Modern Vespa

Can't get it off. It's stuck on the axle. I was prepared for that, but everything I tried failed. This is an 18 months old GTS 300 with what looks like the factory tyres. It has run about 12,000 km and has been parking in the street ever since January. The stub looks very clean. No sign of corrosion.

I have tried several penetrating fluids including WD40 and the best anti-corrosion (according to one mechanic). I've also tried to lever it off and almost torn one of these two-armed bearing pullers. (Cheap junk that looks like a tool, but is in fact nothing more than a toy.)

I have used a blow torch to heat up the axle. I have tightened the nut again. I tapped it lightly with a metal hammer and forcefully with a rubber hammer.

So now I have tried all the tricks that I know except ice spray and using a proper gear puller, which will destroy the bearing. Any idea what I can try before I let the dealer take care of it?

Find suitable bits of hard wood, and wedge them very, very firmly between the bracket and the wheel each side of the axle. Spin the nut back on the axle so it's flush with the end, to protect the threads.

Get someone to brace the scooter, and bang the end of the axle with a large dead-weight hammer. A not-too-forceful blow with a large sledgehammer will do in a pinch.

Wiggle, wedge, repeat. It will come off.

Don't worry about the bearing - any doubt as to its condition - replace. They are cheap, but may need lots of heat and a press to remove/replace.

A dead-weight hammer? Is that the kind with sand in the head, so it doesn't bounce? Or do you mean a glide hammer (a.k.a. wanker). Sorry, I don't know the proper English names.

Yes - you want the maximum shock to the uncooperative bits. That'd be a slide hammer - and I can't see that being more useful in this instance than a sledgehammer.

No luck so far. It doesn't move one bit, almost as if it were soldered onto the shaft. I bought another chemical. This one freezes the shaft.

I managed to put a ding into it.

You need to wedge it above and below the axle. Now's the time to consider the bearing will have to be replaced - get a blow-torch and heat up the bearing, then use freezer spray on the axle. Then *put the axle nut back on to protect the axle end* and swing a 2kg hammer at it.

I found some wedges and shortened the hard wood, so that it sits on the rim and not on the tyre. Put some real tension on it.

My blow torch makes more than 700°C, so I was afraid to put the flame directly onto the bearing. The gas tank is just too near. I've tried the freezing spray again and hammered onto the nut, but it still didin't come loose.

I give up, before I do more damage. I wonder which garage to go to now - the one that sold this Vespa to its first owner and didn't grease the bearing or the one where the mechanic said, he wouldn't give away all his secrets, when I begged him for advice.

I've come across this problem several times when working on old classic cars. A very common issue is the steering wheel frozen to the steering shaft. An old mechanic showed me his "secret."

I use an air chisel with a pointed tip. Put outward pressure on wheel. Insert air chisel tip in axle hole. Make sure nut is protecting threads. Give it a few raps and "pop" goes the stuck bearing. No damage. Kind of works similar to loosing a frozen nut with an impact rattle gun.

I would wedge the wheel back up, put the nut on the shaft, and strike the nut with a steel hammer. The theory is some shock is good. Be really careful not to damage the shaft end.

Bill

Already tried that.

The air chisel is a good idea, but I have no electricity in my garage. I have a 15l portable compressed air tank, which I fill at home. It's good for blowing away dirt, but not much else. Maybe it can drive the chisel for a few seconds.

I have used a set of gear pullers. I have three in different sizes. They come apart so I was able to custom build one to suit the shape of the bracket. Jess once mentioned that a bit of force by holding the rear wheel and pushing the engine forward may also be helpful. I still need to try that next tire change.

Might mention another twist to this type of repair.... Get a bolt that fits into the axle hole. Drill a shallow hole in the center of the exposed head. Put a fender washer on the bolt and insert into axle. Put the chisel tip into the drilled hole and rap away.

I know some people that take this extra step because of the fear of possibly expanding the axle diameter. Personally, I've never damaged an axle shaft. But, just a note. Good luck.

I had the same problem with only 1800 miles on my GTS.Used a pry bar and put a piece of wood to shield the wheel, wacked it some with a hammer and it moved about 1/8 inch and then wouldn't budge. Put the pry bar on the right side of the bracket and wiggled it and the other side with my right hand and it finally came off after an hour of wiggling and prying. HOW DO I KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE. What a PITA.

I'm thinking I will be putting a smear of anti-seize copper grease on the bearing /shaft interface next time I take my wheel off...

Oh yes - clean everything up and make sure there's some anti-seize on there when it goes back together!

Buy the puller from ScooterWest works great and ruins nothing.

Takes too long to ship. I haven't found an air chisel, yet, so I will probably order that. I have built my own puller and I'm going to give it a try tomorrow.

I used a large Harbor Freight 3 jaw puller. I admit I have to put a large hose clamp around the 3 jaws to keep them on the bracket but it does work. Figure your going to replace the bearing

CRC manufactures a penetrant oil that freezes the exposed object and breaks the bond caused by corrosion. I've used this numerous times with positive results. This product can be found in any industrial supply house, and 1 can has lasted me years. I first found this product when removing the exhaust manifold from an automobile I was working on. I was about to twist the studs off when someone stopped me and sprayed them down with this product. Several minutes later, they just threaded off the studs as if they were were new. Before you get into beating and banging or using an air chisel, try a can of this. I think you will be amazed.

