Modern Vespa : Fuel injector cleaners & stabilizers. What do you use?

Fuel injector cleaners & stabilizers. What do you use?

Al Davis

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Location: Charlotte, N.C.

Al Davis

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Location: Charlotte, N.C.

UTC quote

tomjasz wrote:

breaknwind wrote:

Hello from Florida
I did my research on this subject. Fuel tanks are designed to breathe. Evap canisters control hydrocarbons not moisture. Ethanol acts like a solvent that can dissolve varnish from a fuel tank. Ethanol is alcohol, so if you are treating for ethanol, the treatment shouldn't contain alcohol. If you are treating to clean the system, then the treatment can contain alcohol. If it is corrosive it probably has alcohol in it. The best way to prevent water from entering the fuel system is to NOT let your vehicle sit long with an empty tank.
The reason water collects at the bottom of a fuel tank is ethanol absorbs water and phase separation. Star-Tron prevents phase separation. It doesn't absorb water!!!
I use non-ethanol gas in my SH, but my BV has 12 to 1 compression so I need 93 gas. The only non-ethanol gas I can find is 90. I use Star-Tron.
The solution is simple. Are you treating to clean the system or preventing phase separation?
Scoot on Y'all.

Did someone fart?

It's you, Tom. It's always you. Laughing emoticon

Bob Cowley

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GTS250, P200E

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Bob Cowley

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GTS250, P200E

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Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

UTC quote

From the West Marine Advisor

The following refers to fuel for marine engines, but applies to all engines.

MYTH: Ethanol-blended fuels are bad and should be avoided.

TRUTH: Ethanol blended fuels (E10) are common throughout much of the United States. After the transition period from non-ethanol fuel, E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel, as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system "dry". For over a decade, marine engines have been engineered to handle E10 gasoline. However, all types of fuels should be treated if they won't be used in a few weeks.

Nothing new here except that we don't have to buy gas line antifreeze any more. It takes 0.5% water in the ethanol before phase separation begins. Any percentage less than that gets absorbed with the fuel. For non-ethanol gas, there will be a layer of water on the bottom of the tank because none of the water gets absorbed by the fuel.

Cheers,
Bob

tomjasz

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tomjasz

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UTC quote

Who's truth

I use ethanol free because it performs better. I don't ride an Evinrude and I hate seeing, world food supply of, corn prices driven by inefficient fuel production. BTW it was boating groups that made the push for ethanol free to be available in many places. Boating for the working stiff means lots of old motors still used as daily runners. At least along the Mississippi and in the land of 10,000 lakes. Ethanol free access is still important to us and a better running scooter is a side benefit.

Mudnman UTC details Molto Verboso 07 LX50 Joined: UTC Posts: 1977
Mudnman Molto Verboso 07 LX50 Joined: UTC Posts: 1977	UTC quote I use 90 non ethanol $4.18 9/10 gallon.

breaknwind UTC details Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida
breaknwind Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida	UTC quote I'm siding with the fart alarmist. Ethanol is not good. So much for the KISS theory. Oh yea, I have a boat that has never tasted ethanol

Menhir

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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.

Menhir

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UTC quote

I've been using Sta-bil all these years because it was recommended by users on this site.

So now it's out of fashion. I guess I'm just not keeping up on current events. Razz emoticon

I never heard of Star-Tron before this thread.

I only used Sta-bil during the winter, and even then, only when I think there's a high probability that I might not be able to ride for a month or so. Like this winter. I always buy the smallest size available and mark it with the expiration date. Even then I've never used up a bottle completely. At least I don't seem to have had any issues due to it's use.

I'll usually add a bit of Seafoam when I fire things up in earnest in the Spring.
Since I already have it, I might as well use it in place of Stabil next winter.

Out of curiosity, what is the problem with Sta-bil, other than the fact that it will expire in the bottle?

breaknwind UTC details Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida
breaknwind Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida	UTC quote Ethanol, you need to use sta-bil marine to treat for ethanol. If you can, use non-ethanol gas. It's more expensive but it's worth it. The problem is that ethanol affects performance and bonds with water. But the biggest problem is that rubber don't like it . My 1999 astro cargo (kidnapper) van has metal fuel lines. My scoots and boat have rubber fuel lines.

breaknwind UTC details Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida
breaknwind Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida	UTC quote Just in case, http://pure-gas.org/.

fullthrottle

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Hooked

2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.

