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I miss living in New England and the East Coast train network...
Here, On the West Coast the schedule sucks and the cost is sky high...
I would love to put my Scooter on the train to Seattle or Vancouver from the SF Bay area. But there is no Auto Train on this side of the country. I think it's because Union Pacific monopolizes the tracks here...
Not only does Amtrak own nearly no track, they don't get even the same times on them every day. So a train might be scheduled for a time, but be bumped for hours to wait for a cargo train that never runs past.


Grrrr!



Mark
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UTC quote
Speaking from the Seattle/Vancouver area, I'd love to be able to load my scoot on the train every January for points south.
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UTC quote
It could also be a cost thing at least in part. The AT here that runs between Sanford, FL and DC lost something over 30 million dollars in 2013. Or something close to that.
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UTC quote
"The Curse of California" appeared in San Francisco's The Wasp on August 19, 1882. The illustration portrays the powerful Southern Pacific Railroad monopoly as an octopus, with the State's various financial interests wrapped within its many tentacles.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
I share the frustration. I have taken the Coast Starlight from Seattle to LA a few times and would love to be able to stash a scooter on board and get off somewhere like Santa Cruz and ride around. Even if the Amtrak had priority it would save hours - so much time is spent creeping along waiting for freight to go past. I am hoping the high speed rail project between SF and LA will at least make that part a bit quicker.
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UTC quote
I agree that an auto (motorcycle/scooter) train on the West Coast would be nice. I also agree that the Union Pacific Railroad does everything it can to disrupt passenger rail service. This is particularly annoying on the Coast Starlight run between Eugene and Redding. The Amtrak Cascade service between Portland and Seattle (with connections on to Vancouver) is excellent and I ride it quite often. They will take your bicycle but not your scooter.
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Most if not all passenger lines lose money and rely on government subsidies to survive. Makes little sense to add more losers. If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Union Pacific is paid trackage fees for passenger trains using its routes. In other words, passenger rail is profitable - for the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what is so discouraging about their practice of constantly forcing passenger trains onto sidings and causing them to arrive behind schedule.
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Is it a nostalgia thing? I can understand an auto-transport train, but passenger-only? I've looked at taking the train from DC to FL, but the prices were comparable to a flight from NY to FL. In my case, it would've been something I'd cross off my bucket list.

On that note, maybe I can ride down to DC and put the scoot on the train down to FL. Does it count if I sit on the scoot while the train is heading south?
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Dooglas wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Union Pacific is paid trackage fees for passenger trains using its routes. In other words, passenger rail is profitable - for the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what is so discouraging about their practice of constantly forcing passenger trains onto sidings and causing them to arrive behind schedule.
Maybe there's a law that says that they *must* provide "trackage access" to passenger trains? I wonder how much of the maintenance the trackage fees pay for.

EDIT: Tangentially, this law says that Amtrak passenger trains must have preference over freight trains.
Quote:
(c) Preference Over Freight Transportation. - Except in an emergency, intercity and commuter rail passenger transportation provided by or for Amtrak has preference over freight transportation in using a rail line, junction, or crossing unless the Board orders otherwise under this subsection. A rail carrier affected by this subsection may apply to the Board for relief. If the Board, after an opportunity for a hearing under section 553 of title 5, decides that preference for intercity and commuter rail passenger transportation materially will lessen the quality of freight transportation provided to shippers, the Board shall establish the rights of the carrier and Amtrak on reasonable terms. - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/V/C/243/24308#sthash.M5FlGLFq.dpuf
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UTC quote
DRWeside wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Union Pacific is paid trackage fees for passenger trains using its routes. In other words, passenger rail is profitable - for the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what is so discouraging about their practice of constantly forcing passenger trains onto sidings and causing them to arrive behind schedule.
Maybe there's a law that says that they *must* provide "trackage access" to passenger trains? I wonder how much of the maintenance the trackage fees pay for.

EDIT: Tangentially, this law says that Amtrak passenger trains must have preference over freight trains.
Quote:
(c) Preference Over Freight Transportation. - Except in an emergency, intercity and commuter rail passenger transportation provided by or for Amtrak has preference over freight transportation in using a rail line, junction, or crossing unless the Board orders otherwise under this subsection. A rail carrier affected by this subsection may apply to the Board for relief. If the Board, after an opportunity for a hearing under section 553 of title 5, decides that preference for intercity and commuter rail passenger transportation materially will lessen the quality of freight transportation provided to shippers, the Board shall establish the rights of the carrier and Amtrak on reasonable terms. - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/V/C/243/24308#sthash.M5FlGLFq.dpuf
Having recently waited two hours on the tracks 20 minutes from my destination for a mudslide to be cleared AND three freight trains to move by first I call bullshit on that law. The dining car nearly ran out of food and was begging for ones and fives before we got moving again.
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UTC quote
Re: West Coast Amtrak
Maniac wrote:
I miss living in New England and the East Coast train network...
Here, On the West Coast the schedule sucks and the cost is sky high...
I would love to put my Scooter on the train to Seattle or Vancouver from the SF Bay area. But there is no Auto Train on this side of the country. I think it's because Union Pacific monopolizes the tracks here...
Not only does Amtrak own nearly no track, they don't get even the same times on them every day. So a train might be scheduled for a time, but be bumped for hours to wait for a cargo train that never runs past.


