Modern Vespa

Is there a future for the PX to stay in production? The best features seem to be the very cause of its future problems - the gear system, the simple 2 stroke engine, - which will eventually push it to the limits in terms of dealing with emissions standards. Do you think it will stay with us much longer?

IMHO I think the mighty PX will not be around much longer... Unfortunately the 2 stroke engine will be unlikely to comply with future Euro emissions regulations and the manual gear box has limited appeal these days.

A damn shame, I really like the PX!

I would have thought that Piaggio would have no real reason to stop... especially as they put it back into production when LML filled the void.

I don't think they would want to stop, but may be forced to due to emissions regulations. I'm not sure it would make any sense to drop a more modern engine in, as the reason people seem to buy them is for the simplicity and availability of parts...

I think it depends on what type of customer is buying the new PX (enthusiasts, young people, commuters?) and how many of these customers there are. I love the PX and will always have one or two in the garage. However, these would be older examples rather than the 2011+ models.

As an enthusiast, a P/PX series still counts, because of four things: two stroke, air cooled, manual gearbox and very little plastic. However, the 2011+ has quality and reliability issues in addition to the emissions strangulation.

I have nothing against the new range. If I had £3000+ to spend on a new Vespa, it would not be a PX. If the rumour mill is accurate re: a forthcoming large capacity Vespa with a classic name (Rally 300?), I would take a good look. The new Primavera and Sprint are cute, but the engines are too small.

Plundering their back-catalogue for classic names doesn't make a classic. Just like the "new" Beetle, "new" Mini etc. The Primavera, Sprint and now Rally are just boring autos... they're probably reliable as well!

Ginch I absolutely agree, but if I needed to spend quite a lot of money on a modern, bullet proof daily ride to complement my 'classic' Vespas, I would take a new Vespa over some other brand, so long as it is > 200cc. The name is not a consideration, but it's inevitable that Piaggio will introduce more famous names like Rally, GS etc.

Recycling of old names is nothing new as it happens in the auto industry to drum up attention. But it is a lame way to go about it.

I actually like riding my shifty scoots and blowing peoples minds with the performance they have. I rode the old P to bike night this past Monday evening and had more folks eyeing and pawing mine than anything there. These bikes aren't for today's owner / rider, as love and constant tinkering attention is required which most people in the market lack, along with the gumption to get off their arse and do anything beyond adding petrol and twisting the grip or complain when something is amiss. I love tinkering with mine and tweaking so they run a bit better than the last time out. I think Piaggio realizes their customer base has changed along with tightening emission requirements which will ultimately halt production of the PX. On the upside, these old scoots last, and parts availability has become plentiful and affordable, so these will be repurposed for years to come by the gear head group that already owns and rides them. There will always be folks that want to be different, and these definitely foot the bill.

I agree with earlier sentiments about the PX engine going out with the changes of the times. Emissions are cutting down. I've been saying it for years but I think the best thing they can do is design an air-cooled auto or manual engine that will fit under vintage cowls. Keep the old looking bikes on the road with a modified engine. Bajaj and then LML had the idea and Vespa's made efforts to keep up in some degree.

LML found a way to shove a 4t into their PX-esque frame (I think Bajaj did too). If Vespa wanted to, and the market was there, they could release a shifty 4 stroke PX to meet emissions standards.

Ummm... Stellauto?

I'm saying Vespa should step it up to respond to what Bajaj and later LML have done. There have been efforts by other companys to outmatch Vespa's accomplishments and they should make a legit effort to retrofit old frames with a new engine. The LML auto engine is backwards, with a spare tire on the traditional engine side. I'm talking just plug and play for the most part.

True, but the LML shifty has already met its death and we now have the Stella / LML auto. I rode a Stella 4 stroke shifty and wasn't very taken with it. To get a 4 stroke to perform like the PX200, they would need a 300 + cc engine, and that's highly unlikely. I've really been amazed how many have piled on the Stella auto bandwagon, and time will tell if others will follow suit. For me, there's nothing like the smell of a 2 stroke in the morning. The technology is there to make the 2 stroke meet regulations, but it's doubtful the PX series bike will ever see this. Piaggio's Aprilia SR50 meets the emission requirements with its direct injection technology and they run well for a 49cc bike. Aprilia manufactured a SR125 for a short period of time, but scrapped the bike when they switched to the Morini engine.

