Modern Vespa

So the wife and I just got back from a glorious 10 day vacation in Carmel Valley, CA. To say I am jealous of you California riders would be an understatement. I'd be riding Highway 1 everyday out to Big Sur if I could.

Nevertheless, I wanted to find out if I am just being grumpy. This vacation was our baby moon and we had some credits from previous cancelled flights, so we bought first class airline tickets.

On our return flight, we get into the first class cabin and there are THREE infants in the cabin. WTF? Of course, all three cried the entire four hour flight and we had to listen to the parents goo goo gah gah to their little snowflake as well.

Not to begrudge parents traveling with children, but my opinion is that infants/small toddlers should not be allowed in first class because it is disrespectful to the other passengers who are paying a significant premium for a first class experience. If I wanted to risk having a crying baby near me, I would have bought coach tickets. I feel like the airline owes us a refund.

Is it being unreasonable to think that airlines would not allow infants in first class?

Yes, it's entirely unreasonable.

Granted, baby's should be quiet in first class and only scream in coach, but nevertheless, babies are not banned in F class on any US carrier.

Let's be honest, a US domestic first class cabin is nothing special, unless an international-configured aircraft is being used. Usually 2-2 seating, maybe a hot meal, depending on sector length. I've flown plenty of flights in First Class in the US where you get nothing more than a drinks service.

Use the logic that we were all babies at some stage, if our parents can afford First Class, good for them. I do appreciate that it's not always the most serene experience sat near screaming babies, but you are in no way entitled to a refund. Your ticket was a contract for transportation from A to B. Even the first class seat isn't guaranteed, let alone the lack of babies.

Yes.

Well, you must have Glasseye's pneumonia and are delusional if you think there is any "first class" airline service in the USA anymore. Us "old" people remember first class and let me tell you it does not exist any more. All you get now is a wider seat and a higher ticket price. Better to save the money and ride in "economy". You not only save money, you will have no expectations of great service and therefore no disappointment like you will have riding in "first class". Airline policy used to prohibit babies in "first class", but evidently not anymore.

Totally reasonable and you have my sympathies.

I honestly believe that if you're going to pay a premium you should get a quiet cabin minus anyone's annoying infants.

There's nothing worse than an unhappy child crying and whining in the seat next to you when there's no escape.

Why don't the airlines start family only flights ?

Edit - Lets face it children, especially small children hate air travel. If they're not balling their eyes out while their parents try to distract them they are kicking the back of your seat.

Bill X

Yes, unreasonable.

If you don't want a kid of any age next to you while flying first class book a flight with an airline that banns kids in first class.

Until you do that you have my sympathies but nothing more...

Yes. Completely unreasonable. It's a ticket and the purchaser is entitled to use it anyway one wants. In fact, think about it this way. What about people who snore or wear too much perfume or talk loud or are annoying in a thousand other ways?

You will be wanting those 3 crying babies back in trade once the airlines start allowing cellphone calls.


Seems there is an airline in Singapore (Scoot Airlines...no I'm not kidding) that for a small additional charge allows you to sit in an adults only section that also has a bit more leg room. Would you pay for it?

Would you pay extra for adult only flights? Seems that there are a couple of polls that suggest many people would. Guess it would depend on how much extra.

Hey, rich folks breed too, you know?




But to be honest, I understand your disappointment in your flight.

I's start up my own airline just so I don't have to sit next to those people.

This is why no matter how good or cheap public transport gets people will still buy cars just so they can be in control of their own environment.

Bill x

You can afford first class but not those fancy baby cry cancelling headphones?

Bingo! Buy an airplane. Then you DO get to decide who else can ride in it.

i think the only thing more distressing than sitting next to a screaming baby on an aircraft is being the parent who is trying frantically to calm said baby down. as annoying as the sound of a crying baby is, it must be absolutely mortifying to be the source (or at least the secondary source) of a major noise nuisance in a confined space. i was on one flight where the dad made a point of personally apologising to everyone within a four-seat radius for the racket that his iron-lunged sprog was making.

far worse, in my opinion, are parents who let their children run amok on trains

Thread winner.

You have my sympathy, but nothing to be done about babies. Older children (and adults) are in control of their own behavior. Babies not so much. Just bad luck this time, I am afraid.

