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@nabs avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS300
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
 
Hooked
@nabs avatar
GTS300
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
UTC quote
Google have just released the Nest thermostat in the UK and the internets are awash with commentary, which I summarize thus:

1. just turn off your heating and put a jumper on
2. why oh why do google have to be so big and creepy? And now they WILL KNOW WHEN WE ARE ON HOLIDAY!

does anyone know if there is:

a) a significant difference between the nest and the many competing devices
b) they are really much better than a bog-standard programable thermostat

I am hoping some of our US friends may actually own one and let me know!

They are available in the UK for £179 (including installation) if you order by 8th April, btw.
nest thermostat
nest thermostat
@midnight_rider avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
09 GTS (sold) 2014 NC700XD
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@midnight_rider avatar
09 GTS (sold) 2014 NC700XD
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UTC quote
I do not have one, but I was reading up on them. You save a lot of money if you move from a non programmable one to the nest, or if you move from a programmable one which was never programmed to the nest.

Ease of use was the biggest benefit.
@mitleider avatar
UTC

Hooked
2024 GTV & 2024 GTS Supertech
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Hooked
@mitleider avatar
2024 GTV & 2024 GTS Supertech
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Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Nest user
Have got Nest thermostat and smoke detector
Both brilliant!
Settings/alerts accessible remotely via cell phone
Recommended!
@paperino avatar
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GTS 250 "Audrey"
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@paperino avatar
GTS 250 "Audrey"
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UTC quote
I don't think the Nest is necessarily for everyone. If I were using a programmable t'stat I doubt I would change it out.

To quote Nest "Programming thermostats is complicated and irritating - but an un-programmed thermostat can waste 20% of your heating and cooling bill. So the Nest Thermostat programs itself." So you see, the savings is based on a non-programmable t'stat. And honestly, in the past (when I was in Florida) I never found a programmable t'stat to be "complicated and irritating."

Is air conditioning commonplace in the UK? I generally think of you being cooler than not, like here in Maine. I wouldn't bother with the Nest if I didn't have AC or liked to live with open windows (as I do).

In my case, hot days are too few to have AC, and I heat with wood and pellets. So clearly not for me.

I think the Nest is a neat thing for the right lifestyle and circumstance, but like many automated things, I don't find them necessary (or desirable).
@gasmk1 avatar
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Vespa lxv 125 vie dell moda Chianti
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Addicted
@gasmk1 avatar
Vespa lxv 125 vie dell moda Chianti
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UTC quote
Depends if you are forever turning your room thermostat up and down the nest apparently learns the way you live so does this for you,

If you have a programmable room thermostat and use it properly it will save you money over an old fashioned room thermostat, as they are more accurate.

At home I use a weather compensation system that I find extremely good, my boiler has and outside temperature sensor and this combined with the boiler having a heating return sensor calculates the heat required to keep my home at the desired temperature which I set at the boiler control panel. Mine is fairly simple in operation but on some you can alter the heating curve. The weather compensation cut my bills by about 25% on top of the condensing boilers savings.

I am waiting for a Tado thermostat to see if this can save me more.

When I first saw the nest I thought it was a brilliant tool but it is meant for systems that use heat and cooling and on that I think it will save a lot of money I am not convinced on the heat only function.
@raputtak avatar
UTC

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2016 GTS 300 Super - red, of course.
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@raputtak avatar
2016 GTS 300 Super - red, of course.
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UTC quote
(P.S. I never use google. I use duckduckgo.com. At least they claim not to track you. Although they do use other search engines who sometimes find you)
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UTC quote
I have one, preordered as soon as it was announced, didn't pay close enough attention and found out it wouldn't work with my asbestos clad gravity furnace. A year later I had the furnace replaced and the Nest installed.

Most the time it's just a really nice looking programable thermostat, but it does have some killer features that set it apart.

1. The user interface is really really nice. The ability to bump up the heat or turn it down without getting my glasses and the manual is key here.

2. Daylight Savings time comes and goes without having to get the manual out.

3. Auto Away notices that I'm not in the house and turns off the heat.

4. When out late or coming back from a trip, it's really nice to be able to phone ahead and turn the heat up.

Living in San Francisco, there are features that I'll never be able to use. It does some really clever things with the air conditioner, in some places working with the local power company to shift loads off peak usage times.

I didn't like the learning feature for setting the schedule, so turned that off and just setup the schedule manually.
@tn_sooner avatar
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2012 BV 350, 2013 BMW C650 GT, 2015 Indian Chieftain
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@tn_sooner avatar
2012 BV 350, 2013 BMW C650 GT, 2015 Indian Chieftain
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UTC quote
Nest recall
They've just issued a recall on one of their detector products.

http://wuwm.com/post/tech-week-amazon-fire-mozilla-debate-nests-recall
UTC

Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300
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Location: Warrington, UK
 
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300
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UTC quote
I have just bought one. Came yesterday, looks gorgeous. Just waiting for an install slot now
@tor2ga avatar
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Looking for the next one, probably electric
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@tor2ga avatar
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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UTC quote
I had a conversation with my HVAC guy about the Nest a couple of months ago. I have three wires running to my existing thermostat. It could be hooked up on three wires, but you would not have most of the exotic functionality. Or I could run a five wire, at great expense. Also, the full function of the device connects to that great data vacuum in the clouds, Google. Maybe it is just a sign of my great age, but I am not willing for Google, or anybody else to share those details about my daily life. I say screw 'em.