???????????

Based on what? The LML Star 125, 150 and 200ie 4T shifties are still in production and selling well in Italy, among other places. Just saw two guys from Italy on their brand new Star 150s arrive here on the ferry the other day. They love them.

I asked basically the same question a while back over on the modern side.

Why No Shifty Moderns?

The fact is Vespa's market has changed. Its demographic today mostly wants an upscale urban commuter: A nice quiet, easy, reliable ride, that will get them to work and back inexpensively with a minimum of hassle. Shifting gears can be a pain in traffic and they don't want to deal with it. CVTs are simple, efficient and get the job done.

My guess is the closest thing to a modern shifty we'll see from Vespa will be a "sports" model - a clutchless shifter, with electronically selectable drive ratios like the Suzuki Burgman or the Honda DCT. Would definitely up the fun factor.

They aren't in our market and I would think that if LML saw a void in the US market, they would set up distribution as they have in Europe and market them here? I suppose I could purchase a Villa in Tuscany and get myself a 4 stroke shifty Stella?

Piaggio has been able to sell a few thousand updated PX 125 and PX 150s per year without having to retool. Until 2T can no longer meet emissions limits, why go through the engineering and retooling expense? When they are 2 years away from being unable to sell 2T Ps, then they can make a decision about a major investment in a new engine and probably modified chassis to accommodate it.

I'd say they should do a 125 and a 200, if they pursue a 4T shifty.

Willie-

LML has been in the US market as Stella for quite some time. But, yes, I would guess that if The Genuine Scooter Co hadn't brought the LML in under their banner, the small US market potential would never have drawn LML in directly.

I'm really sure that Piaggio will maintain the PX exactly as it looks but with a 4 stroke engine according with the emission limit and the gear as it is. And all this talking about shifting gears... are you kidding me? Shifting gears is part of the thing. I think LML is going ok because I know a person here in Brazil who owns a 4 stroke LML and he travels a lot with it. Last week he went to Paraguay (3.200 km from his home) with no problem on the road. I'm sure that the Indian made parts will last less, but this is the price (products made with poor material) of everything made nowadays. Hope Piaggio maintain the quality of it's scooters, including the PX.

there will always be a market for 2stroke engines I think..


Honda has been saying otherwise since the 1970s but I won't ever buy a 4stroke whipper snipper

There's more debate going on in another thread saying that all bikes sold in Europe will need ABS by 2016... While I'd love ABS on the PX, it seems to be another complexity for what is supposed to be a simple machine.

For me, I love the 'put put' of the two stroke engine, the occasional clunk of the gear changes etc. Its more about the experience than the need to get anywhere quickly.

I gave up commuting by motorbike a good few years ago, now I take a more leisurely approach to bike... BWT, my last PX never had a single problem in 3 years of use, I didn't have to get my hands dirty once.

This is exactly what a Vespa should not be... it seems to be a (3d rendering) modern scooter, with a plastic retro shape & lots of chromed plastic parts to make it look old style...

The success of the (manual) Vespa is the long lastings & repairable metal monocoque chassis, the simplicity of assembly/disassembly, simple mechanics & the ability to accessories or individualise. Its not just about knocking out a retro looking scooter, but the classic style is obviously still important.

I thought that LML doesnt import to America, Geniune imports the LML Star here rebadged as the Genuine Stella. I am surprised that more people are not privately importing the Star 200 to the US.

Your thoughts are correct. It's a somewhat modified LML Star (DOT and EPA compliant)

By "privately importing" do you mean individuals buying them overseas and personally "importing" them? Much easier said than done, as they would have to be brought to US DOT and EPA standards by a licensed firm. You cannot self modify.

As to why Genuine has not added the 200ie to their line up ( or replaced the 150 with it) is an interesting question. They would have to have it DOT and EPA approved, and perhaps they don't see enough market potential to justify the cost of having all that work done. Vehicles for import to the US must be made to US specs in discrete and separate production runs. You can't simply pull a bunch of non-US spec units out of inventory and mod them.

there you have it

With the cargo loads of bodges coming into the US I didnt think privately importing was that tough.

