Sun, 11 May 2014 08:34:20 +0000

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GTV 250ie
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Location: Melbourne Australia
 
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GTV 250ie
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Location: Melbourne Australia
Sun, 11 May 2014 08:34:20 +0000 linkquote
Hi All,

After paying A$68 to learn how delicate the thermostat housing is I thought it would be interesting to section it to understand how it worked.

After changing out the water pump seal I followed the great YouTube instruction posted by ScooterWest on how to bleed the system. Unfortunately after buttoning up the bleed screw I had a very small leak coming out of the hole so I did my usual trick and turned it another 1/4 turn...bang goes $68 bucks.

Turns out the brass bleed screw will seat on a moulded (plastic) step in the thermostat housing. Over tighten it as I have and you destroy the seat and allow coolant to get into the hole just below the o-ring and it comes straight out the nipple. What looked like a very small leak could empty 500mm of coolant in about 4 hours.

The manual says tighten to 3nm. For those without a torque wrench that goes down that low, this is about finger tight + about 1/10th of a turn. This is not like a brake bleed screw that seals against an aluminum or steel seat, when I stuffed this one I got no real feel of resistance and I was using light two fingers of pressure on the spanner.

Hope this saves at least one person my fate. The good news is that it seems I wasn't the first one to make this mistake, when I rang the dealer he just laughed and fired back, "yeah mate, got plenty in stock"

Happy trails



Sun, 11 May 2014 08:56:03 +0000

Ossessionato
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
 
Ossessionato
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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Sun, 11 May 2014 08:56:03 +0000 linkquote
Nice piece of analysis. Thanks.
Sun, 11 May 2014 14:57:39 +0000

Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:47:58 +0000
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Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
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Sun, 11 May 2014 14:57:39 +0000 linkquote
Been there, done that.

Its a rite of passage.



R
⬆️    About 1y elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Mon, 29 Jun 2015 13:19:24 +0000

Member
Just bought myself a GTV250ie
Joined: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:35:23 +0000
Posts: 34
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
 
Member
Just bought myself a GTV250ie
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Posts: 34
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
Mon, 29 Jun 2015 13:19:24 +0000 linkquote
Re: Warning when bleeding the coolant system
Hooksta_V1 wrote:
Hi All,

After paying A$68 to learn how delicate the thermostat housing is I thought it would be interesting to section it to understand how it worked.

After changing out the water pump seal I followed the great YouTube instruction posted by ScooterWest on how to bleed the system. Unfortunately after buttoning up the bleed screw I had a very small leak coming out of the hole so I did my usual trick and turned it another 1/4 turn...bang goes $68 bucks.

Turns out the brass bleed screw will seat on a moulded (plastic) step in the thermostat housing. Over tighten it as I have and you destroy the seat and allow coolant to get into the hole just below the o-ring and it comes straight out the nipple. What looked like a very small leak could empty 500mm of coolant in about 4 hours.

The manual says tighten to 3nm. For those without a torque wrench that goes down that low, this is about finger tight + about 1/10th of a turn. This is not like a brake bleed screw that seals against an aluminum or steel seat, when I stuffed this one I got no real feel of resistance and I was using light two fingers of pressure on the spanner.

Hope this saves at least one person my fate. The good news is that it seems I wasn't the first one to make this mistake, when I rang the dealer he just laughed and fired back, "yeah mate, got plenty in stock"

Happy trails
Just did exactly the same thing too!

Thankyou for this visual explanation ... will i need to replace any gaskets or anything when changing this part?

Also, will I have to flush all the fresh coolant that I just put in, or will in not come gushing out when I remove the thermostat housing?
Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:41:28 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer (also gone), 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:30:36 +0000
Posts: 5580
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer (also gone), 2001 BMW R1100RT
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Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:41:28 +0000 linkquote
Thx for that. You in all likelihood saved me from doing the same.
Best
Miguel
Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:45:37 +0000

Ossessionato
2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
Joined: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:30:09 +0000
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Location: Canada
 
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Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:45:37 +0000 linkquote
The expansion tank is above the bleed screw. I think you will get draining if you remove the thermostat housing. If there's any chance there're bits of plastic in the cooling system, I would flush and replace. There's no coolant filter, and your water pump impeller is plastic (a water pump rebuild kit is $48 from SIP & I understand it's a difficult repair).
Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:27:48 +0000

