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UTC quote
Personally the only thing I find offensive are people who get offended about every little thing.

I was riding through the town square a couple of days ago. 2 lane, one way road..... a woman behind me in a convertible kept tail-gating me. Whenever we stopped I could see her TEXTING. I had cars in front of me and to the right of me... speed limit 35 and 25 over the 1 mile trip.
I had to slow for turning vehicles in front of me.

Finally when I slowed for a left turn I looked in the mirror and saw her looking down, then she slammed on the brakes as she almost hit me. She proceeded to yell at me and then passed me and flipped me off.

My first instinct was to chase her down and yell a little myself, which I did, until I thought better of it and how dangerous it was for me.

I really wish I had gotten the license number. My short card would have read..... Please don't text and drive or get behind the wheel when you have PMS. I really don't care who I offend when my life is at stake.

Afterwards I got to thinking about whether I really wanted my GTS. Was it worth it for the danger involved.

The next day I rode again and really enjoyed myself out of the traffic. I really do enjoy riding my Vespa. I try to stay very alert.

Today I'm taking a longer drive in more traffic. Wish me luck and maybe say a prayer Today I will have the camera on my phone rolling. I'm thinking about a Go Pro to face front and one to face the rear just for evidence in the future.

Sorry for the long rant. And Ladies, I would have had an equally offensive comment for a Male driver so don't think I'm singling out Women drivers here.
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UTC quote
Nothing wrong with it at all, Belk, but I'm afraid we are barking up the wrong tree. We need to ask for and follow up on police enforcement of existing laws, especially regarding PTWs. When driving, I'm super respectful around PTWs because I get it. Sadly, unless you're a PTW rider, you most likely don't understand our vulnerability.

Judy is right, all driving licenses should include PTW awareness and laws regarding them, to include "taking up" parking, following too closely, etc. If the police could enforce the little things consistently (passing, lane discipline, turn signal use, actually stopping at a stop sign), I bet that we would all be safer on the roads.
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UTC quote
A texting bomb?
The over the shoulder toss? The forward zinger? Hmmm .... I know, I know. No violence. Just makes me feel better thinking about it.
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Wit is wasted on some people unfortunately,I thought it was funny 8)

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I think....
Unfortunately, i've found lots of people who don't ride PTW's really don't care about people who do.

Goes back to a culture of "I don't Care, i'm gonna get mine"...attitude in our society.

Civility and patience is all to fleeting in our current times.

As long as i'm on my Vespa I know that i'm a target and I try to stay as Zen as I can for as long as I can.

I tell my (once Fiance, now Wife), against a Car or a Truck you can never win that fight when you are riding on a scoot, so why even get upset about it. If they're assholes, let them be assholes and let them be on their way, just be cautious.
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UTC quote
tomjasz wrote:
Try it on a 20MPH bicycle. Even scooterists turn into dick heads. There's a fucking pecking order. If one more 5'6" guy climbs out of a monster truck screaming about his right of way I might just beat the little bitch with my cane. Sheesh!
Thread response winner!
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Belk,

I think you created a good opportunity for dialog and education. You may not be able to convince the idiot who tried to run you over, but hopefully you can convince one of your circle not to be that person. Even if you only get one person to change, you've made a difference.

Carry on!
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From a different perspective.

I see (and experience) more "bad" actions from two-wheeled road users than I do from cagers.


In New Zealand we have a road safety campaign that basically says..."everyone can make a mistake".

It communicates the situation and the consequences by showing both sides of a near miss potential accident.

Its about tolerance and alertness in the same message.


If you want to ride a scooter / bike...be prepared and accept that you are not wrapped in cotton wool and steel is stonger than skin and bone.

Keep clear and confronting drivers wont help you.
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UTC quote
Just to make it clear, there is no card, there never was a card. It was basically a joke. Or a way to get people to think.

I don't confront nasty drivers, I merely get out of their way.

It was strictly a fantasy idea I posted on FB.

But the responses are far more interesting over here.

My favorite is the THINK! video. I love the lights and the idea that we are just people and if you met us, you might like us.

Carry on.

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UTC quote
Shooter wrote:
From a different perspective.

I see (and experience) more "bad" actions from two-wheeled road users than I do from cagers.