Is Permatex Anti-Seize lubricant the product to use. Reading on back it says not to use on high speed ball bearings , roller bearings or in gear boxes. Does that apply to this application? Definitely going to order the puller from Scooterwest.

okay. woah. stop.

you don't need an airhammer to make this happen. seriously. more than likely you're just gonna bungle the threads and wind up having to replace the axle.

considering that you've already reefed on it and tried wedging it the bearing is more than likely toast, so that being said it's time to get medieval on this MF'er

get a length of 2X4 (or some such wood) and brace it up against the bracket from the back side, in between the spokes of the rim, and then hit it with a BFH. repeat as necessary until bracket comes off.

replace bearing, dress down axle mating surface with green scotchbrite and apply a smear of grease so that it doesn't happen again.

best,
-greasy

^^^^^
Exactly. Consider the bearing as a sacrifice to the gods - they're cheap enough and found at any and every place that stocks bearings.

Willi B, specific American brands are not always easy to come by in Germany. However, I have bought a domestic freezing penetrant, which I guess is more or less the same formula.

It didn't work, but I'm pretty sure it has washed all the grease out of the bearing. I will report later, once I'm back from the garage.

Building on Greasy's idea, pushing through the spokes of the wheel is difficult because the brake disc is mostly in the way. Another approach might be to make a set of four narrowly tapered hardwood wedges. Place two on top of each other from opposite directions like you did with the wood pieces before. One set above, one set below the axle and as close to the axle as you can get. Tap the wedges in evenly against each other to put force between the wheel and the plate. The wedge method should allow the force to remain steady while you use hammers and penetrating oil on the shaft. Be careful not to apply too much pressure that you don't bend the plate or strip the bearing clip groove out of the rather soft aluminum plate. This method should not put impact loads on the gearbox cover and its internal pieces.

Bill

I found a T-shaped support for hanging pipes from the ceiling. I wanted something better, but this is all I found and the holes were the right size and at more or less the right distance. It was worth a try.

I re-used the yoke and spindle from the cheap gear puller and put a hat-nut (that's what we call them) on the axle.

Of course that didn't work. The steel was just too thin.

So I went and bought an L-shaped steel bar and drove to my parents' for some sawing and drilling.

Turns out the corrosion was much heavier than I thought.

This is what it looks like after a bit of cleaning. The bearing actually works well, but the seat is corroded, so I better not use it again.

Do you think I have to replace the axle?

Well done!

I'd use a new bearing, even if the old one 'feels' fine. The axle is OK, just needs cleaning up - I'd use some wire wool. You won't be forgetting the anti-seize on reassembly.

Great job! Your tool is factory quality!

Bill

Premium quality from Piaggio

Congrats & a 'well done'. A little ingenuity can go a long ways. Glad you solved the issue.

To wrap this up, my GTS is now equipped with Metzeler Feelfree Wintec tyres, which are fantastic compared to the old City Grips, which were very slippery. I can finally lean into corners.

I have also installed the Zelioni clutch bell. No more squealing and better control at slow speed.

Corrosion. Shit happens

I don't mean the corrosion. There is not enough material on the bearing seat. It works, but this is sub-standard IMO.

Funny how quickly we all become Piaggio engineers. Just an observation over 8 years.

That Zelioni clutch bell looks like a fine piece of engineering. It almost seems to nice to cover. I also goggled the tires. They look even better than my beloved Heidenau. You folks in Germany have some fantastic choices. As I get further into E Bikes I find even more examples of better German engineering. My new headlamp set is German and on order. The standard for bike lights is really quite good IMO. Worth adopting elsewhere.

I found this:

Is it common to have trouble removing the shock support?

Bill

First time was a bitch without the tool. Actually It was to difficult so I waited and the tool from scooterwest was the charm for me. The next time all went well thanks to anti seize compound. Another time I needed the tool but it came off mush easier than the first. I think the tool is worth it for the home shop. Nothing quite like working on a scoot with a lift and proper tools. JimC and the more experienced seem to do fine without. I'd say based on my experience as a learner here on MV tools are worth the expense. They kept me from buggering up my scoot. I'm finding the same thing with proper bike tools. The right tool for the job excels.

Some people can improvise, but I'm not one of them. I get best results with proper tools.

Tom, did you get a B+M headlight? They are the best. So bright and the beam goes exactly where you need it, with an extra bright spot for pot holes. Yet they don't blind other people and they take so little energy. I leave my headlight on all the time, even though I rarely ride at night.

No I didn't. I found a closeout price on a Cygo set for 1/3 the cost of a B&M headlight. After building two Ebikes with hub motors based on two brand new bikes I ran a little low on cash. I am going to find the right deal on a German standard StVZO light for the second bike. I need to sell a few more accessories from the Vespa first. Mother watches the wallet. No more hundred dollars bills in stash from side projects. The hardest part of retirement. Full financial disclosure. You folks certainly know how to engineer, and charge for it! My lithium battery pack has a USB port. I want the StVZO standard with a USB charger.

That's really nice coverage! The standard makes good sense. Sadly you're ebike limitations on power are so very low. Probably means less accidents, we seem to like the freedom to take more risks. Were there a national health plan I suspect we'd have some of the same standards.

I found a deal here http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp just after typing this. Ordered $60 is a steal!

"Ixon IQ without batteries or charger, 50 lux, Part # B&M192QM, Price: $ 60.00"