Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:56 am

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:56 am linkquote
I have owned my '21 Vespa GTS Super 300 for about 6 months. I use it in FL and always fill it with ethanol-free gas. A few months ago I overfilled the tank (rookie mistake #1) while the bike was on the side stand (#2). I cleaned up and kept riding. The next day, the scooter started running really rough, like someone was pinching the fuel line. Shaky starts and jerky runs, check engine light also turned on and would not go out.

After a few days, I'm guessing the gas evaporated out of the EVAP and all went back to normal.

Fast forward a few months. It's 93F and I park the bike on the curb, but I could not find a shady spot. So it sat in the heat for a good 60-75 minutes. I came back to a scorching hot seat and, to my surprise, the bike would not start. Plenty of cranking, but no start. A guy on the sidewalk helps me by testing the spark plug. It was sparking just fine. We then tested the fuel line, check, it was moving fuel. Air also looked unobstructed. After each of the above, another try at starting….nothing. I remembered the articles I read on the EVAP and how they mentioned that hot weather also affected the system. So we looked for the EVAP and followed it all the way to the throttle body, trying to disconnect it. The clamp was a compression clamp and we had no luck as we shook it from side to side and pulled on it. One last attempt to start, and wouldn't you know it….vroom! Coincidence? Maybe, but highly unlikely.

It was right there and then I decided to remove the EVAP system. From all of the research I did, I came up with two options:
Option A: Simply Disconnect and Decommission
There is a great post on this that will help you. The pros is that it is simple, quick, and relatively easy to reverse. The cons is that you have a bunch of dead weight

Option B: Uninstall and Remove the EVAP

Here is how I did it:
You can read it, or watch the video

BASIC TOOLS:
10mm socket
Scissors or cutting pliers
Screwdriver (FLAT)

PARTS (bought at O'Reily's Auto Parts):
Assorted Vacuum Connectors- Dorman #47307
Hose clamps 5/16" - ⅝" (7.94mm-16mm) Master Pro
Rubber Vacuum Caps- Dorman #47396

REMOVAL OF EVAP

STEP 1: remove pet warmer to access engine compartment
STEP 2: remove 2 10mm nuts from the LEFT side of engine compartment
STEP 3: loosen rollover valve/canister bracket by pushing the now-loose screws from step 2 and pulling the assembly down towards floor.
STEP 4: cut hose feeding the rollover valve from the gas tank neck (should enter the rollover valve on the bottom)
STEP 5: loosen the rubber strap around the canister to release it from the metal bracket. You can do this by stretching the strap to create enough slack to unbuckle it.
STEP 6: follow the hose from the bottom of the canister that is opposite the hose that goes to the rollover valve. Locate 1 zip tie that is fixing it to the chassis and cut it. Continue to follow the hose until it meets the throttle body.
STEP 7: use cutting pliers to break compression clamp open and loosen the hose into the throttle body. Remove the hose to expose a bronze "nipple" into the throttle body. At this point, the EVAP assembly can be completely removed.

MODIFYING ENGINE TO WORK WITHOUT EVAP

OVERFILL DRAIN HOSE

The hose cut in STEP 4 above is where gasoline goes in case of an overfill/expansion situation.. If left at this length, the gasoline it can emit will hit the hot engine and can cause an engine fire. In order to avoid this, the hose needs to be extended so that it drains to the ground, as follows:

STEP 1: Thread a hose clamp over the cut hose and insert one end of a vacuum connector into the hose.
STEP 2: Get a length of extra hose that will reach the bottom opening of the engine compartment (I used a piece from the EVAP assembly) and attach it to the other end of the vacuum connector, using another clamp.
STEP 3: once the hoses are secure, thread the hose down to the lower opening of the engine compartment. There is another drain hose I used to attach this one to with a ziptie.

THROTTLE BODY PORT

The throttle body bronze fitting is an intake that no longer needs to be in service. It needs to be sealed tightly to maintain the pressure inside of the throttle body. NOTE: Since the 300 GTS Super is fuel injected (no carburetor), this port needs to be sealed in order for the throttle to work. Other models that are not fuel injected may require a foam filter instead of a plug.

STEP 1: find the vacuum cap that best fits the bronze "nipple". It should fit tight and be long enough to cover the piece.
STEP 2: using a clamp around the cap, secure tightly to the bronze nipple to seal the port closed.