In New Zealand we have a road safety campaign that basically says..."everyone can make a mistake".

It communicates the situation and the consequences by showing both sides of a near miss potential accident.

Its about tolerance and alertness in the same message.


If you want to ride a scooter / bike...be prepared and accept that you are not wrapped in cotton wool and steel is stonger than skin and bone.

Keep clear and confronting drivers wont help you.
Sounds like a good plan. I'm not sure what part of New Zealand you are from, but I know when I was driving around down there I rarely saw another car unless I was in a town, and then still not many. I think I saw more sheep than people too.

Before I go on, gotta tell you I just love it down there in NZ. Beautiful place and really nice people!

I was at the DMV a couple of days ago renewing my license. During the hour wait, I was watching people take what was supposed to be a driving test (auto). What a total JOKE. The people aren't even taken on the road for the test any more. They practice backing up and making stops in the parking lot.

I'm only 48, but I remember as a kid learning hand signals when riding my bike and when I was 16 and took my driving test it was a real road/highway test and parallel parking.


I think most people would agree that not being confrontational is a good idea, but voicing it here is a good release, and in a country (the U.S.) where most people/schools don't teach their kids common courtesy and respect.... I think it's a lost cause. It seems like every man for themselves and no one else matters. It's a shame.

I think a great solution would be that when you go for your license, after your written test and a real driving test you should have to find the United States on a map before you get your license. I think there would be a lot less people on the road if that happened.
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UTC quote
Shooter wrote:
From a different perspective.

I see (and experience) more "bad" actions from two-wheeled road users than I do from cagers.


In New Zealand we have a road safety campaign that basically says..."everyone can make a mistake".

It communicates the situation and the consequences by showing both sides of a near miss potential accident.

Its about tolerance and alertness in the same message.


If you want to ride a scooter / bike...be prepared and accept that you are not wrapped in cotton wool and steel is stonger than skin and bone.

Keep clear and confronting drivers wont help you.
I *LOVED* those signs on the road in NZ (example below) Also loved the "Merge Like a Zip" sign in Auckland - really clear and spells it out for most people, I'd hope. Would love to see signs like this everywhere.

-Mel
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Can't find my "Merge Like a Zip" photo but here's another:
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UTC quote
CubsKing99 wrote:
Honestly, I come down with the cagers on this. I don't like it.

I understand your point, Belk, but I don't think this is going about it the right way. Maybe it just needed another pass on some of the wording...

Sarcasm is very hard to convey in a written medium. It's especially hard when you're also mixing in parts that are NOT supposed to be sarcastic.

*Edited to note* None of this was sarcastic. Which was exactly my point...
Hi Belk. Sarcasm is anger veiled in humor and some people don't respond well to it - so that might explain some of the negative reactions.

That said, I certainly can relate to your feeling and I wish that the people towards whom it is directed could get the point. Maybe a few would.

I think a typical response to realizing that you have just done something careless that could have caused someone great harm is first startled shock, then the realization of what could have happened, then guilt and shame, then either you can bear those feelings long enough to have a sense of relief and resolve to learn from the experience, or inability to bear those feelings and devolving into anger and blame of the other party ("Well, if you weren't riding that stupid dangerous thing this never would have happened.")

These are pretty deep personality differences between people which are not easily changed.

I really like some of the PSAs about motorcycle awareness and safety. More of them wouldn't hurt and they just might help.
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I don't have access to the internet during work, so I'm always late. I'm going to remind you that you are dealing with stupid people. You should keep it short and sweet. Like "I wonder what it would be like to drive in a world that everyone drove correctly. Sadly I'll never know while your in it."
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People make mistakes... allow for that fact.


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Insolent and insulting. My father who was a great salesman because he understood people always said, "Kill'em with kindness."
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Hi Belk'

Find me an adult today who will actually consider constructive criticism from a stranger whom they might have slighted somehow. Those good folks are far and few between.

I think anger is like a virus. It spreads and it isn't pretty.

Harv
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UTC quote
Re: People did not only, NOT get the Joke, but...
Belkwinith wrote:
But I am amazed to find so many folks thinking that they not only have the RIGHT to push PTWs around, but that we need to SHUT UP about it.
I think if you printed it onto a brick it might be more useful...

