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64 GL150, 64 VBB retired
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The GL is alive and on the road, working out some tuning with al on his vortex. Couple other questions:
Starting with just odd....I fit 3.5x10 heidenaus on 2.5x10 tubeless rims. The rear wheel went on the bike, a bit tricky and tight to get in there but fit. Now I can't get it out. The only difference is that I fit the tire with glove cowl off so it may have had more flex in there. Ended up removing entire hub with wheel on its. Didn't try deflating though. Anyone else find this? The inflated tire measures 3.78" and I suspect it's only in need of a 1/4 to 3/8 to slip past the studs. 3.0's?
Second, fit a bgm superstrong clutch. It's working great so far. Doing plug chops and coasting to stop there was a more prominent noise than I recall on my previous scoots (vbb and Allstate). No grinding or rattling, not particularly loud? Just a consistent noise that winds down with coasting speed. It could be a rubbing noise but doesn't quite sound like it. Not even sure it's in the clutch, but no noise in neutral and I can hear it when just rolling slow with clutch in, engine off. I checked adjustment, put the bike in the air and the clutch is disengaging. I I did modify the inside of the clutch cover for the bgm. So wanted to see what others thought, or other things I could check before I opened the clutch.
Thanks
@sfvsr avatar
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You can't remove the tire with hub attached. The hub won't clear the axle.
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As for the metal rubbing noise as you coast, there is not enough space between the gear plate and the spring plate. It needs more room by adding a shim bwteen the two. Does the BGM clutch use the same sort of brass washer between the spring plate and the gear plate as the stock Vespa clutch? If so, simply add a second one. Please measure clearance between the heights of the two as they nest together. The spring plate must sit higher than the gear pkate. I posted a picture here somewhere ... Of course, it could be fouling on the layshaft where the cush gear is.
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Hooked
64 GL150, 64 VBB retired
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UTC quote
SFvsr wrote:
As for the metal rubbing noise as you coast, there is not enough space between the gear plate and the spring plate. It needs more room by adding a shim bwteen the two. Does the BGM clutch use the same sort of brass washer between the spring plate and the gear plate as the stock Vespa clutch? If so, simply add a second one. Please measure clearance between the heights of the two as they nest together. The spring plate must sit higher than the gear pkate. I posted a picture here somewhere ... Of course, it could be fouling on the layshaft where the cush gear is.
Appreciate the response...the bgm came as a complete unit, oiled, and ready for install. I didn't pull it apart to see if it was made up if the same components, not sure what size that brass spacer would be.
By fouling on the lay shaft you think the Cush gear plates could be contacting the clutch? Or something different ?
I am able to get the wheel off with hub attached but obviously it's very carefully done so to not bang up the splines. Certainly can't do that to change out a tire.
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64 GL150, 64 VBB retired
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SFvsr wrote:
there is not enough space between the gear plate and the spring plate. It needs more room by adding a shim bwteen the two. Does the BGM clutch use the same sort of brass washer between the spring plate and the gear plate as the stock Vespa clutch? If so, simply add a second one. Please measure clearance between the heights of the two as they nest together. The spring plate must sit higher than the gear pkate.
Sfvsr....opened up the clutch cover and did not find anything unusual in terms of rubbing marks, the cover and basket were clean, which I guess makes sense since the noise was related to clutch being engaged and coasting in gear (no noise with clutch engaged and sitting still). Pulled apart the clutch and there is a similar brass spacer, though I don't have the right tools to measure the gap for you as the spacer is not between "plates", it's a nested assembly. Any other thoughts?
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Hoping someone here can help me get this sorted out....cannonball in 5 weeks....
Put clutch back in with freshly oiled plates, and as I installed I spun all that I could in gear, out of gear, neutral, from the wheel, from the flywheel, etc. everything looked good and moved well, and no odd sounds. Only thing I could not do while the cover was still off was disengage the clutch.
