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Sorry, that was a typo. Of course I want two L's in my chilli! I wouldn't settle for anything less in a GT200L.

And, as everyone knows homemade chilli with two L's is hotter and tastes better, too.
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Motovista wrote:
And thousands, if not millions, of people all over the world use them just fine.
Our wet-finger-in-the-wind sampling among MV members (which is to say, anecdotal but lots of it) has suggested over the last eight years that the Malossi belt is shit. Their claim of it being kevlar-reinforced is further suspect, since the stock belt is also reinforced with kevlar (or some other aramid). Ultimately, it's up to you to do to your bike as you wish, but it sucks when the rear wheel locks up at speed (which is what belts usually do when they snap).

For god sake, man! Think of your underwear!
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Thank god my rear wheel didn't lock up when the OEM belt self destructed. It didn't snap. It totally disintegrated with no warning as I was flying down the highway.

There was nothing left but balls of fiber fluff coming out of the vent, and more when I opened it up. Only tiny bits of rubber mixed in, to say there used to be a belt in there.

So, if we're going by anecdotal evidence... oh never mind.
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fullthrottle wrote:
Thank god my rear wheel didn't lock up when the OEM belt self destructed. It didn't snap. It totally disintegrated with no warning as I was flying down the highway.
That's the preferable version, and one which is probably more likely on an aged belt. When the belt breaks early in their life cycle, they tend to snap and not disintegrate, in which case they wrap themselves around the clutch (which remains engaged for a few seconds) and you skid uncontrollably.
fullthrottle wrote:
So, if we're going by anecdotal evidence... oh never mind.
I dare say I've absorbed enough anecdotal evidence on the subject to speak with some authority. I offer it to those who are willing to accept it and not resist All Knowledge That Didn't Come From Their Own Mouth. If you don't want to accept it, don't. But don't be surprised if nobody will engage you in a serious discussion in the future.
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Motovista wrote:
Midnight Rider wrote:
fullthrottle wrote:
For those who care to know, I replaced the original belt which had shredded up with a Malossi Kevlar belt.
I would reconsider that move. It has happened to more than one member on MV that they got no where close to the miles out of a Mallossi belt compared to the OEM belt.

YMMV, please report back!
And thousands, if not millions, of people all over the world use them just fine. I just put the Malossi XK belt in my GT200 and changed out the Variator. The discontinued Malossi belt for the GT200, which is what's mostly out there, and what I put in my GT200, is about two millimeters thinner and a half inch longer than the OEM belt. Bike seems to like it. I'm not sure how much of the increase in performance is from it or the new Variator (my impatience overcame my desire to save a buck, SF), and I'm not excited about going back in and investigating further until the weather warms up.
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people replace broken belts with what they think is the strongest belt they can find, are doing it for the first time or having it done by someone other than a Vespa dealer, and don't have anything to compare it to when they throw it in, and then when they do inspect it, they find that it is narrower than stock, so they assume it wore prematurely, but it started out thinner than the stock belt. If the belt is installed right, and the rest of the things in the variator and clutch that need to be taken care of are serviced, you will usually get performance out of any quality belt, be it Malossi, Dayco, or Piaggio, that lasts beyond the manufacturer recommended change interval..
You are really winning the prize for worst advice on MV. Keep it coming bro. We have a poll going.
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I'm just sharing my own experience, and that's all I can expect from others. Excluding the sarcasm and the put downs. That's not really helpful. How old are you little tyrant?
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fullthrottle wrote:
I'm just sharing my own experience, and that's all I can expect from others. Excluding the sarcasm. That's not really helpful.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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But thanks for the warning about the belt snap syndrome, anyway.
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fullthrottle wrote:
I'm just sharing my own experience, and that's all I can expect from others. Excluding the sarcasm and the put downs. That's not really helpful. How old are you little tyrant?
Unlike your crack about how old I am (please. Be real) there was no put-down there. Just indicating that you show signs of resisting all knowledge that didn't originate in your own head, and that people are having a hard time trying to reason with you. I've seen this story enough times to know how it ends.
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Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
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jess wrote:
Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
So is a single brain. It's not as if no one else shares my opinions, but just as many self proclaimed experts gang up on them, too.