For your next flight, may I suggest these earplugs?

http://www.amazon.com/Hearos-Plugs-Xtreme-Protection-14-Pair/dp/B001EPQ86A/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1388434307&sr=1-2




My upstairs neighbors are very noisy, and used to wake me from a sound sleep with their clomping around (and I sleep like the dead). I tried several brands, and these are the best. So good, I can't hear my alarm in the morning, so I have to set my Jawbone UP bracelet to wake me with a vibrate alarm.

I used them on a flight from San Fran a few months ago. Was traveling with a friend who had lesser earplugs. She was tortured the whole flight by the obnoxious woman and toddler behind her, eventually getting into an argument with her about the incessant shrieking (from the woman AND toddler). Played out like a silent movie for me. Couldn't hear a damn thing.

There are two important predicate questions:

1. Did you ever fly with very young children of your own? and

2. Where they silent the entire trip?

If the answer to question #1 is "no" (and therefore also "no" for #2) you don't understand flying with very young children.

If the answer to question #1 is "yes" and the answer to question #2 is "no" (and you are honest) you are very, very fortunate indeed.

If the answer is "yes" for #1 and "no" for #2 then join the rest of us who have flown with very young children.

The fact is that cabin pressure fluctuates and the little ones' ears are quite sensitive to pressure differences; the noise which is bothersome to us is also tough on very young ears; and finally, flying generally sucks whether your in first class or not.

For the largest portion of my career I did a great deal of flying. Although I was headquartered in Texas my major client organizations were on the East and West Coast. I was Platinum, Gold or whatever in every major miles program and flew First Class most of the time. If a baby was crying and the mother looked anxious I would smile and remind her in a loud enough voice that everyone of our kids had done the same thing - that is what they do.

Take a nice long ride on that great bike of yours and the memories of this
trauma will dissipate.

Been there. When our oldest was one year old, we had been living in France and were returning home. She did great all the way from Lyon to Dallas, where we had to change planes. The airline was booked full and we got bumped into first class, where our 1 year old fussed nearly all the way to L.A. I know it was miserable for the passengers, but we were stressed to the limit because we were the cause of everyone else's discomfort.

I've looked at kids on airplanes in a different light since then.

You don't have to be very bright to know that small children really don't like the noise,confined space and changing air pressure that air travellers experience and yet pretty much each plane I've been on has been regularly peppered with embarrassed and apologetic parents who have struggled with their kids during the flight.
They know how it's going to go because they've witnessed it before they had children.
The sound of an unhappy sprog is a sound that we are all unable to ignore so why not wait a few years until you decide to take your minions with you ?

Bah !

Bill X

Yes, I think you are unreasonable. What did you expect this forum to do about it? Do you really think airlines will consider banning children from flights? It's not like kids are an unknown irritant on airplanes. Even the Scoot Airlines mentioned before just gives you a little more distance, the screaming kids are still going to be there.

I bring a double handful of soft foam earplugs in a ziplock bag when I travel and use them at the first hint of annoyance. I also always offer them to people seated next to me, especially if there is a small child within hearing distance. Cheap and effective. The only thing they don't cure is the 8 year old behind you kicking the seat. For that I glare meaningfully over the back of the seat at the parent (or surrogate). Works great with the occasional rare exception.

Thanks for the replies, even if we disagree. I figured it would be split down the middle.

I used to put 100k miles annually on various airlines in a previous life, so not a stranger to air travel by any means.

My issue is expectations. When I fly coach (which I do most often these days), I expect crying babies, etc. It doesn't bother me. You have a discount fair, so you expect a discount experience. I just grin and bear it. Crying babies really don't bother me in that context.

However, when I am paying a premium or upgraded to sit in first class, the expectations are different. You don't expect to have to put up with a crying infants.

We all know infants cry and the ear popping can be a source of pain for them. However, that is precisely why they shouldn't be in first class imho. The parents can't control when and if they will cry and it isn't fair to those who have paid extra to avoid that situation.

My wife is pregnant which is one of the main reasons we bought first class tickets too. We even debated if we would even purchase a first class ticket with our child out of respect to others. We wouldn't just like we wouldn't go to a fancy restaurant with a newborn.

I can't wait till they allow cell phones. I predict it won't end well.