So...hard to tell really but the noise seems to be more to the bottom of the case rather than behind the clutch cover. All of the following is engine not running and rotating rear wheel by hand...
Neutral with clutch in or out is fine. No noise, So I think this means it's not in the drive shaft assembly since that would be the only thing moving?
I put it in gear and keep the clutch lever engaged and the wheel is very difficult to move by hand, and I hear the noise. Best I can tell the same noise is not there when clutch is released. I tried to tighten cable, even over tighten the cable and same results. It's also the same resistance and noise in all gears. I looked very carefully at the Cush drive to see if maybe the clutch basket was nicking the rivets or something...but it's a consistent resistance, not a chatter that I would expect if hitting the rivets, and it's a rubbing sort of noise, not grinding or rattling.
I guess the dumb question is... Shouldn't the rear wheel be fairly easy to move when it's in gear and clutch lever in?
Last...when i it put in gear, hold the clutch, and move the kickstart it takes a couple kicks to fully disengage the plates, even with the cable extra tight. In this case I was just thinking that with freshly oiled sticky plates and no rotating force was enough to hold things together a little....but maybe it's related.
Thanks
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Jesus- that BGM clutch is some sexy shit.
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Measure your plunger. Something is causing the lutch to not entirely disengage.
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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If the wheel goes on with the hub in place, it must come off again. On the Super (not sure exactly if the frame pressings are the same in that part), I pull the wheel up and back towards the number plate. Then wriggle it around, there's a spot that will allow you to twist it slightly behind the motor and down and out. It's squeezed between the hub and frame of course and may mark your tyres a little if you worry about that.

No idea about the noise sorry but I do love those clutches... it's on the list!
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SFvsr wrote:
Measure your plunger. Something is causing the lutch to not entirely disengage.
I'll open it this morning and have a look. Diagnostically, I'm certain the noise is related to the wheel not freely rotating when it in gear, clutch is pulled,and flywheel is static. Is there anything else might cause the wheel to hold up like that or it's gotta be clutch?
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bgm clutch comp to orig clutch
here are some numbers:
brass plunger is 12.1 mm total height and 7.1 mm tall where it fits over the actuator arm. the rise max's out at ~7.6 mm
the following comparison measurements are BGM first number and stock PX clutch second number:
total diameters at basket are 118 mm and 121 mm
total assembly thickness from face of gear to face of basket (or cups in the case of the PX is 47.8 mm and 47.5 mm
distance from outer face of gear to interior edge of basket (the distance that would change when the clutch is disengaged) is 17.8 mm and 17.5 mm.
the total thickness of the basket (including the cups on the PX) is 31.2 mm and 30.3 mm
the tough measurement to get was an approximation of the push plate relative to the plunger in each setup, trying to get at weather the plunger is too short. the delta between the two setups is ~.5 mm

and now some side-by-side photos....
in one you can see a hint of where it may be rubbing, it would explain the partial disengagement, the noise, and the wheel resistance (i think). but i can not see anything inside that shows where that might be occurring.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Can you take a level photo of the two clutches? Straight across the top.
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Photo level at top
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Another
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@vader19 avatar
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I'd try milling a bit more off your cover and using a slightly thinner spacer washer, but I see you're using your autolube, so forget that.. mill some more out of your clutch cover.. around the corners too like this:
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Vader19 wrote:
I'd try milling a bit more off your cover and using a slightly thinner spacer washer, but I see you're using your autolube, so forget that.. mill some more out of your clutch cover.. around the corners too like this:
Thanks for chiming in vader...I'm pretty sure it's not the cover but just to make sure what are you thinking might be causing the wheel resistance, and resulting noise? The rear wheel is actually easier to move through the compression stroke in gear with clutch out then when the flywheel is static and with clutch in. When I pull the clutch the basket is being pushed toward the flyside, away from cover. Am I thinking through this right...
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Vader...ginch...sfvsr
I started a new thread 'rear wheel not rotating' to focus on main issue and hoping for more eyes....thanks
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