OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
We are having fun with this one...
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=936406

Should have it running tomorrow.
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
It's Alive!
Stay tuned for a preliminary report. :twisted
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Still working on it...
A lot of frustration getting the carb back to working. Yes, the diaphragm can be frustrating to properly reinstall.. These folks know.
Vespa ET4 Running Issues. Help please
We are disconnecting all of the evap crap to see if that might help with a lot of decel pop/backfiring.
Acceleration times have cumulatively improved. Malossi variator+PM pipe+Piaggio 200 cc jug= .78 sec improvement over a measured course. This time now compares to my GT200 over the same distance.
Until we get the carb jetting sorted out I will withhold final opinion on the benefits gained using this kit. Other threads have opined the power increase compared to the Malossi kit improvement is somewhat mild.

"I know when these Liberty 200s came out they didn't have any more speed than a 125/150, just got there a bit quicker. The stock set up used low compression and was under carbed to reduce high rpm output (think VW Beetle). Lots of low and mid grunt." MODNROD

We shall see...
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Waiting...
If the weather ever breaks in our favor, we will be testing some different jetting. I think we are almost to the goals set at the beginning. Just a bit more fiddling with fuel/air mix and good weather for testing to verify.
Full report to come.
Cheers!
Driller
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Almost There!
Acceleration tests have the BlowFly covering the same measured course only .1 sec slower than my GT200. However, the original top speed of 60-62 still eludes us. More jetting trials and maybe some changing of weights should have us at the original goals.
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Just about finished with tuning. A crash course in tweaking the transmission has been pretty challenging but with a better weather forecast ahead we may be ready to test a couple of weight and spring combos and post final results.
Don't change that dial!
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Where you at Mike?
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
I be here.
Vic did what what will probably be the last mods for now.
The BlowFly is now running our measured course faster than the GT200. We will post a summary of what has been done to reach that level.
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Results Are In
This project has been an entertaining period of "constructive recreation". It gave us something to do in the basement over the winter. Here is a summary of the results from our tinkering.
Many thanks to my Friend Vic, whose mechanical skills made this happen.

The Fly started with about 14,000 miles.
Stock performance with new 10gm rollers, belt and rear tire yielded an acceleration time of 10.51 sec over a measured course. Top speed per gps was 57mph.
The following changes were made over a period of testing that measured performance after each modification.

PM Tuning Pipe
Piaggio Liberty 200cc cylinder and piston.
White Malossi main clutch spring from Multivar variator kit
Remove intake tube from air filter.
95 main jet
.05 shim washer under clip on needle.
DR Pulley sliders in stock variator. Total 60gm (same weight as stock)
Red clutch shoe springs. (stock springs seemed just as effective.)

Results......9.10 ET over course and top speed of 58.5mph.
This time is lower than my GT200!
##Note that the top speed was recorded on a separate run than the acceleration. Don't want you to think 58.5 mph was reached in 9.10 sec. We will have that number after taking it to the track.##
The original goal of stronger, quicker acceleration up to 50-55 mph has been met. Higher top speed was not expected due to gearing. Actually when the bike was at sea level in stock form, the top speed seemed to settle in closer to 60, but that was not verified by GPS.
Here in the hills and mountains of North Carolina the Fly pulls very nicely. Pull out of the turns is strong, making for a fun ride.

All of our testing (details in the linked thread on ADV) was extensive, putting over 600 miles on the bike. There was a lot of trial and error getting to the final configuration which works well in our hands.
Hopefully, this summary will allow anyone wanting install this kit to go right to the target without much distraction.

After thoughts....
Disconnecting the shock and allowing the wheel to drop a bit makes removing the tranny cover much easier. The body work of the Fly makes it much more aggravating than on an ET4 or LX.
Very little change in top speed can be gained without changing the gearing. An up gear kit can be installed and with the increase in power higher speed is available (not what we were looking for).
Speaking of power...this kit has a lower compression than the stock 150 or the Mallosi kit. According to Liberty specs, peak power is delivered at lower rpms 6750. As one inmate said "like a VW". Still, good torque but not to the point of lifting the front wheel off the pavement. Just a strong solid pull right on to 50mph.
We learned about tuning the variator to work most efficiently at peak power output. Lighter rollers/sliders gave very snappy off line acceleration but got past the peak of the power curve too quickly resulting in lower top speed and a fall off in acceleration above 45mph.

