 25W (even 15W) is plenty of heat dissipation.
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This is why I query those who change their turn indicators to LEDs. Unless you spring for a separate turn signal relay that doesn't care about load, you have to have at least a certain current flowing for the speed to be right. Plus then you'd lose the hazard warning option.

As indicators are so intermittently used, they use eff-all extra energy anyway.

They can be brighter and more visible though, as the on-off slope is more square-wave than sine-wave - that would be the only reason I might ever change mine, and frankly I can't be bothered.
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You don't lose the hazard warning option. The hazard lights are not controlled by the same system that freaks out over the load on the circuit being too low. I have done the LED conversion and *prefer* the faster blink of the signals for noticeability, and the hazard lights continue to work normally at the normal speed.
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Sidecutter wrote:
I have done the LED conversion and *prefer* the faster blink of the signals for noticeability, and the hazard lights continue to work normally at the normal speed.
This is another option I'm considering... what I don't see at all is the load resistor... too much heat and so many plastic around...

No problem to leave the blinking system always in that fast mode? How long have you been riding like that? No legal issues also?
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Sidecutter wrote:
You don't lose the hazard warning option. The hazard lights are not controlled by the same system that freaks out over the load on the circuit being too low. I have done the LED conversion and *prefer* the faster blink of the signals for noticeability, and the hazard lights continue to work normally at the normal speed.
You lose it if you use a separate relay (to avoid the fast LED flashing).

Legally, indicators can flash between 60 and 120 times a minute - between 1Hz and 2Hz. Any faster and you give LEOs an excuse to pull you over should they so wish. Normally Piaggio indicators flash at about 1.5Hz, and go to 3Hz if one lamp is burned out or disconnected.
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jimc wrote:
They can be brighter and more visible though, as the on-off slope is more square-wave than sine-wave - that would be the only reason I might ever change mine, and frankly I can't be bothered.
I like the brighter output, and the quick change draws the eye much more. We humans are hard-wired to watch for changes - transients get our attention (visually or aurally) because they indicate a potential threat.

It's not about saving power (there's precious little in turn signals) but making them more visible. I also use a "fuzz" brake light modulator that blinks the rear brake LEDs at 10 Hz for 2 seconds (20 flashes in 2 seconds) and REALLY gets your attention.
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I totally agree, Dan. I already have the admore lights in the back with that blinking on the brake.

But I still need to think about it, after Jimc comment about the legality (BTW thanks for your input, Jim).
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canopus wrote:
This is another option I'm considering... what I don't see at all is the load resistor... too much heat and so many plastic around...

No problem to leave the blinking system always in that fast mode? How long have you been riding like that? No legal issues also?
You can safely mount the load resistors in several places where there is plenty of space and airflow to be fine. I just don't see any reason to avoid my flashers flashing at 2 per second instead of one per. I've been like that for over a year and a half and nothing has ever come of it. Plenty of LEOs have seen them. You have to run into a completely bored LEO who feels like being a huge asshole before they will ever bother you over it.
jimc wrote:
You lose it if you use a separate relay (to avoid the fast LED flashing).

Legally, indicators can flash between 60 and 120 times a minute - between 1Hz and 2Hz. Any faster and you give LEOs an excuse to pull you over should they so wish. Normally Piaggio indicators flash at about 1.5Hz, and go to 3Hz if one lamp is burned out or disconnected.
Yeah but why would you put in a second relay in the first place for them? To do so at all would be foolish since it kills the flashers, and there's no reason to. Just add the resistors and be done, it's much faster, easier, and cleaner.
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UTC quote
Re: Revisiting LED turn indicators + load resistors
canopus wrote:
Hi!

I'm replacing all the turn lights into LEDs. The rear is done and OK, but when I replaced the front, the fast blinking problem raised.

So I need to add the famous load resistors... but I have some concerns about this. The ones I found in superbrightleds are:

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/marker-lamp-load-resistor/191/832/
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-install-supplies/tail-light-load-resistor-kit/190/831/

They are rated 20Ohm/25Watts the first and 6Ohm/50Watt the second.

Well, the first is to decide which one to use... suggestions?

But beyond that, what a load resistor like this is doing, is just dissipate energy in form of heat... so at the end you are not saving power consumption from bulb to led+resistor...

Wouldn't it have more sense to have the bulb PLUS the LED, so at least you are putting the energy in form of light instead of heat?

Different opinions are welcome.
I have considered the path you are taking, but later decided to just put the LED's in the Rear, and leave the stock bulbs in the front.
The combination of the two allows for the MP3 Relay to work correctly.

I just didn't see much more payback in changing the fronts and have the load resisters to deal with. They sort of defeat the purpose of saving on the battery as they create a load similar to the stock bulbs. So what you get is the same load, with LED Bulb life. I have seen bulbs that have the load resistors built into them, and after reading the specs, no different then a regular bulb.