Whatever. This is boring me.

As for the initial post about Densos. Try them. Don't try them. Who cares? Do whatever your super intellect dictates.
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fullthrottle wrote:
jess wrote:
Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
So is a single brain. It's not as if no one else shares my opinions, but just as many self proclaimed experts gang up on them, too.
I was referring to the belt.
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jess wrote:
fullthrottle wrote:
jess wrote:
Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
So is a single brain. It's not as if no one else shares my opinions, but just as many self proclaimed experts gang up on them, too.
I was referring to the belt.
I'm new to this belt stuff, my wife's '07 MP3 250 still has the original belt. We bought it with 900 miles on it in Feb '13 and now have 8200 miles, do we go by the mileage or do years of service come into play?

ROD
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I don't doubt that belts have snapped, and that's definitely something to watch out for. I will probably open up the housing and check it for cracks once a year, as I should have done.

I'm not an expert mechanic, but I can figure things out on my own pretty well, with a shop manual or by watching some YouTube videos.

But, I do have an open mind, opinions to the contrary. I've started installing iridium plugs one at a time in three scooters now. At first, I was just doing it for their reputed durability. I really didn't expect a performance gain, but that's what I got, especially in the PX.

I started with the NGK iridium in the Granturismo, and then I found out about the Densos on a Maserati forum. Believe me, they are a very finicky bunch of people when it comes to performance mods. Every single one who's done it raves about them. The next time I change plugs in my Coupe it will be Densos.

FWIW. Isn't it just possible that there have been improvements to something as pedestrian as the lowly spark plug? Is it worth at least a $7.50 experiment? I think so.
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rrounds wrote:
jess wrote:
fullthrottle wrote:
jess wrote:
Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
So is a single brain. It's not as if no one else shares my opinions, but just as many self proclaimed experts gang up on them, too.
I was referring to the belt.
I'm new to this belt stuff, my wife's '07 MP3 250 still has the original belt. We bought it with 900 miles on it in Feb '13 and now have 8200 miles, do we go by the mileage or do years of service come into play?

ROD
You know, ROD, I was wondering that, too. I'm guessing here, but it may have something to do with how you ride as much as total mileage. I like to accelerate hard, and as my name implies, go full speed whenever I can.

And, I'm being serious here, the weight of the rider or riders may play a big factor.

The best thing to do I suppose is to inspect the condition of the belt visually from time to time.
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fullthrottle wrote:
I don't doubt that belts have snapped, and that's definitely something to watch out for. I will probably open up the housing and check it for cracks once a year, as I should have done.

I'm not an expert mechanic, but I can figure things out on my own pretty well, with a shop manual or by watching some YouTube videos.

But, I do have an open mind, opinions to the contrary. I've started installing iridium plugs one at a time in three scooters now. At first, I was just doing it for their reputed durability. I really didn't expect a performance gain, but that's what I got, especially in the PX.

I started with the NGK iridium in the Granturismo, and then I found out about the Densos on a Maserati forum. Believe me, they are a very finicky bunch of people when it comes to performance mods. Every single one who's done it raves about them. The next time I change plugs in my Coupe it will be Densos.

FWIW. Isn't it just possible that there have been improvements to something as pedestrian as the lowly spark plug? Is it worth at least a $7.50 experiment? I think so.
Check for cracks in your belt? LOL cute. I do have iridium plugs though. They seem to spark well...or something. Scoot runs.
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Yeah. Cracks between the teeth in your belt! ROFL emoticon
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fullthrottle wrote:
The best thing to do I suppose is to inspect the condition of the belt visually from time to time.
Consensus opinion is that visual inspection is largely worthless. On the upside, you might spot a crack, in which case you should replace it. However, a visually perfect belt can also snap, and this is largely a function of mileage and (more importantly) the amount of miles spent with the belt under fully-warm conditions. Thus, doing a lot of extended WFO riding (i.e. each trip is more than an hour) will cut your belt life drastically. Short trips around town might give you a belt that lasts much longer than the factory service interval. Cannonball will cut a belt life (and a tire life) roughly in half, as measured by miles.