Grrrr!



Mark
Amtrak is Government Subsidized...
It does not make money, and Freight has Priority on the Tracks.

With that said, I enjoy using when I am not in a hurry to get somewhere.
It is the most relaxing way to travel, as long as your not stuck next to someone "Farting" all the time while they are sleeping.
Now that deserves a Grrr !
Bring a can of Lysol with you...
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UTC

Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Farting!

Ugh...

Now that's funny!

Dang I'm 10 years old again this morning.
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UTC quote
DRWeside wrote:
Maybe there's a law that says that they *must* provide "trackage access" to passenger trains? I wonder how much of the maintenance the trackage fees pay for.
To say it a different way, the Union Pacific Railroad maintains its tracks whether passenger trains (which are very much lighter than freight trains) use them at all. It is another revenue stream for the railroad which includes little in the way of additional costs.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Union Pacific is paid trackage fees for passenger trains using its routes. In other words, passenger rail is profitable - for the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what is so discouraging about their practice of constantly forcing passenger trains onto sidings and causing them to arrive behind schedule.
Yeah you have a point there.
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UTC quote
Scooters and motorbikes, are not allowed on british rail services at all
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UTC quote
The US East Coast Auto Train allows motorcycles for about half the cost of a car but I am not aware of any others.

Found this on an Amtrak forum. I don't know the poster but based on a few of his posts he may be an Amtrak employee. The question was about why are there no east to west Auto Trains. Here was the response.
Quote:
There are several issues that would have to be successfully dealt with before it could happen.

One, there is not enough Amtrak equipment to do it, and it certainly has less than zero funds to do anything about that. It doesn't have the funds to keep it's CURRENT equipment in good repair, much less buy anything new.

Two, Amtrak's nationwide network runs mostly on tracks owned by freight rail companies like Union Pacific, BNSF, and CSX. While BNSF does a pretty good job of expediting Amtrak passenger trains, Union Pacific, in particular, seems to do it's utmost to delay and interfere with Amtrak trains, hence some of the nicknames like Unlimited Parking and Utterly Pathetic. Adding ANY additional Amtrak trains on freight railroad tracks would require agreement by those freight railroads. If Amtrak would not be able to have at least reasonable reliability in terms of on-time performance, it wouldn't be financially successful. Let's see... where was I? Ah yes...

Three, Amtrak is currently prohibited by Congress from starting ANY new routes unless it can GUARANTEE that they will not require any subsidy.

Four, even absent freight railroad interference, any new Auto-Train operations would probably require upgrades of existing tracks and signalling in order to be able to run at fast enough track speeds to be an attractive alternative to driving.

We would certainly like to see what you're suggesting, but the obstacles are substantial.
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Most if not all passenger lines lose money and rely on government subsidies to survive. Makes little sense to add more losers. If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Very true. Here in Utah, UP shares rails with our commuter rail...Front Runner and it works well. The Front Runner is running profitable and UP has been using the tracks between midnight and 4 AM for freight traffic.
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UTC quote
Paddlenround wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
Most if not all passenger lines lose money and rely on government subsidies to survive. Makes little sense to add more losers. If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Very true. Here in Utah, UP shares rails with our commuter rail...Front Runner and it works well. The Front Runner is running profitable and UP has been using the tracks between midnight and 4 AM for freight traffic.
Here in Sacramento there is a track that goes right through town. The other day, the arms came down for a light rail, back up after. Then down for a mile long freight train, then up. Then down again for another mile long freight train from the other other direction! At 8am in the morning midweek! Grrr!!!
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
If it was profitable I am thinking Union Pacific would be more cooperative.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Union Pacific is paid trackage fees for passenger trains using its routes. In other words, passenger rail is profitable - for the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what is so discouraging about their practice of constantly forcing passenger trains onto sidings and causing them to arrive behind schedule.
How do you know "trackage fees" make a profit for the UP railroad ?
@dooglas avatar
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UTC quote
acejones wrote:
How do you know "trackage fees" make a profit for the UP railroad ?
"Trackage fees" are fees paid to UPRR by Amtrak for access across their rail lines. There is no direct cost to UPRR for the access so I don't know what else you could call it. It is revenue to UPRR.
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UTC quote
"Next Stop, Suisun Fairfield, and every single small town in between...."
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Dooglas wrote:
acejones wrote:
How do you know "trackage fees" make a profit for the UP railroad ?
"Trackage fees" are fees paid to UPRR by Amtrak for access across their rail lines. There is no direct cost to UPRR for the access so I don't know what else you could call it. It is revenue to UPRR.
You are absolutely right. It is revenue. Revenue doesn't always translate to profit.
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