Plans are afoot to have a face off with a Fly modded with the same pipe and the Malossi BBK at the dragstrip. Might be interesting and fun at the least.

Now that the weather is easing it will soon be time to get out and beat the BlowFly like a rented mule. As Devo said "Whip it, Whip it good!" 8)
⚠️ Last edited by Driller on UTC; edited 1 time
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Love this project and your write up.

I'm a total fan of the Fly. It's a great little scooter, pretty damn quick as is, great to hear it can be made even quicker. Our 2006 has 12000 miles on it. We just put a new Piaggio belt and a set of stock 10gm Piaggio rollers on ours and it accelerates like a beast. We've hit 61 mph GPS confirmed and it feels like it could do a bit more. Doesn't surprise me that bumping it up to 200cc would make it quicker to 55mph than the GT200. The power/weight ratio between the two scoots gives the Fly a huge advantage. If I'm not mistaken, the Fly is some 50 lbs lighter that the GT in stock form, and would be even lighter with the PM pipe and minus all the evap stuff. I'd be interested in knowing what the final test weights of your scoots was.

Again, great write up. And you are so right about disconnecting the rear shock... makes working on the tranny and everything else much, much easier. 8)
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Thanks, Mike. Wish someone would try this kit on a Fly or Typhoon.
http://scooterpartsco.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=131&products_id=364 Only about 170cc. Almost went for this over the 200.
@ducatiss avatar
UTC

Addicted
1979 P200E, 2006 Piaggio Fly 150, 2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 623
Location: Atlanta
 
Addicted
@ducatiss avatar
1979 P200E, 2006 Piaggio Fly 150, 2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 623
Location: Atlanta
UTC quote
Re: Results Are In
Driller wrote:
Plans are afoot to have a face off with a Fly modded with the same pipe and the Malossi BBK at the dragstrip. Might be interesting and fun at the least.

Now that the weather is easing it will soon be time to get out and beat the BlowFly like a rented mule. As Devo said "Whip it, Whip it good!" 8)
Mike and Vic have done a great job with their project. It has been VERY helpful to follow their progress. I debated about the Malossi 190 vs Liberty 200 vs the Poloni 170 when we did the upgrade to the wife's Fly150. I chose the Malossi based upon a deal that was sitting on the shelf, and the Vespa mechanic's urging, so I am eagerly looking forward to our face off.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
@vedran avatar
UTC

Member
LX 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Novigrad
 
Member
@vedran avatar
LX 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Novigrad
UTC quote
Hi guys!
I just installed the 200 ccm kit on my lx 125 with the new 10 gr rollers and all is running great.
Bike is running fine with about the same top speed as before. On the other hand my fuel consumtion is realy bad. With the full tank I barely managed to ride 100 km. Is that normal?
I havent messed with the carb at all, its bone stock. Do I need to rejet?

Hope you can help.

V
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
That seems very high consumption for stock jetting. We went to a larger jet and the mileage went down as expected from about 65mpg to 45~50mpg. Willhave to think about this. Nerd emoticon
@vedran avatar
UTC

Member
LX 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Novigrad
 
Member
@vedran avatar
LX 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Novigrad
UTC quote
Maybe it's because it's not broken in yet. It's killing my wallet... Crying or Very sad emoticon
OP
@driller avatar
UTC

Hooked
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
 
Hooked
@driller avatar
Scarabeo 150, SC 250, 2t Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 166
Location: Tryon NC
UTC quote
Yes, that hurts the wallet. Do check the plug. If it is black and/or wet things are too rich and some rejetting is needed. Good luck!
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10341
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@znomit avatar
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10341
Location: Hermit Kingdom
UTC quote
Vedran wrote:
Hi guys!
I just installed the 200 ccm kit on my lx 125 with the new 10 gr rollers and all is running great.
Bike is running fine with about the same top speed as before. On the other hand my fuel consumtion is realy bad. With the full tank I barely managed to ride 100 km. Is that normal?
I havent messed with the carb at all, its bone stock. Do I need to rejet?

Hope you can help.

V
Don't you need to regear it from 125?
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