We set our $25 AC thermostat to stun and just leave it there for nine months of the year. When the weather gets cold we turn the AC off and open the windows.
@flordian avatar
UTC

Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS 'Drake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
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Rocket Man
@flordian avatar
GTS 300 ABS 'Drake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
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UTC quote
April Fools
Virgin Air and Nest collaborated on a great April Fools joke. The blogs were full of people that actually believed their commercial....

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/virgin-americas-nest-april-fools-joke-was-pretty-go-1556406954
OP
@nabs avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS300
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
 
Hooked
@nabs avatar
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UTC quote
savings
some good info above - particularly re-the purported savings being against a non-programable thermostat.

re. air-con, it does not really get hot enough in the UK to justify air-con in residential housing and it is unusual (although I am considering it for my shed!: [NSR] nab's garden garage (Page 4))
...so it is true we have less opportunity for savings - I should think my household is fairly typical in having the heating turned off between end of March and Oct/Nov depending on the weather. Having said that, energy prices are high - my annual bill is about £1700 ($2800).

let's say 50% of the cost is on heating, so I would need to reduce my usage by about 10% to pay back the £179 initial outlay in two years.

Given I already have a programable thermostat and there will only be marginal savings from e.g not heating the house when we are unexpectedly out, the rest will have to come from a change of behaviour. My theory is that the reports on usage will help convince my family to stick another jumper on and reduce the heating by a couple of degrees (or leave it turned off for longer).

I have decided to try and get clearance from the planning department (the missus) this evening.

hardly ideal timing for the purchase, since the heating is now turned off, but there you go.

alternatives
why the Nest rather than the functionally superior Tado? It is cheaper (until the 8th) and looks cool. I know, I am a terrible person.

I also like the fact that the (temporarily withdrawn) smoke detectors can talk to the thermostat and act as extended motion detectors - handy for me when I sometimes work from home in an upstairs room, and don't often descend downstairs.

As per gasmk1 it is true that a significant shortcoming of the Nest is that it will only control the central heating. However, from what I read on a couple of forums the Tado handles the hot water by heating the water whenever the central heating is on. gasmk1 can you confirm that? seems a bit odd if true.

value for money
.. actually does not seem to bad at £179 including install - a bog standard honneywell wireless is £120 (before installation fees)
http://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-cmt921-wireless-room-thermostat/87377?kpid=87377&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CISxrum8y70CFbLMtAodMAwAVA

.. assuming 50 quid for the installation, you are paying a tenner for a much more sophisticated device.
energy usage chart
energy usage chart
@gasmk1 avatar
UTC

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Vespa lxv 125 vie dell moda Chianti
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Addicted
@gasmk1 avatar
Vespa lxv 125 vie dell moda Chianti
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UTC quote
Re tado heating water I cannot comment as have not had any dealings with this side of it but if you have a good modern hot water cylinder with foam insulation the amount of time the boiler comes on to keep it at temperature will be minimal as it will only be topping the temperature up a couple of degrees.

The most savings in any home are made by it being well insulated, your savings with the nest tado or your programmable room stat are made because it is more accurate also the unoccupied period temperature is also set to whatever you require.

My boiler is a viessmann w200 with weather compensation and my heating is on from 6.30 till 10.30 everyday I set the comfort temperature at 20 during coldish time very cold I put it upto 21 spring I lower it to 18/19 I don't bother altering for the summer as it won't come on unless the outside temperature is cold.

Sound odd but I save money with the heating on all day. Have a bit of a study on weather compensation.

The big problem is to save money you have to spend on new controls or change your boiler, so you need to check the payback time.
@larrytsg avatar
UTC

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1979 P200e
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Location: Lock Haven, PA
 
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@larrytsg avatar
1979 P200e
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UTC quote
I had to replace my 20+ year old programmable thermostats last fall, as they weren't working well anymore. I looked at the Nest, and I knew a couple of clients (high end $$$ homes) who had them. But I couldn't justify in my own head $500USD for two thermostats.

I was already saving big $$ by turning my heat down during the day (I do work from home, but the heat is lower during the day), and night when I am sleeping. The only thing the Nest could do for me was "learn" my habits (my day or week is NOT predictable, so not sure how this would work), and it was controllable via internet.

As much as internet control was interesting to me (I could turn the heat down if I knew I was going to be out for a while), I couldn't justify spending big bucks for that gee whiz feature.

I went with a model suggested by my oil company, and it is much easier to program than my old thermostats. Plus, I could program the "swing", the temp where the heat comes on and shuts off. For example, if I want the house to remain at 66 deg F, I can have it come on at 64.5 and shut off at 67.5.

Oh, and we don't have our A/C controlled by the thermostats, we just have a couple of individually controlled room units.

