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@nielsen avatar
UTC

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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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UTC quote
So I have just found what is reputedly a '56 Low Light. I need some help to 1) assess it's authenticity, strengths, and shortcomings; 2) assess an approximate value because I am considering buying it. I have over 40 pics, so if any of the following few aren't sufficient, please let me know and I should be able to post specific others. The scooter has been in heated homes (in the homes) for over 40 years and reputedly came from Italy via Germany about 14 years ago. The present owner has owned it since 2000. It runs well and everything works. There does not appear to be a speck of rust anywhere. The serial number is VN1T followed by 6 (perfectly legible digits) digits. The engine serial # is VN1M 017 (and three more digits) (I'm keeping the numbers confidential for privacy concerns, but hopefully they will help you experts out there). Is it the right engine for the scooter? The label on the saddle is very faded. I can just make out the letters 'EUN' (?) plus some more stuff on eiter side and below. The headlight bezel is a Siem, as is the glass light cover which also says IGMC 1242 16-6-55 (does this mean manufactured in 1955--which would be right for the scooter). Please chime in. I really don't know what I'm deal;ing with here, though my gut instinct is that this is a pretty special scooter. Please be critical..... Should I buy it.... What should I be willing to pay....?
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UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
I'll start be telling you that I don't know much about it. Hopefully Bar Italia will post - they're the experts. I posted to ask you what you may do with said scooter. It really is a collector scoot as you may know. It will also be very slow for today's traffic. Right now it basically is a piece of static art - and there is nothing wrong with that. I just don't want you to go riding on it and get run over. If you can live within it's limitations, fine. I wish you good luck with your decision.
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
Me again, I think Piaggio moved the light to the handlebars by 1955, but I may be wrong about this.
@tract_punk avatar
UTC

Hooked
1974 Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 340
Location: Nyack, New York
 
Hooked
@tract_punk avatar
1974 Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 340
Location: Nyack, New York
UTC quote
Have you seen this thread? Might be helpful to you.
OP
@nielsen avatar
UTC

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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
Joined: UTC
Posts: 38
Location: Vancouver, Canada
UTC quote
Thanks for the link, Tract. Very useful indeed. I'm still a bit surprised at how difficult it is to find reliable info on these old scoots. Maybe I'm looking for information in all the wrong places
@tract_punk avatar
UTC

Hooked
1974 Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 340
Location: Nyack, New York
 
Hooked
@tract_punk avatar
1974 Rally 200
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Location: Nyack, New York
UTC quote
nielsen wrote:
... Maybe I'm looking for information in all the wrong places
Nah, it's just that the Internet is only so useful. Finding someone near you who'll show you stuff IRL for a sixer is really the way to do it. But then it depends where you are.
@filmworker avatar
UTC

Hooked
1962 VBB1
Joined: UTC
Posts: 214
Location: vancouver
 
Hooked
@filmworker avatar
1962 VBB1
Joined: UTC
Posts: 214
Location: vancouver
UTC quote
It's genuine. People in the Vancouver scene know this bike. It was brought in from Germany. Apparently it was stored for years over there. Don't think the paint is original and it's not concourse.

Don't buy it!!!! Not for your first bike. It won't go over 35.

Simon
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@nielsen avatar
UTC

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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
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UTC quote
Hi Simon: I know about the (very) limited speed of the Scooter and am fine with that. I have a wonderful old Norton 'Commando' to get quickly and entertainingly from 'A' to 'B'. Thus the speed doesn't matter, but to me authenticity does. That means that it has the right bits (obviously including engine) I presume that when you say it is not concourse, you mean that it appears gently used as opposed to 'right out of the box'. Yeah, I can't tell about the paint, but the inside of the panels (though not the interior of the tool box) are painted with what looks like red oxide primer, so I doubt if the outside paint is original. What is a fair price..... Anyone?
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
I would suggest you PM Bar Italia. They would have an idea roughly of what it may be worth. I say roughly because it would not be right in front of them.
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@nielsen avatar
UTC

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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
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UTC quote
Thanks for that, Tierney. Have done so. Hope to hear back.
UTC

Member
1953 Vespa 125
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Location: San Antonio
 