The best approach is to go by miles, with your own personal guesstimate of how much of that is hard riding.

(The underlying issue is the rubber -- a rubber part like a tire or belt sheds more of itself when hot than when cold).
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rrounds wrote:
jess wrote:
fullthrottle wrote:
jess wrote:
Also, it's worth pointing out that a single data point is meaningless.
So is a single brain. It's not as if no one else shares my opinions, but just as many self proclaimed experts gang up on them, too.
I was referring to the belt.
I'm new to this belt stuff, my wife's '07 MP3 250 still has the original belt. We bought it with 900 miles on it in Feb '13 and now have 8200 miles, do we go by the mileage or do years of service come into play?
Age is also a good reason to change a belt, and this is really the exception to the visual inspection rule. Inspect it, and if it looks cracked, definitely replace it. But barring excessive age, you should go by mileage, regardless of how good the belt looks.
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Noted. As an adrenaline junkie, I do go through tires pretty fast.
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fullthrottle wrote:
Noted. As an adrenaline junkie, I do go through tires pretty fast.
Cute. Uh what?
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I'm not being cute. We've moved off the spark plug debate and were discussing how rubber parts like the belt and tires wear from friction and heat. I've only been through one belt so far on the GT, but also both front and rear tires well before that. And many other tires on my other motorbikes. My riding habits probably contribute to having to change them more often than a casual rider. That's all.
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Still cute.
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If you say so.
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I do. Cray cray adorbs even.
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Get a room, you two.
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Now we know why (s)he's sticky.
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Well I'll say most is hard to very hard riding with a rider that weighs around 180(I don't ask my wife how much she weighs) and we ride in the mountains with grades of up to 26%. Most of our rides are over 100 miles with a lot of WOT going up hill. She does get the clutch shudder when taking off from time to time, I clean the clutch with brake cleaner and it goes away for 100 or more miles. I will get a new belt for the wife's scoot and see if I need to work on the variator/rollers to replace the stock ones.

Thank's for the insight on the belt and how they wear,
ROD
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I was getting more shuddering on take off with the GT200 than I should, up to when the belt failed.

I was told by the mechanic at the Vespa dealer that it's a good idea to replace the rollers at the same time as the belt. They do wear, and you're already in there. At least clean them and the variator parts.

I've only ever tried the stock rollers with the stock belt, and now the Dr. Pulley sliders I mentioned before with the Malossi belt. So far, the machine runs better than ever. Because of their unique wedge shape, with several flat sides, it feels like the scooter has different power bands, instead of one continuous curve with the stock round rollers.

It's subtle, but it feels like it's smoothly shifting "gears". When it gets to the top speed, I bury the needle past 90 mph on the speedometer.

I forget where I bought them, but they look like this:
http://www.scooterworks.com/dr--pulley-sliding-weights--15x12----products-1369.php#.UsZViSgnHvw

I used the 10 gram weights. And, they have to go in a certain way. You can get different weight sliders or rollers, depending on what you want the scooter to do. I went for more top end speed, but my scooter definitely has somewhat more power at all speeds than with the stock parts.

Everything on the scooter is stock except the sliders, the belt, the NGK Iridium plug, and the new Pirelli tires. All relatively inexpensive, necessary, and wearable parts. In the spring I'll drop in the Shorai LFX battery.

I'm not going overboard with mods on any of my bikes, cars or scooters. I think that's a total waste of money and asking for trouble. Where the design is good, I leave it alone.
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ma_ttcald wrote:
I find this topic to be very entertaining. I wanna see actual proof those plugs do what they claim or I'm calling shenanigans
i called it first but who cares Clown emoticon
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fullthrottle wrote:
Doesn't the PX150 have a wet clutch? I know my GT200 does not. Oh well. Live and learn.

I have three scooters and three motorcycles to consider, so I buy high quality motor oil specific for motorcycles. I'm not cutting corners when it's only a few bucks.
Little technical clarification

The PX150 (and GT200) specifies gear oil for the gear box and related components. It is formulated specifically for gear train applications.