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2010 GTS300 Super
Joined: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:44:55 +0000
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Location: Hillsboro, OR
 
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Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:34:41 +0000

Member
Just bought myself a GTV250ie
Joined: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:35:23 +0000
Posts: 34
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
 
Member
Just bought myself a GTV250ie
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Posts: 34
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:34:41 +0000 linkquote
WOW! At $150 I'd rather buy the OEM part and 'be carful' tightening the bleed nipple next time.
Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:58:24 +0000

Member
2010 GTS300 Super
Joined: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:44:55 +0000
Posts: 21
Location: Hillsboro, OR
 
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Location: Hillsboro, OR
Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:58:24 +0000 linkquote
Well, after tinkering with this I decided to make a quick fix instead of buying the housing.

The bleeding hole is perfect for a 4-40 thread so I made a thread in there and I'm fitting a stainless steel 4-40 screw with a tiny o-ring. The o-ring is spec'd to resist ethylene glycol and up to 400F.

Even if the o-ring breaks over time I'll just put teflon tape on the small screw.

There. I fixed it.
$2 if you have the tapping tool.



Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:26:32 +0000

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Location: Bay Area, California
 
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Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:26:32 +0000 linkquote
alpard78 wrote:
There. I fixed it.
$2 if you have the tapping tool.
Nice work!
Tue, 14 Jul 2015 04:56:58 +0000

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S150
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Location: Temecula, CA
 
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S150
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Location: Temecula, CA
Tue, 14 Jul 2015 04:56:58 +0000 linkquote
alpard78 wrote:
Well, after tinkering with this I decided to make a quick fix instead of buying the housing.

The bleeding hole is perfect for a 4-40 thread so I made a thread in there and I'm fitting a stainless steel 4-40 screw with a tiny o-ring. The o-ring is spec'd to resist ethylene glycol and up to 400F.

Even if the o-ring breaks over time I'll just put teflon tape on the small screw.

There. I fixed it.
$2 if you have the tapping tool.
Nice fix!!
Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:02:40 +0000

Addicted
2007 Vespa GTS250ie 2007 Buddy 125 Series Italia 2012 Ural Gear-Up
Joined: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 23:18:58 +0000
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Location: Woodland Hills, CA
 
Addicted
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Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:02:40 +0000 linkquote
"That's what Ivan would do." as they say over on the Ural site.
⬆️    About 3y elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sat, 27 Jan 2018 04:56:41 +0000

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2019 GTS300 Notte & 2012 GTS300 Mid Blue
Joined: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:21:04 +0000
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Location: Los Angeles
 
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Sat, 27 Jan 2018 04:56:41 +0000 linkquote
Anyone know where to currently get one of these?
Seems like they are NLA everywhere that I have looked.
⬆️    About 5w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:14:41 +0000

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GTS 250 ie
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Location: Gozo, Malta
 
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Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:14:41 +0000 linkquote
Going to try this, seems like one of the best solutions out there. Buying a new housing is only going to postpone trouble the next flush. Bought the tapping tool (EUR2.80) and got the bolt and the rubber ring free
⬆️    About 1y elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:23:24 +0000

Hooked
GTS 250
Joined: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:42:40 +0000
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Location: California
 
Hooked
GTS 250
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Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:23:24 +0000 linkquote
Another method to solve the bleeder screw issue is to use a Stahlbus (or similar) brake bleeder screw/valve.

https://www.stahlbus-us.com/bleeding-brakes/bremse-entlueften-bleeder-valve/conical-sealing-standardtype/

Sat, 22 Dec 2018 19:15:58 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
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Sat, 22 Dec 2018 19:15:58 +0000 linkquote
Dudematters wrote:
Going to try this, seems like one of the best solutions out there. Buying a new housing is only going to postpone trouble the next flush. Bought the tapping tool (EUR2.80) and got the bolt and the rubber ring free
Not if you don't over tighten the bleed screw. This doesn't seem to be a big problem that gets posted about regularly.
Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:07:20 +0000

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GTS 300
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Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:07:20 +0000 linkquote
Re: Warning when bleeding the coolant system
Hooksta_V1 wrote:
Hi All,



The manual says tighten to 3nm.