Clown emoticon

R
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CubsKing99 wrote:
Honestly, I come down with the cagers on this. I don't like it.

I understand your point, Belk, but I don't think this is going about it the right way. Maybe it just needed another pass on some of the wording...

Sarcasm is very hard to convey in a written medium. It's especially hard when you're also mixing in parts that are NOT supposed to be sarcastic.

*Edited to note* None of this was sarcastic. Which was exactly my point...
+1. The note *read* a bit passive-aggressive to me. Trying to educate cagers about their bad driving habits is a losing proposition. Instead, I recommend going the route of the helmet/action camera e.g. GoPro, Sony. Just observe and record, but don't antagonize and definitely don't tell them that they're on camera; they might try to run you over if they feel like your video may bring legal troubles.
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Belkwinith wrote:
Just to make it clear, there is no card, there never was a card. It was basically a joke. Or a way to get people to think.

I don't confront nasty drivers, I merely get out of their way.

It was strictly a fantasy idea I posted on FB.

But the responses are far more interesting over here.

My favorite is the THINK! video. I love the lights and the idea that we are just people and if you met us, you might like us.

Carry on.

Echo chamber... We share similar experiences, so we'll have more "interesting" responses.
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UTC quote
mpfrank wrote:
CubsKing99 wrote:
Honestly, I come down with the cagers on this. I don't like it.

I understand your point, Belk, but I don't think this is going about it the right way. Maybe it just needed another pass on some of the wording...

Sarcasm is very hard to convey in a written medium. It's especially hard when you're also mixing in parts that are NOT supposed to be sarcastic.

*Edited to note* None of this was sarcastic. Which was exactly my point...
Hi Belk. Sarcasm is anger veiled in humor and some people don't respond well to it - so that might explain some of the negative reactions.

That said, I certainly can relate to your feeling and I wish that the people towards whom it is directed could get the point. Maybe a few would.

I think a typical response to realizing that you have just done something careless that could have caused someone great harm is first startled shock, then the realization of what could have happened, then guilt and shame, then either you can bear those feelings long enough to have a sense of relief and resolve to learn from the experience, or inability to bear those feelings and devolving into anger and blame of the other party ("Well, if you weren't riding that stupid dangerous thing this never would have happened.")

These are pretty deep personality differences between people which are not easily changed.

I really like some of the PSAs about motorcycle awareness and safety. More of them wouldn't hurt and they just might help.
True, it was perturbing. The woman obviously saw me and heard my horn. Her window was down and I could have touched her arm on the door. But she came right at me anyway. I was side by side next to her. Then she persisted on down the road, swinging back and forth in the lanes infront of me, or next to me, until I basically had to choose a different route.

This card was not directed at the, whoops you were in my blind spot or even distracted driver. I was thinking of those few people who's aim it seems is to kill me. I am amazed at how many of these people exist and are on the roads with us. Those people who tread on you and then go..."What!? I didn't see you!" and then do it again. They are just plain bullies. Getting their jollies.

I suppose the card was passive aggressive, but no more than passive aggressive than swinging an SUV into a lane that is obviously occupied by me on my scooter. It's like THEY are allowed to attempt to kill or injure me but Heaven Forbid I object to this in front of family and friends.

I want you to think about what is the greater offense...to swing your car into a PTW, while they are clearly RIGHT NEXT TO YOU and then persist in doing it repreatedly until I leave the road. Or a silly little card.

Do you honestly think that that woman is disecting her actions as much as I am mine at this point in time. I would guess a big fat NOPE.

But it's funny. I have learned a ton from this.

You are right, change is sllloooww.

