Modern Vespa

This really has little to do with scooters but thought maybe others would be interested. A few years back I became interested in alternate fuels. It started with attempts to just increase mileage by supper heating gas before it entered the combustion camber and injecting water into the intake. This does increase mileage. The down side is heating fuel is dangerous. Water injection also increased the mileage. This turned to the idea of running on water as fuel. Basic idea is if you run electricty into water you boil off the hydrogen. They call this electrolese. Forgive the spelling. If you want to try this at home, take a bucket of water drop the pos and neg ends of your battery charger in it and put a lid on. In a min or two open the lid and drop a match in. The hydrogen will light on fire. It's kinda fun to. Anyhow. Taking this idea a I built a fuel cell with multi cathodes to boil off the water. From the top of the container I ran a butterfly valve to attempt to control fuel supply and ran the hose into the intake of a 5hp brigg and strat engine. The wires from the mag were run into a sqaure wave generator and then a coil to up the ampage. A battery charger was used to start production of hydrogen then the engine was started. After the engine was running the charger could be unplugged and the engine would chug along without a care in world. Despite many attempts the vary the the rpms the sad truth of the matter is it would not produce enough hydrogen from the water to go any faster. Turning the battery charger on would increase the hydrogen production and thus the speed but you can't carry a battery charger down the road. Anyhow, life got busy the project sat and rusted as well as many useful parts of my brain. I every so often think back on the project and wonder if someone with more money and more brains than I was working on it could it be done. I know there are many nay sayers will say it can't be done, but I have seen an engine start on only water.

Alright. It's official. Too much internet for you. You are getting dangerously close "TurtleVespa" territory (without posting the pictures).

Also, in regards to hydrogen gas: no need to toss a match in, since it will explode when you pull the lid off. And that is if it doesn't explode before and shoots the lid into your face knocking all your teeth out.

Anyone who tries such a goofy experiment in a manner you describe is a bloody fucking idiot.

So now would or wouldn't be a good time to tell tales of mixing ammonna and iodine across the road and hiding in the ditch till a car came and watch it. Lol. Or the time we filled a car inner tube with lp stuck it under a junk car throw a little gas on it then got on the car and dropped a match. What was my point? Oh it may be a little foolish but you only live once. I thought it may be a subject others enjoyed. I would have been working on this ten plus years ago. Perhaps before Al gore invented the internet. Perhaps I should look and see if others are playing with this idea.

I enjoyed the part where you filled the inner tube with propane...

I don't know if this really needs to be written...but here goes...

Let's say it takes a certain amount of electrical energy to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Let's again assume a certain amount of energy is produced when Hydrogen is oxidized into water. Not amazingly, these two processes take the same amount of energy. Now given that there is inefficiency in each of the processes (some of the electricity gets lost, some of the hydrogen escapes, the hydrogen does not completely burn, there is friction in the motor, the motor gets warm, the exhaust is warm, etc.)...It all adds up to not being able to run forever.

What you describe is one item that the US Patent office has a strict rule on, they will not even entertain for a moment the idea of a perpetual motion machine for patent, because it does not exist...

TR, you are a true slayer of dreams.

You all are complicating this more than need be.

Lets look at it this way........

The human body cant even run on just water eventually it needs fuel. If you don't feed the human machine it uses its mass to survive but eventually vitals breakdown and we die.

Try just seeing if your body will burn just water.......aint happenin folks.

Gotta griz on stuff. Just like our motors need fuel. Carbon based mother earth in a liquid form. Good ole cooked and refined crude.

i cant read that without paragraphs




my solar panels are putting out enough to run half a dozen houses with all the fruit at the moment though

Topic title is a bit misleading: we're talking about a 'water + electricity' powered engine - which is at all quite possible. Problem with hydrogen used to be how to store is safely in a fuel cell.

Feeling kinda thirsty. I'm headed to the well.

This was an interesting read;
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

This is an even better read. Go down to the 'Scientific' section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

And better read for all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_nutrition

there ......