FINISH UP:
Make sure all tools, parts, and debris are removed from the engine compartment.
Reinstall the pet carrier
Start up your Vespa.

CLOSING NOTES:
I plan to keep the parts, just in case this does not fix my issues. I did everything so that I could reassemble it if needed using new hoses and clamps.[img][/img][img][/img]
Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:26 am

Member
2022 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 29 Jun 2022
Posts: 15
Location: Alabama
 
Member
2022 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 29 Jun 2022
Posts: 15
Location: Alabama
Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:26 am linkquote
Couldn't comment on YT because the comments were turned off.

Last edited by Clampett on Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:11 pm

Hooked
Vespa 75th Anniversary GTS 300, Vespa 70th Anniversary PX150, Vespa 946, Vespa Rally 200, Vespa PX150, Piaggio Liberty 125
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 357
Location: Sarasota, Florida / Porano, Italy
 
Hooked
Vespa 75th Anniversary GTS 300, Vespa 70th Anniversary PX150, Vespa 946, Vespa Rally 200, Vespa PX150, Piaggio Liberty 125
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 357
Location: Sarasota, Florida / Porano, Italy
Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:11 pm linkquote
Excellent, thank you !

That should be a part of the Wiki
Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:18 pm

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:18 pm linkquote
Moto Mark wrote:
Excellent, thank you !

That should be a part of the Wiki
I was just happy I got the post up. Not sure how to get it into the Wiki.
Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:03 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:03 pm linkquote
If your scooter won't start and you suspect the EVAP system, the simple test is to loosen the fuel cap. You may hear a slight whoosh, but in any event a possible tank venting issue will go away. If that doesn't work and the scooter still won't start, you don't have a tank venting issue.
Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:33 pm

Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1724
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1724
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:33 pm linkquote
Andiamo300 wrote:
I was just happy I got the post up. Not sure how to get it into the Wiki.
Done.
Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:52 am

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:52 am linkquote
Dooglas wrote:
If your scooter won't start and you suspect the EVAP system, the simple test is to loosen the fuel cap. You may hear a slight whoosh, but in any event a possible tank venting issue will go away. If that doesn't work and the scooter still won't start, you don't have a tank venting issue.
Like I said, I'm guessing that was the problem and I am not a mechanic. I was giving a little background on how I got to the decision and not preaching the removal of EVAP as a "fix all".

It remains to be seen whether the issue is fixed now that the EVAP is removed. The system seems as useless as an ashtray on the handlebars, so that might be a reason to remove it. Sticking it to "the man" might be a reason. Avenging your father getting run over by a truck full of EVAPs as 4yr old you watched in horror from your swing set might be another reason.
So I am not buying or selling the solution as a fix, but if you have already made up your mind to remove it, then here's how I did it.
That is another good reason to leave the parts intact. You can always put it back if you need to. It's good to have options.
It was fun tinkering w the bike, nevertheless.
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:18 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:18 am linkquote
Andiamo300 wrote:
Like I said, I'm guessing that was the problem and I am not a mechanic. I was giving a little background on how I got to the decision and not preaching the removal of EVAP as a "fix all".
I think you misunderstood me. I was not advocating, or criticizing, anything. I was simply commenting that troubleshooting a tank venting issue is fairly straightforward - and requires no special mechanical aptitude.
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:39 am

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:39 am linkquote
Deleted

Last edited by giallo on Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:52 am

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:52 am linkquote
Andiamo300 wrote:
It remains to be seen whether the issue is fixed now that the EVAP is removed. The system seems as useless as an ashtray on the handlebars, so that might be a reason to remove it.
The EVAP system is there to help to keep hydrocarbons from evaporating into our air. As useless as a handlebar ashtray? Perhaps. That might entirely depend on ones views on environmental regulations.

BTW because my car's EVAP system had a malfunction, it didn't pass the last yearly inspection before an EVAP surgery much unlike your own.
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:02 am

Hooked
Sei Giorni
Joined: 02 Aug 2016
Posts: 186
Location: San Francisco
 
Hooked
Sei Giorni
Joined: 02 Aug 2016
Posts: 186
Location: San Francisco
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:02 am linkquote
Excellent post!

Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:22 am

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:22 am linkquote
Pump your breaks there fellas! It was a little humor to lighten up the room.