And you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

And don't say anything bad about the people trying to kill you on FB, if you ride, most likely everyone will say you somehow deserved it.
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I totaly get it. The "fantasy" card, that is. Not the reactions you recieved. The people who got all pissy with your joke need to stop and think about your side, or maybe deal with their own guilty concience. I found it quite restrained in fact. If it was my fantasy card, "fuck you" would have been the header, large bold print, all caps, bright color. I chased a guy down last year who nearly killed my wife and I on our vespa's, while being an ass in his pickup. Not smart maybe, but I had some words with him. He seemed genuinely surprised and claimed he never saw us when he pulled out. He was an older gentlemen and was nearly in tears when I was done chewing his ass. It made me realize that some people realy don't see us. They are too busy doing everything but driving while in their cages. Do I feel guilty for being so hard on him? Hell no. He has a responsability to make at least some kind of effort not to kill people. I think I probably did him a favor. With any luck, at least that one guy will be a little more vigilant while driving. That situation did make me realize that despite appearences, most of these idiots we all run into on the road, realy aren't intentionaly trying to hit us. The commercial from New Zealand posted above ties in well with the point I'm trying to make.
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Belkwinith, The lady you described sounds a little tipsy to me.
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Quote:
The woman obviously saw me and heard my horn. Her window was down and I could have touched her arm on the door. But she came right at me anyway. I was side by side next to her. Then she persisted on down the road, swinging back and forth in the lanes infront of me, or next to me, until I basically had to choose a different route.
I am trying to picture why you were riding in this position and near proximity to another vehicle?

Why were you using the horn?

Just asking.
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It's Cool. If it hits home, that's the intent. A couple of year's ago, I was backing out of a spot at Mc.D.'s only to see A Harley right behind me. Not even close, but a wake up call for me. Had someone slapped me with one of your notes I would be embarrassed but learned my lesson. But ya also really piss someone off...gotta be careful.
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This thread is getting my blood boiling again. Some days I just skip the daily rides only to ride around midnight when there is no one on the highway. Actually this is really becoming a habit and it feels cooler at night. But oftentimes I have places to go and people to see on their schedule and must face the insanity. My motto now is 'Be More Visible.' I placed a strip of highly reflective tape on my fairings. I have also decided, inspired by all the comments here, that I need more brightness in the rear during braking. So I have promptly ordered the Euro tail light today with extra light bulbs. I was planning a trip to Oklahoma City this Holiday weekend but I know the roads will be totally crazy. I think that those who don't watch or 'see' us are still able to be educated about the fact that PTW's are everywhere. I had a freak accident about 6 weeks ago in which a moron in front of me slammed on the brakes and proceeded to drive backwards tawards me in what appeared an attempt to park his car in his driveway back side first. I was and still am infuriated. On the other hand just fewer than 2 blocks from my house someone posted an educational sign in their front yard saying: "Beware motorcycles are everywhere. Look twice." This message accompanying a pair of eyes, eyelashes, and eyebrows. Very cool.
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They won't bother reading beyond your first sentence.

Print up a handful of these on name tag stickers. Just peel and stick one onto their bumper.

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If you see a car with one of these on it, feel free to leave a short note under their wiper blade. 3 words; Please Drive Safely.
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Max6200 wrote:
This thread is getting my blood boiling again. Some days I just skip the daily rides only to ride around midnight when there is no one on the highway. Actually this is really becoming a habit and it feels cooler at night. But oftentimes I have places to go and people to see on their schedule and must face the insanity. My motto now is 'Be More Visible.' I placed a strip of highly reflective tape on my fairings. I have also decided, inspired by all the comments here, that I need more brightness in the rear during braking. So I have promptly ordered the Euro tail light today with extra light bulbs. I was planning a trip to Oklahoma City this Holiday weekend but I know the roads will be totally crazy. I think that those who don't watch or 'see' us are still able to be educated about the fact that PTW's are everywhere. I had a freak accident about 6 weeks ago in which a moron in front of me slammed on the brakes and proceeded to drive backwards tawards me in what appeared an attempt to park his car in his driveway back side first. I was and still am infuriated. On the other hand just fewer than 2 blocks from my house someone posted an educational sign in their front yard saying: "Beware motorcycles are everywhere. Look twice." This message accompanying a pair of eyes, eyelashes, and eyebrows. Very cool.
I have to admit, I'm a bit puzzled by the reaction of some of the folks here. When I took the MSF course more than 10 years ago, one of the things the instructor drilled into us is "ride as if everyone wants to kill you". So that guy backed up into you, while you were moving towards him?

