Modern Vespa

Hello ALL! First let me introduce "us". This weekend I purchased a 2009 Vespa GTS250ie for my girlfriend Jenny to ride. I will also ride it from time to time but it's mainly so Jenny can ride along with me when I ride my Suzuki Vstrom DL650. Jenny is new to riding and is learning on the scooter.

We got the scooter used from a local dealer. There was one known issue. The odometer read 350 miles but the title says 4500 miles and says there is an odometer discrepancy. The dealer said that he honestly believes based on the condition of the scooter that it truely does have 350 miles as the odometer says but that it could have more based on the title. He said most likely when it changed hands in the past someone wrote the wrong number on the title and figured they would have surpassed the 4500 miles by the time they sold it and didnt but he obviously couldnt guarantee it had 350 miles. It had brand new looking Pirelli tires that looked like they had around 300 miles on them, so asuming those are the tires that come with the scooter, they help confirm that story.

So my first question is if messing with the odometer is easy on these Vespa GTS250's? Is this something that is common? Is there a specific part in the bike that sometimes needs replacement that would change the odomter back to zero?

The scooter drives great and I really love it. It turns out it has a custom baby blue paint job. That explains why I wasnt able to find a picture of it while searching around. I realized it was originally red after finding some hidden spots that werent fully painted. The paint job was done very professionally though.

The 2nd issue we had was that after riding it in the parking lot with my girlfriend learning how to control the throttle it started to STINK. It smelled like maybe mold or mildew.. THe dealer admitted that it was sitting in their moist basement all winter, I assume some mildrew grew somewhere and caused the stink. It seemed to go away after I drove it all day however. So my 2nd question would be if this is something to be concerned about at all, or just normal and nothing to worry about? The scooter had gotten a little warm (temp gauge was 1 bar over normal) due to my gf stopping and going in the parking lot and probably not enough air moving over the radiator. As a matter of fact, I think the smell started when the radiator fan kicked on for the first time.

The next issue we had is that I noticed on the ride home that the high beam dash light was off. I then confirmed the high beam light was off completely along with the low beam. I figured the bulb was blown. Fast forward to when we need gas (bad) and we were unable to open the saddle to get to the gas tank! I found the emergency mechanical release but it doesnt work! I hear it making a little bit of noise in the back (so the cable isnt broke I guess) but its not actually moving the actuator release at all.

So my 3rd question is if there is any suggestions on how to find the issue with the emergency seat release and fix it?

After the manual release wasnt working I started to get worried (we didnt get a manual with it). I started checking the fuses. Turns out the 15 amp fuse for the head light and the seat release was blown. I replaced it and we were able to get the seat to pop! Luckily were able to get the gas tank filledc.

My 4th question is if this is something to be concerned about? I know fuses usually blow for a reason. Could this be some kind of electrical issue to worry about? Is there anything to check? Is this normal at all? I will keep spare fuses on the scooter but if it keeps blowing then I would be concerned the scooter has a problem.

My next question was answered by someone who was helping me pick out a scooter on reddit. I said after we shut it down, 15 min later we heard a random buzzing coming from the rear of the scooter every few seconds. It went away after I started it, and we heard it again eventually later when it was off again but only a few times and less often. The guy on reddit said this is normal and is the carbon canister activating to remove fuel vapors. So I guess there is no issue here.

Next thing I noticed is that when I pull the rear brake when sitting at a stop, that the scooter shakes and vibrates a lot more than normal. It doesnt seem like a problem (brakes work great and engine doesnt stall) but it doesnt do it when I pull the front brake. I want to make sure this is normal. The mechanic at the used bike dealer said it was normal on scooters with larger engines, he said something about the automatic clutch causing it. Is this in fact normal?

Lastly, we only got a single key (red/brown color) thank god the manual says this is the master key. (LUCKY here). I am going to get a replacement key I found a couple places that sell them: http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/vespachipkey.html and http://www.allmotorcyclekeys.com/proddetail.php?prod=GT15RDT5 but the latter says you must get it cloned (cant be programmed) but the former says it can be cloned or programmed. ANyone have experience with either of these keys? I was going to get the one that can be programmed so I can do it myself on the scooter. I was also going to check the local vespa dealer to see what they charge. We did NOT get the code card that comes with the scooter though but based on my research on this forum, it doesnt seem like it will be an issue.

THANKS much everyone for reading and helping! It's exciting to join the ranks of Vespa owners!