Happy trails
It can't be 3 Nm's it must be 3 Cnm.
Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:25:20 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:25:20 +0000 linkquote
Re: Warning when bleeding the coolant system
rajron wrote:
Hooksta_V1 wrote:
Hi All,



The manual says tighten to 3nm.

Happy trails
It can't be 3 Nm's it must be 3 Cnm.
Hold the ratchet from the head with one hand and get it as tight as that lets you
Sun, 23 Dec 2018 00:15:06 +0000

Hooked
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Sun, 23 Dec 2018 00:15:06 +0000 linkquote
Thanks for the tip and YES this will help many that just read this
Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:46:43 +0000

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Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:46:43 +0000 linkquote
Re: Warning when bleeding the coolant system
WEB-Tech wrote:
Hold the ratchet from the head with one hand and get it as tight as that lets you
Sorry, have gorilla hands. I could probably get 20 ft.-lbs. using that technique.

Tapping and adding the screw may seem like a good idea, but you have just added another failure point to the machine. Fine to get you by until you actually fix it, I suppose.

Don't mean to be mean, but when you are screwing a metal piece into a plastic piece, should be pretty obvious to take it easy on the torque.

Or maybe that is the voice of experience talking, as I have, no doubt, made a similar mistake myself in the past.
Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:40:34 +0000

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
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Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
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Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:40:34 +0000 linkquote
The Vespa part is just plain cheesy. Why should we have to go through these efforts for something as simple as this item?
Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:43:22 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:00:49 +0000
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:43:22 +0000 linkquote
SCTLVR wrote:
The Vespa part is just plain cheesy. Why should we have to go through these efforts for something as simple as this item?
Actually the whole point is avoiding effort. Too much of that is what causes the damage.
Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:49:03 +0000

Hooked
GTS 250
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Location: California
Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:49:03 +0000 linkquote
Looks like Piaggio has recognized that this is actually a problem. The new 2019 300 HPE motor has an aluminum thermostat housing.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMicX9f0_OBMkr19zIWyXZ2NVsFG8CkpDWITSXEwNBrZPZoJDbPK5zO2LTrM5qhNA/photo/AF1QipNFR_9IM0rim7KVKhck1b1KrHgY9-XVJjwI4UqZ?key=UzNDTHl3TnJZZjhHYVU2UGlfSFB5TjBUNGotaGpn
Wed, 26 Dec 2018 00:29:23 +0000

Hooked
2015 GTS 300 ABS, 2013 LXV 150 (R.I.P.)
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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 00:29:23 +0000 linkquote
Oh nice! Thanks for he heads up! Just about to do mine.
⬆️    About 1y elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Fri, 21 Feb 2020 05:08:00 +0000

Hooked
GTS 250
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Posts: 344
Location: California
 
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Sat, 22 Feb 2020 01:04:46 +0000

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Piaggio BV 250
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Posts: 42
Location: Brazil
 
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Piaggio BV 250
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Location: Brazil
Sat, 22 Feb 2020 01:04:46 +0000 linkquote
I still wonder why my BV 250 doesn't have the bleeder. And as far as I researched, is not possible to just change the thermostat housing. I have a blown head gasket and I've been researching how to bleed the coolant system without the bleeder.
Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:45:57 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10039
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
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Posts: 10039
Location: KS USA
Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:45:57 +0000 linkquote
8)
Tue, 25 Feb 2020 15:30:38 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:48:57 +0000
Posts: 8783
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:48:57 +0000
Posts: 8783
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue, 25 Feb 2020 15:30:38 +0000 linkquote
Change the thermostat too and bleed it from the thermostat housing. Just loosen the bolts a little.
Wed, 26 Feb 2020 15:12:29 +0000

Member
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 00:35:45 +0000
Posts: 42
Location: Brazil
 
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Piaggio BV 250
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Posts: 42
Location: Brazil
Wed, 26 Feb 2020 15:12:29 +0000 linkquote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Change the thermostat too and bleed it from the thermostat housing. Just loosen the bolts a little.
Thanks for this! I'll give it a try. Just wondering if it will works since in the BV 250 the hose does go up after the housing. So most upward place for the bubbles to stay would be inside the hose. But piano piano it will work.
   

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