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1953 Vespa 125
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UTC quote
The engine and carb look like mine. I have a 53/54 MotoVespa 125. I'm the second owner to my uncle in Spain that ordered it from the brand new factory in Madrid. I will second the slow comment. I only weigh 200# and the scooter crawls. But it's still fun to ride...
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
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UTC quote
nielsen wrote:
Hi Simon: I know about the (very) limited speed of the Scooter and am fine with that. I have a wonderful old Norton 'Commando' to get quickly and entertainingly from 'A' to 'B'. Thus the speed doesn't matter, but to me authenticity does. That means that it has the right bits (obviously including engine) I presume that when you say it is not concourse, you mean that it appears gently used as opposed to 'right out of the box'. Yeah, I can't tell about the paint, but the inside of the panels (though not the interior of the tool box) are painted with what looks like red oxide primer, so I doubt if the outside paint is original. What is a fair price..... Anyone?
red oxide primer inside the panels is how they made them
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@nielsen avatar
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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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UTC quote
That's interesting about the red oxide primer. Thanks for that info. I just pumped the serial number for the scooter and its engine into the wonderful database at scooterhelp.com and it came up that both are 1954 models, not 1956 (which it is registered as being). Assuming that database is correct, this suggests two things to me: that the engine is the original (or at least from the same year), and that because engine and body number are both from the same year, that it is indeed a '54.
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@nielsen avatar
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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
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UTC quote
I have written to a few people who seem to know what they are talking about and the price-point I hear is $4-5,000 for this scooter. Does that sound about right?
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
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Location: west aus
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
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UTC quote
yes
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
The $4-5000 that you are hearing seems about right. It is a cautionary number because pictures do not show everything and having all the correct parts is paramount on something this old. I'm betting the seller wants more than that. Let us know what happens with this. It sure is a beautiful scooter. And it is almost as clean as one of Vader's scoots. Razz emoticon
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@nielsen avatar
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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
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UTC quote
You are correct: the seller wants considerably more than that as an asking price. I'm willing to pay a premium for it because the indicators are that it is a good scooter, but the premium must be within range of the realistic value here in North America. Thus I'm not too optimistic of this happening, but nothing ventured...... Meanwhile, I'm trying to build a good case for a reasonable value. I haven't made an offer yet, hoping to get as much expert advice/opinion before I do.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
imo, something such as this particular bike you can figure on dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of 5~7K

that being said... please don't buy this as your first vintage vespa. seriously. i know that you said you were prepared for how slow it is; but really, i don't think you fully comprehend how terribly impractical and notoriously dog-shit slow this bike is.

is it beautiful, yes.

but my gawd it's like riding a pogo stick on a steel wheeled roller skate.

and when shit breaks (which it will) parts can be a pain
and when said shit breaks (which it will) you'll need to work on it (or find somebody to work on it-- good luck there, buddy!) and you know what... working on handle bar bikes sucks. there's very little info on them, everything is fiddly and a pain in the ass to get just right. and guess what? if it's not just right... well, then it doesn't run right and it's a chore to ride. and then you park it in the garage and throw a sheet over it and forget about it until your old lady goes out there to get the extra diet cola and stubs her toe on it and yell at you to "sell that dammn thing already" or something like that and then you wonder why you ever wound up with this terribly impractical, albeit beautiful, piece of mechanical ire when the whole time you coulda had some thing that was a little more reliable, you coulda had something a little easier to work on, or maybe you coulda had something that had a little bit better part availability. you know kid, you coulda had something you could've been riding this whole time.

lookit kid, you coulda been a sprint, or a vbb, or a vna, or a rally or a px
kid, you coulda been riding this whole time...

all kidding aside, this is a collectors bike. this is something for somebody that has other, more practical bikes that they ride regularly and occasionally take this one to the brasserie to get some fucking crepes and a weak sauce bloodymary while dishing backhanded compliments to their brother-in-law who's getting lit up on the bottomless mimosas while the shit-head childrens run amok.

and really, nobody wants that. start looking for something else.

-g
@macgerk77 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Molto Verboso
@macgerk77 avatar
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UTC quote
That was really beautiful, man. Well stated. Clap emoticon
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Greasy, you ought to think about running for Congress. I told him that it would be very slow and is a piece of art. You laid it on the line in practical and hilarious terms that no one could argue with. I tip my hat, sir.
⚠️ Last edited by Tierney on UTC; edited 1 time
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@nielsen avatar
UTC

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'64 GS, '65 Lambretta Li 150, '74 Norton Commando
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@nielsen avatar
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UTC quote
That's what I love about forums: they are full of enthusiasts watching over the welfare of noobs like me--though it sometimes means we are rather punch-drunk from the experience! Much appreciated--and taken in the spirit it is offered.