Welcome,

So many questions, I'll answer one and let the others for MV addicts
Key : buy a blank blue key, get it cut, and you can activate it yourself as you have the red key. procédure in the wiki

Hi there and welcome! I can say that as a long time lurker and a new poster, there is a lot of wisdom and experience among the participants here. Let me answer one of your questions and defer the rest to the experts: Yes, what you describe is normal. It can be a bit disconcerting at first but it is nothing to worry about. What constitutes "a lot" though is relative. My GT200 does not shake and vibrate a lot but there is a vibration when the rear brake is applied at a full stop. At this point in time I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

There is also a shake and vibration that can happen when accelerating from a stop that has plagued some bikes. More on this can be found in the wiki.

Thank you! I already ordered a replacement blue key this morning and should have it soon.

Thanks that is good to know. I will also check out the wiki, sounds like it has a lot of good info. I am totally new to scooters and this forum, learning as I go

I originally planned on buying this scooter for just my girlfriend to ride and figured I would never ride it since I have my own motorcycle but after riding it for a day I think I will be riding it quite a bit! It's really a lot of fun to ride, its a more relaxing ride of sorts, it's something different!

to MV from the Sunny Aegean!

If the "mildew odor" never returns, then it is a non-issue. Could very well be as the dealer stated.

Fuses do, indeed, occasionally "blow" for unidentifiable reasons. Fuses blow repetitively for real reasons. Ocam's razor would suggest you simply wait and see if it's repetitive before doing anything.

One reason for the smell could be a mouse nest somewhere near the radiator. Seriously, this has happened in cars and scooters that have been standing for some time! A repaint job on a bike so new suggests the possibility that the bike has had a fall. Just a thought. Otherwise, I wish you well with it and welcome to the Vespa community!

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I will do exactly that, see if it returns. The fuse blew after a hard "almost fall" when my girlfriend gunned it by accident then slammed on the brakes and turned the wheel and she caught it from falling and I grabbed it hard also, maybe that strong jolt caused it. If it continues happening then I guess then I will need dig deeper.

WOW, I didnt even think of that! gross!

I will take the panels off that exposes the radiators (i think its just 1 screw on each side) and make sure it looks clean in there! If i find nasty stuff growing in there is it safe to spray water in there with a garden hose to clean it out?

I also had the same thought about a possible fall. my girlfriend is convinced the owner just wanted something different though LOL. She says why else would they repaint the entire thing and not just get already color matched plastics for much cheaper. It looks like it had a soft fall at one point as there are some minor scratches on the back of the mirror and the bar end but doesnt look like anything major. if it did have a hard fall then it seems they did a good job of repairing it.

PS. I paid $2700 for the scooter, $3070 out the door (with 7% tax, dealer fees). I thought this was a great price if the mileage was truely 350 miles and a fair price if the miles were in fact 4500 miles (like the title says). Do you guys agree on that assesment?

It sounds like fair price whether 350 or 4500 miles. I'm assuming you never received any service documentation. It may be wise to have the engine oil changed if the dealer hasn't already done so.

Cheers,

Bob

You really should not have had that many problems especially if you bought it from a dealer. It should have been good to go. Maybe take it back for first service and tell them of what you listed here. See if they will compensate you for the free service. Then ride safe and enjoy it. It will give you and your girlfrlreind lots of joy. once things are worked out.

Yeah I agree completely! What really pissed me off is the dealer charged a $100 detail fee which was supposed to cover them cleaning up the bike and going over it to make sure its clean and working right (check fluids, etc)

I honestly dont think they will do anything though, the guy made it pretty clear that beyond power train issues in the first 30 days, I am on my own.

Yes, I was told that Vespa keeps online service records for service done at authorized service centers. I am going to go to my local vespa dealer and request they pull that info and print it out for me, I bought my vstrom there so they might be nice and do it for me.

The dealer said all they do is check the fluids and make sure they are all at the correct level, they dont change them, so I agree, an oil change seems like a good idea. I have been trying to find the correct oil filter to order but ODDLY it does not say the filter type/model in either the manual OR the factory service manual, strange. I assume any 5w-40 synthentic JASO MA oil will work?

Also, should I do the rear hub oil or just check its level?

I tried to find if it used auto transmission fluid but couldnt find any info on it. I assume the rear hub oil or the engine oil also lubes the auto transmission?

I also was considering having the coolant system flushed since the bike is now 5 years old and probably never had it done. Perhaps I can test the coolant and see if its still good.

The 'stink' may just have been the exhaust burning off debris - new exhausts 'smell' for the first few hundred miles anyway, which may also point to the odometer mileage being correct. The only way to fiddle with the odo is to turn the mechanical speedo cable that runs from the front wheel into the speedo - and I can't see anyone being bothered to do that.