Keith
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While true for the turn signals, you would still see significant savings on power in the running and tail/brake lights which are used pretty much all the time. IIRC, when I worked up the numbers, the draw of the LED bulbs all around was about 25% of the draw from the original incandescents, on average.
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As I recall I used the 6 Ohm resistors. I needed two (rewired, I'll write it out here) and secured them to a scrap piece of extruded aluminum DIN rail as extra heat sink in case (overkill). This was then secured to the frame under the forward cowl with a couple zip ties. Here's a picture, they are to the right:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I replaced all four turn signals with LED lamps, but also added new LED side markers as well. In addition I added Magic Blinkers so my turn signals were now always lighted for extra visibility. I used red LEDs for the rear signals since they would now always be lighted as markers too, and flash only as a turn indicator.

I was not happy with the way the signals flashed off-on front and rear so I routed a new cable from front to rear and rewired the signals so that the entire side of the scoot flashes at one time when a turn signal is on - including the new side marker lights.

Since I had added new small LED turn signal marker to the dash I did not want them on all the time like the magic blinkers, so they were wired to the signals prior to the magic blinkers.

Everything worked and continues to work great.

The entire thread: Same mods, sorta kinda, but different...



...
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Sidecutter wrote:
While true for the turn signals, you would still see significant savings on power in the running and tail/brake lights which are used pretty much all the time. IIRC, when I worked up the numbers, the draw of the LED bulbs all around was about 25% of the draw from the original incandescents, on average.
Agree 100% on this. In fact, I already replaced all lights to leds in the back, now working in the front.
BravoTwoFour wrote:
Here's a picture, they are to the right:
Thanks for the picture with detailed components location.

Still thinking about to place the load resistors or not... maybe another option is to place lots of turning indicator leds until I match the power load... then I will probably have a christmas tree bike
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BravoTwoFour wrote:
As I recall I used the 6 Ohm resistors. I needed two (rewired, I'll write it out here) and secured them to a scrap piece of extruded aluminum DIN rail as extra heat sink in case (overkill).
...
Correct, you need one 6 Ohm resistor per LED bulb. If you do both front and back, then you need a 3 Ohm load (two 6 Ohm resistors in parallel). If you do just the rears, you need a 6 Ohm load.
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I attached my load resistors to the bit of pipe that hold the rear quarter panel.
I attached it using a metal zip-tie and some plastic ones.
There seemed like plenty space away from the body work.
I spliced it into the ground that goes to the rear signal.
It's been there for six months - no melted plastic.
Even the plastic zip-ties look fine.
The blink rate with the 3ohm is a bit quick - but well within legal limits.

I'll post a picture later tonight.
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Don't know if these are different, better or what as I do not plan to change lights, but just passing on some information, useful or otherwise.......

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Turn-Signal-Indicator-Load-Resistors-Equalizers-Fits-Gilera-Fuoco-500-/400613354230?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5d466aaaf6
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I usea Rizoma "Zero-11" LED Turn Signal from

[Url]PJSparts.com[/url]

They are expensive, but they are BRIGHT according to my MP3 mechanic who put them on my scoot while I was healing.
I have seen them blink in bright Texas sun and they made the sun light look dingy.

They are worth the price.

I just wish I had them installed before I was hit by an idiot.

He would of seen me then.
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FunkyMonkey wrote:
They are expensive...
Dammit, $45 each IS expensive indeed... although they are really a beautiful piece.

I'm mounting these:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44758/i/bikemaster-narrow-arrow-head-led-turn-signals

$28 a pair. Currently installed in the back, bright as hell, and tiny, no that huge pod the 500 use to have.
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Shanghai Dan wrote:
BravoTwoFour wrote:
As I recall I used the 6 Ohm resistors. I needed two (rewired, I'll write it out here) and secured them to a scrap piece of extruded aluminum DIN rail as extra heat sink in case (overkill).
...
Correct, you need one 6 Ohm resistor per LED bulb. If you do both front and back, then you need a 3 Ohm load (two 6 Ohm resistors in parallel). If you do just the rears, you need a 6 Ohm load.
I used one 6 ohm resistor for each entire side of the scooter; two signal LEDs and two marker LEDs per side, plus the added indicator LED. They flash at a reasonably normal rate, perhaps 1.5Hz. Rewiring to flash the entire side at once means only one resistor was required per side.
⬆️    About 5 months elapsed    ⬇️
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BravoTwoFour wrote:
Correct, you need one 6 Ohm resistor per LED bulb. If you do both front and back, then you need a 3 Ohm load (two 6 Ohm resistors in parallel). If you do just the rears, you need a 6 Ohm load.
Well, does it matter if the resistor is 25 watt-6 ohm; or 50 watt-6 ohm?
⚠️ Last edited by sushiman007 on UTC; edited 1 time
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12W will do.
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Still your dissipating heat through the resistors, your not saving any amperage.

Modify the turn signal switch to remove the latch, put in this module to replace the stock one that some have had burn up, and get the bonus of self-cancelling turn signals

http://www.signaldynamics.com/penta-star-module/


I would do this one, wire front & rear to the front outputs of the module. That way if you are at a light the timer for the signal shutoff begins when you release the brake. All you lose is the hazards with the key off feature. WTF uses that anyway?
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