Joined: UTC
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

fullthrottle

Hooked

2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.

Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA

UTC quote

Menhir wrote:

Out of curiosity, what is the problem with Sta-bil, other than the fact that it will expire in the bottle?

The problem with ethanol, again, is that it's good at absorbing moisture, but the more it absorbs, the more it separates from the gas because water and gas don't mix. That makes the engine run poorly.

The goal of a fuel stabilizer is to bind to the water molecules and keep them in suspension in the gasoline with the ethanol, so that it all burns together.

Sta-bil doesn't do that. It's as good at absorbing water as the ethanol! But the ethanol/Stab-il/water won't mix with the gasoline.

I wish everyone here could see the display of little bottles I mentioned that my motorcycle dealer set up. Or, do the experiment yourself. Sta-bil was the worst.

K100 was the best. It blends 100% of the mixture.
Star-Tron was second best.

Menhir UTC details Moderator Joined: UTC Posts: 5145 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
Menhir Moderator Joined: UTC Posts: 5145 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.	UTC quote The use of ethanol-free gasoline is not an option for me. There's not an ethanol-free station anywhere near my home nor along my commute and, when I'm traveling, I rarely have the option to be choosy. ⚠️ Last edited by Menhir on UTC; edited 1 time

OP fullthrottle UTC details Hooked 2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200. Joined: UTC Posts: 112 Location: Philadelphia, PA
OP fullthrottle Hooked 2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200. Joined: UTC Posts: 112 Location: Philadelphia, PA	UTC quote No ethanol-free gas near me either. So, I use the Star-Tron in all my vehicles.

breaknwind UTC details Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida
breaknwind Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida	UTC quote Isn't Pa. where the customer can't pump their own gas? How does that work for scoots?

OP fullthrottle UTC details Hooked 2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200. Joined: UTC Posts: 112 Location: Philadelphia, PA
OP fullthrottle Hooked 2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200. Joined: UTC Posts: 112 Location: Philadelphia, PA	UTC quote breaknwind wrote: Isn't Pa. where the customer can't pump their own gas? How does that work for scoots? No, that's New Jersey.

breaknwind UTC details Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida
breaknwind Ossessionato Red Devil SH150i (11,000) Joined: UTC Posts: 3312 Location: Orange Park Florida	UTC quote O yea, It's been a long time. By the way, I've seen the water/gas demo on a boating show.

aschamberlain UTC details Member 2009 Vespa S 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 15 Location: Tampa, Fl.
aschamberlain Member 2009 Vespa S 150 Joined: UTC Posts: 15 Location: Tampa, Fl.	UTC quote Sea Foam in oil. Good thread. I use Sea Foam, my question is has anyone added seafoam to the oil and ran it for a bit before an oil change. It is said to really clean things up but I have only changed my own oil once and am afraid I would screw something up.

fullthrottle

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Hooked

2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.

Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA

fullthrottle

Hooked

2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.

Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA

UTC quote

Re: Sea Foam in oil.

aschamberlain wrote:

Good thread. I use Sea Foam, my question is has anyone added seafoam to the oil and ran it for a bit before an oil change. It is said to really clean things up but I have only changed my own oil once and am afraid I would screw something up.

I think if you change your oil and filter at recommended intervals, that should be enough. And use the best oil.

judy UTC details World Traveler 2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa Joined: UTC Posts: 29303
RIP judy World Traveler 2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa Joined: UTC Posts: 29303	UTC quote MUD i can't believe our ethanol free gas is cheaper than yours. $3.87 yesterday but our is 89 but still most things are way more expensive here.

Max6200

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2006 GTS 250

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Max6200

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Location: KS USA

UTC quote

Re: Sea Foam in oil.

fullthrottle wrote:

aschamberlain wrote:

I think if you change your oil and filter at recommended intervals, that should be enough. And use the best oil.

I have not tried it in with the oil but the bottle says that you can mix it with oil with the oil change.

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