I just can't see, other than internet control of your heat when you're away, that much advantage of the Nest over a comparable modern thermostat. I picked mine up at a home supply store for $60 each (and they are infinitely easier to program and adjust than the old circa 1991 models I had).
OP
@nabs avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS300
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
 
Hooked
@nabs avatar
GTS300
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
UTC quote
mine is now installed - here are some first impressions*

installation
Ordered on the 10th installed on the 28th

it looked pretty straightforward, although it was done by an installer: in my case simply replace the existing Honneywell wifi receiver with the Nest Link device. It was done in under 15 mins, allowing for a couple of trips up and down to the attic.

The actual process after ordering was pretty smooth - 5 mins after I put my order online I got a pre-emptive auto apology saying they were a bit behind with the installs but would be in touch as soon as they could. Not entirely surprising just after launching the product.

I gave it a few days and emailed asking how close they were to allocating install slots and as a result I was told someone would be in touch the following day. It seems my email crossed with the normal scheduling because the next day I got two appointments from different firms.

I declined one, and selected three dates/install time options. I was emailed a day later when my preferred date was confirmed. They promised to call half an hour before they arrived, which they did. The installer was polite and helpful and was quite obviously prepared to spend 20 mins explain how it all worked, but once we'd established I was happy to figure it out on my own was done in 2.

So overall, I would give the service 8/10 (2 knocked off for the slight delay). The only mild annoyance is that I have subsequently had a flurry of unnecessary calls and emails from nest apologizing for the "mess" that they made of the installs, when from my perspective it had all gone rather well. I suppose some people were more annoyed than i was.

hardware
seems to be well made, and is satisfying to use - the front of the device is like a big button and the aluminium trim is a big dial.

The tear-down report here concludes it was thoughtfully put together:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nest+Learning+Thermostat+2nd+Generation+Teardown/13818

locating the thermostat controller
the controller works on 12v and there are three options:
1. if you have a wired controller today it can be replaced in its current location (the wifi receiver will also be installed between the boiler and the controller and it will transform the current to 12v. Apparently the nest will still communicate over wifi despite being attached by wires)
2. buy a stand and plug it into a socket
3. Screw it to the wall and then plug it in with the flex trailing down the wall.

option 3 would look ridiculous in most situations, so it is hard to believe many people will do it, in which case people replacing a wireless thermostats are pretty much required to buy the (eye wateringly expensive) stand

it is a pity, therefore, that this is not made clearer in the ordering processes. Particularly for numpties like me who - despite knowing they will need a stand - don't remember until 5 seconds after submitting the order and therefore have to do a second order for the stand and pay an unnecessary delivery charge. grrr

web software
underwhelming, and the software geniuses that designed the scheduler have managed to make it far worse than the experience on my old white plastic honneywell thermostat controller (nice and simple: +/- for the time, option to copy one day from the other).

The nest experience is click,click, drag, drag again (the blob to show you what time you have selected expands to cover the scale so you can't see what you are doing), click click, drag, accept, click etc etc.

Why set the a schedule when the whole point is that it is supposed to do it automagically? Because there is a period when the creepy thing has not spied enough on you and yours to know what you want and there is thus nothing to stop it firing up your noisy central heating system in the middle of the night.

Will I ever tire of being able to set the temperature in my house on the web? Yes.

worth the £179?
probably not. If, as mentioned above, you already have a programmable thermostat it is unlikely to pay for itself any time soon. Allowing for the fact the undiscounted price with install is now £249 with another 30 quid for the stand and the financial case is looking pretty shaky.

Although, having said that, my neighbour round the back whose spare keys we have in case of emergencies did ring up the other day on the way back from a week away visiting relatives, and - having enquired about the weather - asked if my missus wouldn't mind popping round and turning on the heating so they didn't arrive to a cold house. Bloody cheek, but at least a real world justification for the invention of an internet enabled thermostat.

Finally, it does look cool. And who knows with a few more wifi receivers the boffins might extend the device to control other things also?

(* note UK install)
nest
nest
@araw avatar
UTC

Hooked
'04 ET4 190 +hotcam, Scorp Exhaust, Stereo. SPEED HOLES!
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Posts: 190
Location: SLC, UT
 
Hooked
@araw avatar
'04 ET4 190 +hotcam, Scorp Exhaust, Stereo. SPEED HOLES!
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Posts: 190
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UTC quote
+1 to the owners above. I love my Nest.
@genie avatar
UTC

Gobshite Shiva
Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
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Gobshite Shiva
@genie avatar
Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14960
Location: London UK
UTC quote
i just put a jumper on the heat runs for 2 hours morning and evening in the winter, 1 hour in the morning in spring and fall, and not at all in the summer. my gas and electric bills combined are £47 per month for an 800-square foot, poorly insulated flat in an Edwardian semi. beat that, nest!
OP
@nabs avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 141
Location: Hertfordshire, England
 
Hooked
@nabs avatar
GTS300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 141
Location: Hertfordshire, England
UTC quote
tis true that the best way to save money on your central heating is to turn it off.

I have revised my opinion of the software for controlling the nest remotely having tried the Android app, which is considerably less cacky than the web app.

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