A few years ago, I got sideswiped by a guy crossing over four lanes of traffic, just to get to a parking spot. Riding in NYC, you need to have the patience of a saint; road rage is not a good thing to have when you're on a PTW.
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Yes it sent me into a panick mode. Very slow speed crash with serious consequences.
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Max6200 wrote:
Yes it sent me into a panick mode. Very slow speed crash with serious consequences.
I can imagine. The problem with riding a PTW is the illusion that cagers "can see you".
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Quote:
The problem with riding a PTW is the illusion that cagers "can see you".
Its not an illusion to me..its an expectation and one that I also try to achieve when I drive a car.

I dont believe anyone in any vehicle goes out on the road to run into anything else...bike, scoot, kid with a ball, mum with a pram, road sign etc...
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Shooter wrote:
Quote:
The problem with riding a PTW is the illusion that cagers "can see you".
Its not an illusion to me..its an expectation and one that I also try to achieve when I drive a car.

I dont believe anyone in any vehicle goes out on the road to run into anything else...bike, scoot, kid with a ball, mum with a pram, road sign etc...
Did you not read the first post in this thread? I guess Belkinwith imagined that the cager intentionally tried to hit her.
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UTC quote
Shooter wrote:
....I dont believe anyone in any vehicle goes out on the road to run into anything else......
I can assure you sir, on this point you are mistaken.
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Correction: Far to many people go out on the road ASSUMING they won't hit anything.

they don't go out on the road ACTIVELY trying not to hit anything.
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I've known people who drive beaters just so that if someone's tailgating them, they can slam on the brakes and make the other person hit them. The other person will be found at fault, since they were driving too close, so they get a nice payout...

They also aim for the people driving expensive foreign cars...
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We all deal with these situations in different ways, so I see no reason why you can't express your views the way you did, regardless of those who were offended.

However, I'm a pragmatist. The card is of no tangible use to the only person it was directed towards - the other driver.

I'm more concerned that you may be too passive for your own good. If someone intentionally tries to harm you on the road, that's a serious crime that should not be allowed to slide. I would get the license plate of the driver, take a photo from a safe distance at an opportune moment, and then I would report it to the police, regardless of whether the police actually do anything about it, because I want a written record of the incident for future reference to be on file for that driver. This will help to legally protect you in case of future incident with this driver, and it may prove to be damaging evidence in the event of any other incident. Let's say the driver does indeed run a rider off the road and does a hit & run. Your report may be one of the only ways for investigators to identify the driver as a likely suspect with any corroborating details.

Even more action could be taken by police if you capture the event on video. There are less likely to help you if they only have your verbal report. Video can be stronger evidence because of the detail shown.

So instead of possibly wasting much more time with the cards, you might find your time better spent researching video capture cams to record useful evidence.
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UTC quote
multiscootguy wrote:
We all deal with these situations in different ways, so I see no reason why you can't express your views the way you did, regardless of those who were offended.

However, I'm a pragmatist. The card is of no tangible use to the only person it was directed towards - the other driver.

I'm more concerned that you may be too passive for your own good. If someone intentionally tries to harm you on the road, that's a serious crime that should not be allowed to slide. I would get the license plate of the driver, take a photo from a safe distance at an opportune moment, and then I would report it to the police, regardless of whether the police actually do anything about it, because I want a written record of the incident for future reference to be on file for that driver. This will help to legally protect you in case of future incident with this driver, and it may prove to be damaging evidence in the event of any other incident. Let's say the driver does indeed run a rider off the road and does a hit & run. Your report may be one of the only ways for investigators to identify the driver as a likely suspect with any corroborating details.

Even more action could be taken by police if you capture the event on video. There are less likely to help you if they only have your verbal report. Video can be stronger evidence because of the detail shown.

So instead of possibly wasting much more time with the cards, you might find your time better spent researching video capture cams to record useful evidence.
True, my BF wants me to start wearing a camera. Chicago traffic being what it is. If makes everyone feel better, I will invest and wear it.
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Ya know it's sad that we have to have a camera these days to get any respect. Maybe i'm finally getting old. Laughing emoticon
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UTC quote
Belkwinith wrote:
mpfrank wrote:
CubsKing99 wrote:
Honestly, I come down with the cagers on this. I don't like it.

I understand your point, Belk, but I don't think this is going about it the right way. Maybe it just needed another pass on some of the wording...