Keep some spare 15A fuses.

The mechanical seat release is a very simple cable affair - follow the cables and see what is amiss.

The extra vibration when the rear brake is applied is down to the rear suspension being locked by the brake, and changing the resonant frequency of the unsprung weight of the engine/transmission.
FAQ: Why does the engine sound different with the brakes on?

The 'mooing':
FAQ: Why does my GTS groan/moan/moo or fart when off?

Keys - yes, there are two types. There's the OEM type with a fixed RFID that needs to be programmed into the ECU, and a type that can have the RFID programmed (cloned). If I was you, I'd get one of the former from a dealer, get it cut, and program the ECU. With that working, I'd send jimh (of this forum) the brown Master key, and have that cloned. Excellent service.
https://www.allmotorcyclekeys.com/

We've copies of the manuals (parts, circuit diagram, workshop etc) available:
Workshop Manuals

Just let her enjoy it until there is a legitimate reason not to do so. So far, there really isn't such a reason, at least based on my viewpoint and experience. If you spend all your time looking for "problems", odds are you will possibly have invent or over blow some so as to not have wasted all your time.

This is correct and you should find a record of the 600 mile (1000 km) service if it received one as well as any warranty repairs.

Aloha and welcome to the forum form Hawaii. The gang has you covered. Since Jenny is new to riding a set of crash bars might be a good thing. Even if you've been riding forever their good. Since it's a metal mono body it gets expensive to keep it looking good (if that's what your planning on). I swear because their Italian they do things to annoy us and get attention. Don't get nervous over every little thing. They come and go. Have fun. Got any pics of the new scooter.?

Thanks, I didnt know they made crash bars for it. I will have to search around for them as that would be a great idea for Jenny to learn with so she is less worried about dropping it.

I also want to get her a side stand, the side stand that came on the scooter (I think they all come with a side stand and a center stand?) is missing. I found one from scooterworks usa and plan on ordering it. I am worried she is going to have trouble using the center stand every single time she gets on and off the scooter. Even I was annoyed by it.

I also was considering getting her a windscreen. The scooter is fast enough for light highway use but the wind is pretty extreme, worse than a naked bike imo. I thought a small windscreen might reduce the wind buffeting.

Thanks!

Thanks, I have a spare key in the mail, it's the type that needs to be cut and then programmed into the ECU as you recommended. Once I get it working I will get the brown/red key cloned, that is a good idea. I spoke with Jimh via email and told him I had concerns mailing the master key due to the risk of it getting lost in the mail. He said that has never happened but with my luck I would be the first one. If the brown key is lost, I assume its a major affair? Must the ECU be replaced?

As far as the stink, it is completely gone. It must have been something in the exhaust or growing in the radiator that got burned off. It had a little bit of a menthol smell, but a really nasty menthol smell lol.

Unfortunately, the 15Amp fuse blew AGAIN. So far it has blown every time I have rode the bike. Each time I believe I had the high beams on (i ride with high beams on during the day usually), so I am going to try to keep the high beams off completely and see if it still blows. Hopefully its not a short some where in the system. My concern is that when they painted it they pinched a wire when putting it all back together.

Lastly, I found the issue with the mechanic emergency release for the seat. The cable is fine but there seems to be something missing where the cable goes into the lock. The cable just moves in the lock when you pull the lever. At first it looked like I just needed to tighten a flat head screw to pinch down the cable on the lock. I grabbed a flat head screwdriver and was really confused when the screwdriver went all the way through the "screw" and hit the wire. This is when I realized it's not a screw and something must be missing that goes in that slot. Can anyone help me on what is supposed to be there? I went to the dealer and they did not have a part diagram of the lock with the missing part, the dealer basically said I would have to buy the entire lock mechanism to get the missing part which is obviously crazy so I am hoping there is another solution. I can take a picture if needed.

Thanks again!

Is this what you mean by crash bars?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JO6896/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1P1C576BB3C1V
Also found these:

http://www.amazon.com/Scooter-Protectors-Vespa-GTS250-GTS300/dp/B003JO4C0I/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A1P1C576BB3C1V

Also found these which are a bit cheaper:

http://www.amazon.com/Scooter-Protectors-Vespa-GTS250-GTS300/dp/B003JO693G/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A1P1C576BB3C1V


these ones cost more but have an extra bar it seems like, maybe gives added protection?