My Arcobaleno PX150E was privately imported to the US and registered unmodified (my speedo is in Km instead of Miles). But it was given a new VIN in Maryland and says 2001 on the title (even tho it is a mid 90's model) and I have heard that some states in New Englad have loopholes to get vehicles registered.

Ace

Bodges are old enough to be exempt from EPA/DOT. Vehicles over 20 years old, in original configuration, are exempt from EPA/DOT compliance. Perhaps the guy who imported your PX was able to represent it as over 20 years old?

Yes, occasional scooters have made it into the US, but Customs has gotten much more particular about what it lets through, especially since 9/11.

Now, once you get through Customs, you might get a state to register it. The "model year" will be up for grabs, as non-US spec vehicles do not show a model year in digit 10 of the VIN, but just a "zero" - which is not a valid character on a US spec vehicle.

Trying to "self import" a non-compliant vehicle, especially one that has never been in the US market, is very risky. What Customs will do is give you three choices:

1. Ship it back
2. Surrender it for destruction
3. Put it in bonded storage and give you X number of days to contract with a registered import compliance shop to have it brought to US spec, if such is even possible. If it can't be brought to US spec, then back to 1 and 2 above.

Or from one of the dozens of dealers that have them here in the U.S.

I don't know about 2t so much, but I think the shifty scoot is on it's last legs in the USA. I'm talking about new scooters. Case in point: my local Vespa dealers has two Stellas (2005 &2009) and a PX150, all new, no miles. I asked him a couple years ago if he would be getting any of the Stella 4T shifties. He said he would after he sold the other Stellas and PX. Has not happened. They sit there and collect dust.

Only leftover 150s, no 200s. Genuine has thrown in the towel on the Shifty 4 stroke and is now only offering autos in the US. BTW, there are leftover PX150s and Stella 2-Ts. This is a thread regarding the lack of availability of 2 stroke Ps and a discussion about what everyone feels regarding Piaggio's PX line, not what's left in Genuine's dealer inventory. Read the entire thread.

There's a local dealer with 3 new 2 stroke Stellas. I tried to purchase one from him but he wanted retail money for them. Considering his carry costs, and having his capitol tied up in these since 2008, I don't understand his mentality. I found a new Stella in Indiana and was able to purchase it well below my local guy's price and got a good color (black) instead of the olive green and robin egg blue that he had. There's a dealer in Nashville that had 4 or 5 new PX150s that was trying to get 5K + for them. One even had transit damage, but he was unwilling to come off the price. This mentality of doing business is why so many powersport businesses struggle to stay in business. If you wanted a 4 stroke shifty, your dealer should have gotten a deposit and ordered you a bike.

Correction:

This is a thread regarding the lack of availability of 2 stroke Ps in the USA and a discussion about what everyone Americans feel regarding Piaggio's PX line, not what's left in Genuine's dealer inventory. Read the entire thread.

The PX is alive and well in Europe. Obviously enough Europeans feel good enough about the PX line to keep it on the market here.

Correct

Then make a trip to Europe and find a good 1993 or older PX and ship it back to the US. No EPA/DOT issues, and you get a good vacation to boot. Ain't no hope for new PXs in the US of A.

CLICKY for PX

and

CLICKY for COSA

Actually, this thread is about the future development (or otherwise) of the PX, but it seems to have derailed slightly and now seems to be about whether a rebadged lml is an lml!?!

OK, so I will reiterate my thoughts above on the future, or lack thereof Or, they could do a super nifty direct injection, wet sump 2T. Only burns fuel, no 2T oil.

I think I have the market cornered at the moment. 79 P, Stella with a built Rally motor. The only thing remaining from the Stella is the frame and speedo. I've also got my eye on a T5 that's come up for sale as well. I'm a big fan of the shifty 2 stroke scoots. It's sad that Piaggio has taken the stance they have in the US. I think they could sell a limited number if their dealers were a bit more informed and encouraged to do so. I would buy a new PX in a heart beat if they were to bring them back. De-regulalizing these is an easy task.

Snatch that T5 man. Won't be sorry