I should perhaps qualify things by saying that as a 58 year old history professor specializing in modern European cultural history, that old Vespa is as much a cultural artifact to me as anything else. I'm also very interested in mid-century modern design, and what's better? Finally, I have the good fortune of decades of mechanical experience dealing with old sports cars, and latterly vintage motorcycles. Thus I have both the temperament, and inclination for this. I agree that this is not the best 'first' Vespa, but when something like this comes across your radar, and when you have every intention of getting a more practical vintage Vespa anyway, maybe one should pounce when opportunity knocks.

.......This may still have you saying 'give your head a shake', and perhaps you are absolutely correct, but at least you have a clearer sense of where I'm coming from.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
Holy cow, greasy. That post should be a wiki.

neilsen, sounds like you understand an oldie like the one you're looking at is going to be finicky and will take time and/or money to keep running, regardless of its condition. Greasy knows whereof he speaks and is just giving you a dose of reality. As long as you know what you're getting into, go for it. Sounds like you aren't looking for a daily rider anyway. Just be careful before dropping a lot of money as many nice looking scooters turn out to be truly horrible "restorations". Good luck.
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UTC

Ossessionato
ET2, PX150
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Location: Denver CO
 
Ossessionato
@nigelthefish avatar
ET2, PX150
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UTC quote
For most people I'd say a fender light is a bad idea but given your background and the fact that you know it's limitations and want it mostly because of the aesthetics I say go for it.

Last fender light I saw around here was about $8k but looked to be in a bit better shape.

Epic post mr greasy. Thumbs up.
@macgerk77 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Molto Verboso
@macgerk77 avatar
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UTC quote
nigelthefish wrote:
For most people I'd say a fender light is a bad idea
Real talk. If I owned one, i wouldn't have time for anything else, as I'd be spending all my time lurking near it with a shotgun, guarding against the possibility that somebody might breathe on it.
@mighty_triceratops avatar
UTC

Addicted
'79 P200
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Location: Chicago
 
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@mighty_triceratops avatar
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UTC quote
There is an exception to every rule. And I think this qualifies. If you keep up a commando as a dayly rider, your mechanical skills are up to task. Glad to hear you plan to get a more practical scoot as well. I would have someone verry familiar with these scoots check it out first though. OG paint and parts down to the screws make a big difference on price, as I'm sure you know.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.
@trumpyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
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Molto Verboso
@trumpyscooter avatar
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UTC quote
Just get it already
How many non asian bodges of these do you get to see?

Theres some sensible practical advice been said already, but the thing is with lovely collectibles is that if its too slow for you, it will always on sell. Sure, you may not make what you spent on it or you may make a bit more, but someone for some reason is willing to buy it off you.

I reckon its better to have had it already and not liked it so much than to wish you could have it and have not even tried it
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UTC

Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Molto Verboso
@macgerk77 avatar
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Location: PNW
UTC quote
Re: Just get it already
TrumpyScooter wrote:
I reckon that it's better to have had it already and not liked it so much, than to wish you could have it, having not even tried it.
Fixed! Whew emoticon
@trumpyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
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Molto Verboso
@trumpyscooter avatar
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
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UTC quote
lol

yeah thats what i meant
@macgerk77 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Location: PNW
 
Molto Verboso
@macgerk77 avatar
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Posts: 1916
Location: PNW
UTC quote
Well I gotta tip my hat to ya; it took me 30 minutes to unravel the tenses, lol.
3 terms of college-level writing, and sometimes I still don't does it right...
@scooterraton avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@scooterraton avatar
2 - Many
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Location: Boca Raton, Florida
UTC quote
Re: Just get it already
TrumpyScooter wrote:
I reckon that it's better to have had it already and not liked it so much, than to wish you could have it, having not even tried it.
Good point...and I have one of those. a beautiful rare scooter that I just had to have, still love...and I'm going to sell. It's too nice for me, I gotta ride em not just look at them. That's me...I'm hoping it goes to someone that appreciates it.
@filmworker avatar
UTC

Hooked
1962 VBB1
Joined: UTC
Posts: 214
Location: vancouver
 
Hooked
@filmworker avatar
1962 VBB1
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Posts: 214
Location: vancouver
UTC quote
I told you the same thing. But even if you become an expert at keeping this bike running you will never make it any faster. Trust me, YOU WILL NOT BE OK WITH THIS! Because, firstly you live in Abbotsford, so you will have to truck it in to Vancouver to ride with any other vintage scooterists. Secondly, once you get there, they will ooh and aah over your bike before leaving you in the dust. Why not get a bike that will allow you to become a better part of the vintage community. Come out and meet us. Most of us have been doing this a long time.

P.S. Try going over a bridge (or through a tunnel) on a 35mph bike.

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