Unless it is specifically specified as a "gear oil", "Motorcycle oil" typically refers to an engine oil that lubes both the engine and transmission components from common sump system. It is primarily an engine oil with additives that ensure that a wet clutch can achieve enough friction to operate properly. Effectively, the level of friction modifiers in a JASO M_ rated motorcycle oil is less than in "standard" motor oil. (Thus, the ratings.)

Using "Motorcycle oil" in the PX (or GT200) gear box is about the worst possible choice, as it lacks a proper additive package for gear box needs, and contains detergents, which were specifically excluded from the use recommendations in the years before gear oil was common enough to be used in a shifty Vespa gear box.

For further reading: Gear Oil for Shifty Vespas
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Thanks Aviator. I've known and applied all that since I've owned scooters and motorcycles for many years. You're right that I should have just said "oil" instead of "motor oil".

But, I've used both non-detergent SAE30 motor oil as well as true gear oil in my Stella and PX. I use only 4T motorcycle oil in my motorcycles, and even though it's not absolutely necessary, in the Granturismo motor.

You missed my disclaimer that I was being sarcastic, in response to the rest of the gang here. It's really not my style, and I'm disappointed, frankly that's the reaction I'm getting to a simple post about better spark plugs.

I read the wiki you posted the link to, and I have to question the strong recommendation against using API GL-5 in "shifties".

I was using a Motul 75w-90 synthetic gear oil in the PX, which is GL-4 and GL-5 rated. But, I recently bought a quart of Valvoline Synthetic 75w-90, which I was going to use for the Granturismo's rear hub, as well as the PX motor. It's rated only GL-5 and says it's anti-corrosion, but the wiki says GL-5 is corrosive! It also says it's limited slip.

Now, it's my turn to be the doubting Thomas. You think I should return the unopened bottle of GL-5 and search for a GL-4 only oil that I can use for both? How critical can it be?

I think I know what the answer is, but maybe other's need to hear it as well.
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To be precise, the wiki article states:
Quote:
GL-5 gear oil is discouraged as it usually has additives that are mildly corrosive to non-ferrous metals, and no testing has been done to determine if the corrosive level is acceptable for non-ferrous metals.
Which falls short of a "strong recommendation" as you describe it.

A specific GL-5 rated motor oil may be safe for copper components, but unless it has been tested to ASTM D-130 (and thus rated GL-4/GL-5), you have no way of knowing. All gear oils contain anti corrosion additives, but all metals are not equally subject to the same corrosive agents. GL-4 pertains specifically to corrosion of copper containing components by the oil formulation, and is primarily concerned with insuring the absence of common corrosive additives that affect copper, which are mostly certain extreme pressure additives used to meet GL-5 specs.

As to whether or not you should return the GL-5, that's your call. There is no way to know if it meets ASTM D-130, so there is no way to know what corrosive effect it will have on copper components of your gear train. With a GL-4 or GL-4/GL-5, you have the certainty that ASTM D-130 copper corrosion limits have been met. With a statement that the GL-5 is "anti corrosive", you have no definitive idea of what corrosion is addressed, and one who "doubts" would probably doubt if that "anti-corrosive" statement sufficiently addressed the particular metal in question.

As to sarcasm, while the dictionary is far from the final authority, people often say "sarcasm" when they mean other expressions, such as "irony", "tongue in cheek", "satiric" or the like.

Sarcasm is generally defined as being said with an intent to injure or in an ad hominem manner, which I am sure you are not claiming to have intended.
Quote:
Sarcasm:
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain

2 : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
I'm sure that Jess will add that language is "dynamic", and thus all dictionary definitions are purely subjective and transient.
⚠️ Last edited by Aviator47 on UTC; edited 3 times
@mpfrank avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2020 MP3 500 HPE Sport ABS/ASR
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@mpfrank avatar
2020 MP3 500 HPE Sport ABS/ASR
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UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
tomjasz wrote:
I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone out with polishable shoes, unpolished. You mean everyone didn't have a Polish grandmother, a drill instructor, and a complete kit of badger brushes, brown, black and neutral? WOW! Heathens and harpies! No wonder I have to buy stuff on Amazon!
^^^^ me too! And good luck finding a shoe repair shop. This thread just made me feel really old. Laughing emoticon
Yeah, me, too. It's one thing I get a bit obsessive about - cleaning, treating, and polishing my (and my wife's) shoes. I have also found several good shoe repair shops. It's a great feeling to take a comfortable, well-broken-in, and still good-looking pair of shoes in for new soles and heels. It's like getting a brand-new pair that is already your favorite.
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
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@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
mpfrank wrote:
caschnd1 wrote:
tomjasz wrote:
I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone out with polishable shoes, unpolished. You mean everyone didn't have a Polish grandmother, a drill instructor, and a complete kit of badger brushes, brown, black and neutral? WOW! Heathens and harpies! No wonder I have to buy stuff on Amazon!
^^^^ me too! And good luck finding a shoe repair shop. This thread just made me feel really old. Laughing emoticon
Yeah, me, too. It's one thing I get a bit obsessive about - cleaning, treating, and polishing my (and my wife's) shoes. I have also found several good shoe repair shops. It's a great feeling to take a comfortable, well-broken-in, and still good-looking pair of shoes in for new soles and heels. It's like getting a brand-new pair that is already your favorite.
Two of the every day items of life that 35 years of military service (which I fully enjoyed) left me with no desire to continue to do:

Polish footwear
Wear a hat

(not an all inclusive list)
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
UTC quote
fullthrottle wrote:
Now we know why (s)he's sticky.
He and you have no idea.
@joedevola avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2009 Vespa LX150ie, 2007 GTS250ie, 1982 Honda CB900F, 1989 BMW K100RS
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Molto Verboso
@joedevola avatar
2009 Vespa LX150ie, 2007 GTS250ie, 1982 Honda CB900F, 1989 BMW K100RS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1075
Location: Sydney Australia
UTC quote
Personally, I want to hear a little more about the mod replacing the rollers with those Dr things. Never heard of those things before, sounds pretty interesting...
OP
@fullthrottle avatar
UTC

Hooked
2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.
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Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA
 
Hooked
@fullthrottle avatar
2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA
UTC quote
Aviator: Thanks for clarifying all that. You are the voice of reason.
OP
@fullthrottle avatar
UTC

Hooked
2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA
 
Hooked
@fullthrottle avatar
2008 Vespa Granturismo 200L. 2005 Piaggio BV200.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Philadelphia, PA
UTC quote
joedevola wrote:
Personally, I want to hear a little more about the mod replacing the rollers with those Dr things. Never heard of those things before, sounds pretty interesting...
The scooterworks.com link explains it better than I did.
http://www.scooterworks.com/dr--pulley-sliding-weights--15x12----products-1369.php#.UsbMkignHvx

Here's another illustration. (Follow the link and then scroll down).
http://www.unionmaterial.com/rollerweight6.htm

I've changed nothing on the scooter except the few parts I've said, and done the basic maintenance services. And, I can go over 90 mph, on a GT200 with no engine, exhaust, or carburetor mods.

People have called me on my subjective feelings of performance gains, but the speedometer doesn't lie. If I want to go faster than that, I'm on my motorcycle.

If you want to try the Dr. Pulley sliders, just make sure you get the right size for your particular scooter, then choose the weight you want based on what performance you're trying to achieve. Like I said, I used a heavier 10 gram weight which adds more top speed.

They didn't come with great installation instructions. But, I discovered by flipping them around, that there's really only one way they fit in the variator the way they should, and it worked. I also cleaned the variator parts really well, and replaced those 3 little plastic guides which were slightly loose. Later, I found some YouTube videos which also show the correct way.

I weighed the stock rollers I took out, which I believe were 9.5 grams new, and they had worn down to about 9.4 each. Not a big change, but that must also mean it's circumference is wearing down, and you're gradually going to lose a bit more top speed. From the photo, it appears that doesn't happen with Dr. Pulley. And, they're made of superior material.
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