Modern Vespa

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I hadn't thought about it for a while because I didn't want to mount lights on the leg shield but the bar end lights sound good. I'll dig it out, if I can find it an take a pic.

5 watts is the largest T5 wedge-base bulb I can find in 6 volts:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-5-Watt-Incandescent-T5-Exit-Light-Bulb-BP939/203512395

Here's a 6 volt, 20 watt miniature halogen bulb. But it's a G4 base ...

http://www.bulbtown.com/JC20_6V_20_WATT_6_VOLT_JC_HALOGEN_G4_BASE_p/jc5607.htm

... which means a base like this would have to be used in place of the one that comes with the bar end lights:

Maybe you wouldn't need the base. I think they are ceramic because the halogen bulbs create so much heat. Your indicator is only on intermittently of course, and not going to have a chance to melt anything... maybe you could use a small terminal block instead.

You have a battery in this? The other option maybe is use bare LEDs in a string instead that are in series to suit your voltage.

Yes, I was running full AC through a 12V regulator even though it was a 6V stator, but at idle the voltage/current would drop below what the flasher needed to cycle. I then added in a battery for the DC for the flasher and an accessory port to power a Garmin. The headlight, taillight and brake light remain AC. I am using an AC LED for the brake/tail light. The battery keeps the voltage at 12V when the engine is at idle allowing the flasher to function normally.

It looks like SIP might have updated their holder ditching the original festoon bulb. I got mine from Motorsport in San Diego, http://tinyurl.com/kxug3sj which was the "old style". You can try the 12V bulb with your 6 volt system. It might not be quite as bright but still might have enough current draw to operate the flasher. 6V flasher units aren't quite as common as the 12V ones, but still available online. As I recall that was one option that I tried. I wasn't able to find LEDs that would work in the bulb holder.

The bar end flashers do act as their own reminders since you can see them while riding

I think you're right that a ceramic bulb holder isn't necessary. This might work just as well:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/empty-bases-sockets/led-product/1152/

The point is, the bulb has to be in some kind of socket and the socket has to be attached to the inside of the bar end lens holder somehow. The guy in the facebook video was pretty clever in riveting on a bulb socket pirated from a cheap marker light. What kind of terminal block are you thinking of? Yes, have a 6v battery. LEDs might work, but again, the question is how to mount them inside the lens holder? I saw an article on how to build your own LED festoon bulbs. Holy crap, there has to be an easier solution!

matthew, we've thought about fitting one those battery-operated blinker LED lights that bicycle riders use, but couldn't find any that flashed like normal turn signals. And we couldn't figure out how to mount them in way that didn't involve drilling holes or look goofy. How are yours mounted?

Just something small. You can get these in different sizes.

I was thinking along these lines... you could arrange them so that they are all 'pointing' outwards as LEDs tend to be directional.

I like it. There's a German company that does something similar to what you're thinking. But man that's a ton of work. There has to be an easier way to get those bar end lights to work with a 6V system. Maybe not.

If you had a 12v system things would be much easier.

Soldering a few LEDs together, maybe a resistor? Easy stuff. Also you don't need a socket of any kind as you can bend the LEDs and place/distribute them around in the 'cage' bit.

So who is the German company? Got a link?

http://www.rollerladen.com/de/Elektrik/Blinker/Blinker-Nachruestset-fuer-alle-Modelle.html

Awesome engineering, but still not 6V. They use a 9V battery.

Haha, you're right. Putting it together probably wouldn't be that difficult. The hard part is figuring out what kind of LEDs to use, what resistor, how many, what relay to use, and how to wire everything up so it works as it should.

That's a nice little setup they have. Pity we can't see inside... The big question is how long does the battery last?

You have a point about the choice of components... I have no idea what is bright enough. However the maths and connection seem pretty straightforward - http://www.instructables.com/id/LEDs-for-Beginners/?ALLSTEPS

I left a 9 led flash light (3 AAA's ) on for 20 hours.It was still bright.Batteries tested on analog gauge,just hit the low mark.So there's a little life left.

Changing a 9 volt bat 1-2 times a year might not be bad.

why not get the original style HELLA assemblies that use a standard festoon bulb?

you can get pretty much any wattage and voltage combination your heart desires to fit those.

I've been looking and haven't been able to find a 6V 21W festoon anywhere.

Why would you want a 21w specifically?

18w are readily available and i doubt you'd notice the difference.

21W is what the wiring calls for, but if you don't think it makes a difference, sure. The other issue is how to attach them to the bar ends. Weren't the Hellas designed to be fixed in place by another set of tubes running thru the throttle and clutch tubes? Are all of those parts available as well? Or is there another way to fit the Hellas?

the typical installation is to mount them solid to the tubes as it is way easier and much more straightforward than trying to get them to not rotate with the shift and throttle tubes. you shoot for the average as far as alignment; the only thing to block the light is the two pieces of metal that hold the lens on and ground the outside end of the bulb. even if ti isn't aligned perfectly you can still lsee them and tell they are on because of the diffraction by the lenses.

all the pieces to mount them are available; i sold a full set to a customer a month or three ago.

if you are trying to match the existing flasher you'd need to load them to ~42w to get them to blink properly (front+rear). most people just run the bar ends and do not run separate rear signals so it'd just be easier to get a flasher to match the load, or get a solid state one that won't care.