Personally, I think Johann Joachim Becher hit the nail on the head when he developed what became known as the phlogiston theory. Since 7th Grade General Science, that's been my favorite approach to maximizing combustion energy.

Surely the only low cost fuel alternative is methane. Its not taxed by the gov. and you need very little external power input to generate it.

Basically a biological digester that takes human and/or animal waste and uses bacteria to break it down will give you all the methane you could ever want. You will then need to compress it and mount a pressurised tank on your scooter.

If someone somewhere in the world is not doing exactly that I would be very surprised.

And then when you get in an accident that tank explodes and rips you half.

Have you no sense of adventure?

Iodine and ammonia and blotting paper brings back happy memories.

Grumpy

Sometimes my compressed gas feels like its gonna rip me in half I tell ya.

Here's a fantastic documentary about how one boy saved the world with an experimental fuel source. Enlightening!

Hello


Remembering the scene in blazing saddles or was it an advert.

Grumpy

Mongo like beans....

Thank you! I had long forgotten that little detour.

It's a toss up between this and the Chinese girl getting smashed in the rear end.

In 9th Grade, we created a Phlogiston Society as a bit of a joke. Would gather at the local soda fountain for "meetings".

somebody put a gasifier on their vespa NOW!

In 9th grade for a science fair I used a syphon setup and had the pouring water run a water wheel to light up some LEDs . I called it a self contained hydrodamn the teachers called it a perpepal motion machine and disqualified it despite it running for the entire school day. Its always amazes me how many ney sayers there are who have never tried. I'm not claiming to know the science behind this. What is clear is hydrogen does burn or bond with o2. And this is what is driving the engine. What is also clear is the engine is able to produce enough electrical power to break the bond holding the hydrogen to the o2. At the time I was playing with this I did write a couple papers and talked with many people about it. Oddly enough with enough screaching some of it is refanced on diff internet sites. Heck some claim they even have the thing working. All kinds of stuff on browns gas. As for scooter power. What about compressed air, like that girls rocket. Engines can run on compressed air. I'm sure some of you will be knocked on your butts by by power. Its a chance we may need to take.

All the internet-forum science in the world and you can't spell simple words. I call bullshit on your LED project from 1978.

Compressed air works really well, only you cannot store it easily or in quantity, liquid air works even better if you can keep it cold enough for long enough.

Grumpy

All the hot air from this thread could power the universe forever!!

Where were the papers published? Before they were published, how was the peer review accomplished, anonymous or open peer?


Some of us take that science junk seriously.

I think perpetual motion machines ought to be allowed to be entered in science fairs, but the whole class then has to figure out where the energy is coming from. If the students can't figure it out then the teacher explains it.

Most of us have seen, or thought we saw, devices that behave this way. In all of these cases the second law of thermodynamics must be observed, it's just not always obvious how.

He wrote some papers... In 9th Grade. And by peer review we do agree that the root word is pee, right?

As a hard scientist, I'm just going to say this once....


There oughta be a law

Euthanasia is not legal in the USA.

No not peer reviewed. Stuff written more of as a blog of sorts in the early nineties. The internet was much different at that time. I was able to find reference to myself on a forum for people interested in water powered cars. It was a kinda cool web site. Anyhow in another topic we on MV we were talking fuel ratios and such and it made me think back at this part of my life and project. I thought it may entertain others here. I'm typing on my cell phone so please forgive any spelling mistakes. I am not proof reading by any means. Weather or not its real science or not I get the feeling its just turning to personal attacks, and that to bad. I always hope when I speak with people about this that it will inspire them to go one step farther. But we can write it off as alchemy if you like.

Thank god this has come to an end.

This thread is a perpetual perplexing packaderm of pulverizing pompous motion.

Hey 318ti,

No personal attacks meant, and I am sorry if you feel it has come to that...but honestly, you think this could work? I have a feeling you are just putting us all on...Some sort of pre-xmas April Fool's...