Yes. The OEM ones are the easiest i think to put on tho. Check around. Faco is another brand. OEM ones are an easy fit. I don't have them so somebody who has put them on will reply.I love my SS. People don't like them on here but if you use common sense they work fine. Just make sure your on level ground and the asphalt isn't hot etc. I have a friend who has one on his GT and never uses the center stand. Never had a problem. Good luck

Thanks, I will wait to hear from someone who has installed them. I prefer to get one from Amazon as I have amazon gift cards, it seems the OEM is not available there. Only the prima, faco and the other i forget the brand.

I ended up ordering the Faco cowl protectors, they seemed to offer a little bit more protection than the other 2 on amazon, although they also cost a lot more ($150 vs $100 vs $65). I found a post on here that someone had the Prima's (the $100 ones) and that they cut their coolant hose when they laid the scooter over and needed the metal bracket bent to avoid that when being installed. That turned me off to the Prima ones as I dont want to mess with bending anything.

I also ordered Jenny a windscreen for the scooter, it's smoke prima one and I think should help direct some of the wind up and over her while riding: http://www.scooterworks.com/prima-windscreen--short--smoked---vespa-lx-gt-gts-products-398.php

my only concern with the windscreen is that it requires being hammered in to the mounts on the handlebars based on the instructions, this doesnt sound too removable if I decide I dont want the windscreen down the road!!

Lastly I ordered this side stand: http://www.scooterworks.com/sidestand-assembly--vespa-gt200-gts250-gts300-products-6721.php?page_id=101

Jenny really needs a side stand for when she is quickly getting off the scooter for a few moments. We will still use the center stand when parking over night or in a rough surfaced area, but the side stand really is nice to have IMO.

We also got the blue key we ordered today, so I will be getting that cut tomorrow and programming it to the ECU so we dont have to keep riding around with the master key with no spares.

Sounds like you're well on your way to getting the scoot customized for her. After you get the blue key cut and programmed, I suggest that you send JimH your brown/red master key by registered mail for an insured value of $1,000 (or whatever the cost you need to replace it and all the components+labor, varies by model). He can clone the key and keep a record of it, should you lose it, and you can have him send you a duplicate should the occasion arise.

I can't tell you how many owners lose that key, but it's a lot of them. I have a hard time finding sellers who still have their master key because either they lost it or the prior owner did. I try to explain how this hurts the resale value, but they don't realize it until their scooter goes unsold for months because they're expecting full price for damaged goods. A missing master key is damage, as far as I concerned because it doesn't provide the OEM function as designed, despite the ability to have blue keys cloned. There's no chance I'd by a scooter without a master key unless it was heavily discounted. Having to pay more than $1,000 plus towing to have a scooter repaired if the only key is lost is unacceptable to me.

Well since you fairly close to where Jimh is why not take a weekend ride up to see him.

Someplace in NJ to Camden, Maine. That is what I like to see, an adventurous spirit for scooter trips.

Thanks, that is a good idea. I like the idea about insuring it for $1000 too. I was wondering what it costs if you lose the brown/red key and I figued it must be up there because I am assuming the ECU must be replaced.

I got really lucky when I bought it that they provided a red/brown master key. I had no idea until after I bought it that the red/brown key is the master key and cant be replaced easily. If they would have given me just a blue I would have had no idea what that meant.

It's great he can keep a record of the key as if he doesnt send it back with $1000 insurance and it's lost, it wont matter since he can just send another!

if he is in fact in Maine, that is quite the trip from NJ. Especially on a scooter, it would be near impossible. I wouldnt want to ride the scooter on Rt95 and that is what the trip mostly would involve.

It's even too far for me to ride there on my vstrom, Maine is like 8 to 10 hours away I think. I think I will let USPS or UPS ride it up there for me

New paint, 350 miles on the odometer, 4500 miles on the tiitle, dealer knows nothing about the history of the bike, it appears to have electrical issues, and the price from a Dealer is lower than what you would expect to pay a private party. Sounds like a bike with a very interesting history.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts. At least it seems good mechanically and runs great other than the electrical issue.

I am starting to think the electrical issue may just be that someone installed a head light bulb that is too high wattage for what the bike can handle. Its starting to seem the fuse only blows when on high beam.

Can this bike handle a 55/65 watt head light bulb?

I wanted to do a good maintenance on the scooter.

Especially clean the air filter and do the engine oil.

The manual says to use air filter mineral oil plus additives and mix it with 50% gasoline? Do you really need to mix in 50% gasoline? That will be kind of a messy PITA.

