Modern Vespa

Installed a vespower unit on my lml with a new generation pinasco 177 alum kit. This is my first variable ignition so I'm trying to understand the basics. It looks like I should expect to see a few degrees of advance from idle into mid range then up to 8* of retard through the high rpm.
I started at 20* as the suggested timing for the kit from the beedspeed chart. My first strobe showed the mark at about 14-15 at idle. I could see it advance slightly before going back to the lower range but at around mid throttle the mark just disappears. Not sure why, but I can't tell what it's really doing past mid throttle. I adjusted the stator to nearly the end of it's slotted opening and I'm still firing too late under my assumed setup.
So....before I start opening up the slots in the stator I'm hoping for feedback on the settings. If I accept an idle of 18 then I could possibly get a high rpm spark at 13ish right? Seems really late compared to everything I've read here.
There's not a lot on MV yet for the vespower or the new gen pinasco so I realize I'm swimming new water. Just looking for some experienced guidance to help me get to a comfortable starting point, without damagimg shit.

Two things of note-
I am pretty sure. Tghat ignition is based on the same auto parts the parma and varitronic are. If so, it is tricky to time, as it sparks twice a revolution. Confuses the smart timing guns. They are off by a factor of two, and a factor of four if they don't havea wasted spark/two stroke mode.

Second, you really just want to figgure out where you need timing to be at ildle and set that. Look at the curve, calculate it out, and set it at idle.

I think a px (at idle) is to be set at 21or 22 degrees before tdc......so then (the vespower kit) at higher revs retards the timing.....that is to say ....idle at 1500rpm....21 degrees.....then. At 6000rpm it will have retarded the spark by 8 degrees to 14-13 degrees Btdc automatically.....but if you start at (idle) at 18 degrees...you will be blowin' fuel out ur tailpipe....because spark will have happend tooo late for proper combustion to have taken place...... I Am just installing this same kit in my 79 p150x....as we speak....so i will update in a day or three......tailgate.good luck.

ahh...look forward to the update. i'll be interested to know if you run into the same stator positioning issue I have, in terms of needing to lengthen the slotted openings. it doesn't make sense to me that the backing plate would have to modified, super hesitant to go at that one. I'm going to advance the stator as much as I can tonight and re-strobe to see exactly how close I can get to 20-21.

Rob...I have your ordinary timing gun from HF, though it does have an 'advance' setting wheel on it that I set to zero as instructed. is this the type that will get confused or will it still strobe as expected?
I saw somewhere here that someone was seeing a similar phenom with the mark disappearing and it may have been related to the strobe not keeping up.

@anyone...are the beedspeed timing suggestions based on fixed timing at 3500ish rpm?

set timing to desired most advanced BTDC # (23ish) @ 2500 rpm and double check it does not advance past this #...!!

green line:


3 advancing from idle then 8 retarding after 4000 rpm

That was potentially a very expensive f*ckup....and thank whoever I decided to double check tdc before going at those slots in the stator plate and advancing the timing. Of the three marks I made while finding tdc, I had somehow marked the anti clockwise bump stop as tdc...essentially advancing Tdc 12*. Obviously that's why the timing was so off when I checked Sunday. Measure twice, cut once.

So I'm now at 19-20* at lowest stable idle. My tach is not back yet so I don't know exactly where it begins to retard. It's barely advancing at low throttle, maybe 2*. And the strobe is still cutting out before half throttle. I could use a suggestion on an appropriate timing light.

yes looking at the instruction booklet included...they recommend that the marks sit in the middle )...( matching the marks on the stator plate to the marks on the case...they recommend 23 degrees before tdc..(which is the middle mark on the stator plate).....which leaves about 15 degrees before top dead centre at full throttle......my bike is a non battery points ,euro model...I ordered the p x kit ...but the px kit expects you to have a cdi mouting bracket....so I have to wait for scooter mehr-cado to send me one...a flaw in the malossi vespower kit......

ok
but if you engine doesn't rev to 8000 rpms then your engine shall never get to 15 BTDC

I don't know your tune level but lets say your engine can't get past 6000rpm then the most retarded the timing shall get to is 18 BTDC

this is if you set the idle to 20 BTDC

18 BTDC is fine
most static ignitions run 18 BTDC anyway

do you have a RPM tac...??

the issue that arises with the is ignition is if your in 4th gear @ a low rpm (4000)... your timing would still be all the way advanced @ 23 BTDC = hot = seize

I see what u mean ....but if you are at a lower cruising rpm due to a taller fourth gear....ergo....you are at a lower cruising rpm.....ergo. Less heat by piston speed and less frequent spark thus requiring less advance.....no?........ps i dont know what ergo means....but it sounds smart......however....clearly i do see what ur saying ......ie. ...some ignitions should have user defineable curves appropriate to use......but my alternative was a static advance points.system..http://youtu.be/vq2uen_0w4E

[quote="tailgate"]I see what u mean ....but if you are at a lower cruising rpm due to a taller fourth gear....ergo....you are at a lower cruising rpm.....ergo. Less heat by piston speed and less frequent spark thus requiring less advance.....no?........ps i dont know what ergo means....but it sounds smart......however....clearly i do see what ur saying ......ie. ...some ignitions should have user defineable curves appropriate to use......but my alternative was a static advance points.system...plus I spent 500 bucks on this ignition ...so don't harsh my mellow.http://youtu.be/vq2uen_0w4E