Capital idea! just turn sproggy out to graze on the lawn while you jet off to sip cocktails in Benidorm

Yeah, can you say "worst idea in the history of the world?"

I'm sure you're a smart man and can figure this 1 out on Your own. next time show that you're not happy by getting off the plane mid flight, that would really send the airline a message.

I don't even understand where the demand for this is coming from? I have yet to meet a single person that wants this even frequent business travelers. If making a call is so important it can't wait a couple of hours, the flier should have no problem paying the skyphone charges of $3.00/minute or whatever it cost these days.

I love having wifi available, but allowing cellphones is just boneheaded.

Crybaby.

8)

I'd rather hear screaming kids.

In addition to adult only flights we will need banned cellphone call flights.

if they enable cell phone calling on aircraft they'll need bouncers instead of air hostesses. there's only one time in my entire life when I've earwigged somebody's cell phone conversation willingly and with interest. the rest of the time i just want to smack them I can't imagine sitting next to somebody shouting their banality over the sound of the engines

and what about sleepy time on long haul flights? will they ban cell phones during this period? somebody hasn't thought this through. we'll look back with fondness to the days when babies were the only nuisance.

So its not ok for babies to cry in first class but it is acceptable for them to cry in economy? If I have read this right, you sir are an unbearable snob, if I have read it wrongly, I offer up my humble apologies for any offence I may have caused.
Earplugs seem to be the best way to get the peace and quiet you crave.
PM me and I will send you a set.

I'm wondering if the family in question got upgraded so they could all sit together ?
As Genie and I left for Newark many families on the plane were separated because of the balls up way United arranged the seating allocation.

Bill x

This is exactly why we waited until our youngest son was about 3 years old before putting him on a plane. We could tell him about the pressure changes while flying. Lots of snacks and water bottles made the flight easier for everyone.

My wife and I have shared many a flight in our younger days with screaming babies and it was horrible. We decided when we had kids they would not be screamers on an airplane. Our kids have been traveling with us for ten years (they are a bit older now), countless miles and we get compliments every time about our kids good behavior on flights.

Strick = The voice of reason.

If only the World had more people like you in it.

Bill X

It was a full flight. Three seperate families though, so it could have been some rearranging of seating as I know they were asking for volunteers because the flight was over booked.

United, along with other US carriers permits seat assignments up to 330 days in advance. Customers often don't bother to do that, thinking either "the airline will sort it out" or "I'll do it on the day".

If customers take some responsibility and management of their own travel needs, they'll find that they can get their seats together, in the majority of cases. As airline staff, we try hard to seat families together. Unfortunately, seat assignments are not guaranteed and on family-heavy flights, sometimes it's just not possible, but we do try.

One thing we don't do is upgrade families to seat them together. We'd rather upgrade high-yield and high-tier frequent flyers, than families on cheap tickets. US carriers like to reward loyalty to their most frequent customers.

Bottom line - when your buy a ticket, your contract with the air carrier is only for them to provide transportation from A to B. It doesn't guarantee a seat, or a meal, or a baby-free cabin; won't guarantee that you won't get a snorer or a talking bore, a flirtatious drunk or any other number of undesirables seated next to you. It doesn't even guarantee a non-stop flight, or even that you'll actually travel by air.

I think we have an expert in the house

Who do you work for David ?

Birreh !

We have a trip planned when our child will be about four/five months old. We've already decided we are going to drive instead of fly even though it is going to add a day's travel on both ends of the trip. We just don't want to deal with the hassles of traveling with a young child or turning into the parents I'm complaining about now.

No one is debating whether there is a need for infants to fly, I just don't think they should be in first class.

we tried but United wouldn't let us reserve seats or even check in in advance. Apparently, as travellers transiting through the U.S. on non-American passports, we were suspicious enough to warrant our having to do everything on the day, at the check-in desk.

You know!

If I knew I wouldn't be asking.

Hey Ho.

A percentage of seats are held back for airport use only.

You can check-in with a non-US passport via the airline website, it generally gives you a piece of paper that states "this is not a boarding pass" on it, if you've not traveled with the relevant airlines with 6 months. This is because of strict US immigration rules. Once the agent has verified your documents at the airport, then next time you check-in online within 6 months, you should be fine.