Also is this the correct filter oil?

http://www.amazon.com/Uni-Foam-Filter-Oil-Aerosol/dp/B0022ZN68Y/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1400838240&sr=8-7&keywords=air+filter+oil

HI and welcome to the forum, you will find all your answers here and more, plenty of experts !!
I had a similar issue with my Vespa when I first bought it that the odometer showed an extremely low mileage in relation to the age of the scoot. As I bought it privately I decided that I should probably not trust the odometer completely and so I performed all the 1000km service interval tasks myself as I would them know for sure what was done.

Download the owners manual and perform all the first service tasks, but in general I would:
-Replace the engine oil & filter
-Replace the hub oil
-replace the spark plug
-fit new headlight bulb
-Remove and clean the air filter sponge
-check the brake fluid level
-Check the coolant level and condition

p.s You should have not have to hammer any windshield home to mount it !! there are mounting bolts that thread into sockets underneath the steering cowling, using a spanner (wrench). hence, it can be removed again at will.

Hi! Thanks for the reply.

Regarding the windscreen.

This manual says hammer, doesnt mention threading. I checked the holes on the handlebar, they arent threaded

http://www.scooterworks.com/filebin/images/instructions/Windshield_Install_Guide.pdf

Yes that is my plan too. I am having trouble finding the recommended fluids though. I cant find AGIP or the other fluids they recommend in the USA so far. Did you use USA available alternatives?

I also cant find the info for the oil filter in either the manual or service manual! odd.

We got a nail in the tire already!

Tiny miniature nail in the rear tire. Its a micro leak but needs to be patched. Its brand new tire so I am going to patch it. The nail is tiny enough I think its very safe.

The thing is, it looks really pita to remove the rear tire! Is it as hard as it looks? I dont want some tire repair shop messing up the scooter trying to get the rear wheel off.

my local motorcycle dealer wont patch tires ever.

It is an additional amp of draw, so apparently not.

It is an H4, if I remember correctly, and a good replacement is:

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Eco-Vision-Longlife-Pair/dp/B007OYVNHO/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1400857129&sr=1-2&keywords=ecovision+H4

as they draw less than the rated amount for the same light.

Awesome,glad you got the crash bars. If you send JimH your key you should have it back in a few days. I go thru Camden every year to meet friends up in Cutler when i go back east. Maybe this year i'll get to meet him. I stop at his coffee shop but he's always doing something. We've talked and he's the greatest guy. My key only took a week. That was me sending it and him cutting it and sending it back. I live farther away also. Yes it's a trip from NJ. Bad ass traffic to get up to Maine. You can put some Ride On in the tires. Not like slime. It does work. I can't use it now because i have TPS system (Tire Pressure System) on my tires and it supposedly gives you wrong readings. Sounds like your getting the scooter dialed in. Pics when your done please.

Headlight:
55/65W is fine for the headlight. You may have a chafed high-beam wire from the switch to the lamp, or the lamp or socket is faulty.

Oil:
Any oil that meets the spec. is fine - don't worry about the manufacturer. Many here including myself use Rotella T6 for the engine oil, readily available even in Walmart.

Air filter:
Easiest way to clean is to use a zip-lock bag. Put the filter in, pour in a cup of petrol, then squish a bit. Pour out mucky petrol. Pour in a small amount of engine oil plus the same amount of petrol, squish, remove filter, squeeze out excess, allow petrol to evaporate, filter now ready for use.

Screen:
The Faco screen is a bit of a bitch in the mounting department. Best to bend the tangs on the cylinders in so they *doesn't* have to be hammered in. Then removal will be far easier - and you will need to remove it from time to time.

Sorry, what is an additional amp of draw? A 55/65 watt bulb? Basically my line of thought was someone put a 55/65 bulb in when it was supposed to be like a 45/55 bulb which is why the fuse only blows when high beam is on. (55 watt being ok, 65 being not).

I wanted to confirm that before I waste time trying to replace the bulb since replacing the bulb seems like a bit of a pain.

Luckily the local dealer has a guy who loves vespa's and is going to help me out with patching it. He said the only problem is he must make the hole larger in order to patch it. I was under the impression they patched it with a patch and glue from the inside but he said they use a mushroom plug or something like that.

Regarding the TPS sensors you have, do you have the Scorpio RIDE system? I wouldnt put in slime or another type liquid either. I used them on my old car which had TPS and although the liquid said on the can it was safe for TPS systems it ruined it.

Here is a picture of the scooter as it is now: http://i.imgur.com/RQIBiuM.png

Once I get this new key working I will be shipping off the master to get cloned