Thanks Rob. As I understand it, when the Hellas are mounted not to rotate they use a bushing that's fixed to the tubes at the end of the bar with a grub screw. Does a hole need to be drilled and tapped in the tube for that set screw? And do the grips fit over the end of the bushing... or are special grips required too?

Have you seen this yet? not sure if you have but it shows some of what you're talking about!

Perfect, thanks Vader, that helps.

If the only downside to the Hellas is they require drilling a small hole that ultimately gets concealed by the grip, seems like a no-brainer. Much less of a hassle than trying to track down a bulb to fit the SIPs and all the mods getting it mounted with the springs, washers and pinch bolts.

Where can you buy those Rob?

says sip on the photo

Not a festoon however.

Hodge is right, the Hella unit makes more sense than the SIP unit on a 6V system.

6V 18W festoons seem to be readily available. Scooterwest carries them:

http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/6V-18W-%2844MM%29-Festoon-Bulb/7938

SIP has them in both clear and amber:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/festoon+bulb+handlebar_57710000

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/festoon+bulb+handlebar_57718000

They can be found online lots of other places too.

Aside from the bulb, the Hella and SIP units appear to be identical. So if you really like the springs mod, and you find some LEDs or other bulbs that work for you, you could modify it downstream like facebook guy did.

I have a damaged rally turn signal. Some kind of acid was spilled onto the cowl and turn signal. I think these were often removed or damaged. Do any of the other large frame or for that matter any other Vespas share the stalk rally 74-79 USA spec turn signals? Or is stupid to even think these can be found?

Ginch, The SIP ones are a 'modernization' of the original HELLA style, to use halogen bulbs. they even can use the same lenses interchangeably.

both are available. if anyone wants some let me know as our next order from my supplier (SIP) goes out first week of the year, most likely. you just pay basically SIP's price plus shipping from seattle.

i stock 15w festoon bulbs stateside, but not the 18w ones.

This wireless one looks interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Buztronics-Signal-Wireless-Rear-Turn/dp/B007BWR1MA

Yes they are shared with many models and Kyle in Dallas usually has some. Try here http://www.kylesscootershop.com/.

Rob, have any of your customers had any dimming or other quirky issues with the Hella system on their 6V scoots?

I'm glad the illustrated guide helped.. not sure this will, but...


SIP-TIP: In order to avoid a voltage drop in the case of models with 6V electrics, the battery pack can be optionally used for the power supply of the indicators.

I'm not sure if they mean the actual Battery, or some battery pack accessory!

Just have a gander here too.. maybe some nugget will help. ?

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/files/catalogue/index.html#/835

Yes, saw it. That's what prompted my question to Rob about dimming and other issues.

well, it really matters what 6v system you're running. battery or non-battery? stock or a cobbled together aftermarket?

honestly, turn signals can be made to work on pretty much every system, it's just that the approach needs to be a little different, depending on the system.

for example, on AC bikes, it's best to run separate front and rear signals, and alternate flashing between front and rear, as this balances the load so that the rest of the lights do not noticeable dim. on battery bikes, you can do the simpler method of just running front and rear in unison as the battery typically has enough capacity to handle the extra load.

when they talk about the 'battery pack' it's just a bit of engrish. they mean that you can run turn signals off of the battery.

On a DC system you won't suffer any dimming problems, unless of course your battery goes flat.
The Sip tip is probably relevant to non batt bikes.

Yes I see that now, thanks.

Haaa.. Copy that... I figured as much... if you read through that catalog enough there some down right funny "translations"!

Well, we got a set of the Hella bar end signals and put them on yesterday. Check it out.

Installation was pretty straightforward. The signals don't come wired, but that isn't a big deal. It's a nice design, with miniscule little clamps and springs included to hold the festoon-type bulbs in place. Easy to wire up. All the parts fit together well.

We debated different mounting options, but in the end went with a single self-tapping machine screw through each tube into the base of each signal. The screw gets hidden when the grip is rolled back into place. If we were obsessive about this, we might have used set screws instead of machine screws to avoid the barely noticeable little bump under the grip from the head of the screw. Maybe we'll replace them downstream.

Other than that, no issues. Flash works great, very visible at night. Cool little project!

Nicely done.. They look good.. I'm glad to hear it wasn't the headache I've heard they are to mount.. and yeah.. MADE IN CHINA not surprised.
... but great job man!

Looking good SoCalGuy(s).

Thanks vader, Ginch. Always a good time working on the scoot!