Guess I read the room wrong.
Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:51 am

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:51 am linkquote
Dooglas wrote:
I think you misunderstood me. I was not advocating, or criticizing, anything. I was simply commenting that troubleshooting a tank venting issue is fairly straightforward - and requires no special mechanical aptitude.
I think I did. Your comment was spot on and true and basically saying "tank pressure was not my issue" as I had originally guessed, and you were right. I am not an expert, just someone that wanted to share with other 300 owners the experience (I won't even call it knowledge) I had with mine. I wanted to give back a little to the community of others that helped me with my issue.

I was trying to bring some levity. Come on..., you know you laughed a little.

I think most of my issues are in fact fuel related, and not fuel system related. The bike sputtered out about three days later and you could hear my screams of anguish 3 blocks away.

As much as my bike sits idle (4-6 weeks) I think I need to be more on top of it with stabilizer, even though I only use Ethanol free gas. We shall see, as the bike now sits at the dealer for a full check-through while under warranty (bad fuel pump would be my only guess).

Nevertheless, this journey started with my overfill experience and the check engine light/rough run (I think I talk more in the video about it). If my bike has a system that is not required by law, that causes the ride to be ruined when a small amount of gasoline bubbles up as the tank is being filled, making it run like crap for 3-5 days w a check engine light on, and I have the choice between "in" or "out", I chose "out".

So I hope others that chose "out" like me, get something useful out of the post. Those that chose "in" should find videos more aligned with their outlook.


Happy and safe riding to you all!
-M
Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:57 am

Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
 
Member
GTS Súper 300
Joined: 24 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Minneapolis
Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:57 am linkquote
giallo wrote:
The EVAP system is there to help to keep hydrocarbons from evaporating into our air. As useless as a handlebar ashtray? Perhaps. That might entirely depend on ones views on environmental regulations.

BTW because my car's EVAP system had a malfunction, it didn't pass the last yearly inspection before an EVAP surgery much unlike your own.
As far as the environment, I think the argument goes way beyond an EVAP system. How much fumes do we let out in the air when fueling our tanks every day? Should lawnmowers have EVAPs? If it is such an effective system, why is CA the ONLY place it is required by law? We can go on for days having that discussion, reaching no conclusion other than whose stamina for arguing is stronger.

I respect your opinion on the EVAP system and your obvious desire to leave one installed and use it. You are 100% right when you say it entirely depends on one's view.

Not once did I say "all of you must follow my view". I, like you, simply stated my opinion and did so using humor to lighten up the discussion.

There is no absolute truth when it comes to this stuff. Only views/opinions. And I get that you want your view heard, but can talk about fun stuff like scooters? Life is too short.

I came to this forum to talk Vespas, riding with bugs in your teeth, and enjoying the great outdoors on a beautiful ride.

I wish you all safe and fun riding! -M
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:01 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41203
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:01 pm linkquote
Andiamo300 wrote:
Pump your breaks there fellas! It was a little humor to lighten up the room.

Guess I read the room wrong.
Don't worry. I'm hugely in favour of environmental solutions (despite the fact it costs $205 in CA to smog test our 1984 VW camper) - but this evap crap *as designed by Piaggio* is pretty useless. Properly positioning a simple tank vent line (as Piaggio have done for the rest of the world) prevents nearly all fuel evaporations from reaching the outside.

It's a bad design, pure and simple. Only there to satisfy 50-state import regulations.

While we're on this, the CA 'foreskin' on the fuel pump nozzles causes more spillages of gas with motorcycles then would be the case without it. Cure worse than the disease, yet again.
Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:14 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 336
Location: NYC
Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:14 pm linkquote
Andiamo300 wrote:
If it is such an effective system, why is CA the ONLY place it is required by law?
Because Californias environmental laws are stricter than those of other places. That is either better or worse depending on your point of view. But it is.
Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:05 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12768
Location: Oregon City, OR
Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:05 pm linkquote
giallo wrote:
Because Californias environmental laws are stricter than those of other places. That is either better or worse depending on your point of view. But it is.
I am also certainly not looking for an argument with anyone on this site about the merits of environmental laws, but I am a big one on factual observations. Quite a few other states have basically adopted the California CARB rules for low emission vehicles including Oregon where I live (14 states plus DC). And as Jim observed, the requirement for a fuel evaporation control system on gasoline vehicles imported into the US is a federal requirement.
  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

All Content Copyright 2005-2022 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.0298s ][ Queries: 6 (0.0104s) ][ Debug on ][ 211 ][ Thing One ]