Sarcasm is very hard to convey in a written medium. It's especially hard when you're also mixing in parts that are NOT supposed to be sarcastic.

*Edited to note* None of this was sarcastic. Which was exactly my point...
Hi Belk. Sarcasm is anger veiled in humor and some people don't respond well to it - so that might explain some of the negative reactions.

That said, I certainly can relate to your feeling and I wish that the people towards whom it is directed could get the point. Maybe a few would.

I think a typical response to realizing that you have just done something careless that could have caused someone great harm is first startled shock, then the realization of what could have happened, then guilt and shame, then either you can bear those feelings long enough to have a sense of relief and resolve to learn from the experience, or inability to bear those feelings and devolving into anger and blame of the other party ("Well, if you weren't riding that stupid dangerous thing this never would have happened.")

These are pretty deep personality differences between people which are not easily changed.

I really like some of the PSAs about motorcycle awareness and safety. More of them wouldn't hurt and they just might help.
True, it was perturbing. The woman obviously saw me and heard my horn. Her window was down and I could have touched her arm on the door. But she came right at me anyway. I was side by side next to her. Then she persisted on down the road, swinging back and forth in the lanes infront of me, or next to me, until I basically had to choose a different route.

This card was not directed at the, whoops you were in my blind spot or even distracted driver. I was thinking of those few people who's aim it seems is to kill me. I am amazed at how many of these people exist and are on the roads with us. Those people who tread on you and then go..."What!? I didn't see you!" and then do it again. They are just plain bullies. Getting their jollies.

I suppose the card was passive aggressive, but no more than passive aggressive than swinging an SUV into a lane that is obviously occupied by me on my scooter. It's like THEY are allowed to attempt to kill or injure me but Heaven Forbid I object to this in front of family and friends.

I want you to think about what is the greater offense...to swing your car into a PTW, while they are clearly RIGHT NEXT TO YOU and then persist in doing it repreatedly until I leave the road. Or a silly little card.

Do you honestly think that that woman is disecting her actions as much as I am mine at this point in time. I would guess a big fat NOPE.

But it's funny. I have learned a ton from this.

You are right, change is sllloooww.

And you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

And don't say anything bad about the people trying to kill you on FB, if you ride, most likely everyone will say you somehow deserved it.
Hi Belk,

I don't think you are doing anything wrong, I'm just looking at why we may not get the response we hope for from our intended target(s). And it's certainly nothing like "passive-aggressively" trying to make a point by putting us in danger. Clearly the woman you had a run-in with isn't even in my second category, but much worse. Her behavior is, to me, clearly criminal.

It's just that trying to influence a person like that's behavior is most likely a fruitless quest unless either law enforcement intervenes and they cease simply out of fear of punishment (by all means report them if you can), or there is a change in the larger social attitude and their miscreance no longer has any social acceptability. This has happened with drunk driving (thank MADD) and may be starting to happen with distracted driving.

A larger issue is a sense of entitlement that seems to be pervasive in contemporary America: My "rights" are more important than anyone else's and "defending" them is more important than any social cost that may be incurred. Add this to a sense of competitiveness and you get people who think they are winning by, for example, not letting anyone merge into "their" lane ahead of them, or get ahead of them at all. Now add bullying - I can act out my displaced anger, frustration, and low self-esteem on you just because I am more powerful than you. Not a pretty combination. (This, BTW, is a psychological comment and not meant to be political.)

Unfortunately, there are, and will continue to be, drunk and distracted drivers, and the asshole production line will never be fully shut down. So ride safe, keep your head on a swivel, remember you're the mouse not the elephant, and get where you're going in one piece. The assholes out there don't give a shit one way or the other, but our loved ones certainly do.
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UTC quote
DRWeside wrote:
Shooter wrote:
Quote:
The problem with riding a PTW is the illusion that cagers "can see you".
Its not an illusion to me..its an expectation and one that I also try to achieve when I drive a car.

I dont believe anyone in any vehicle goes out on the road to run into anything else...bike, scoot, kid with a ball, mum with a pram, road sign etc...
Did you not read the first post in this thread? I guess Belkinwith imagined that the cager intentionally tried to hit her.
I did question Belkinwith why he/she was repeatedly in this position (arms length proximity) to the "offenders" vehicle.
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