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UTC quote
Hello Vespa Gurus, I need a little help.
I am recommissioning a Rally 200 that hasnt been used since the 80's. Apart from the obvious carb and fuel tank cleaning and new seals, I thought the bike would be good to go with only 1,500km on the clock, no rust, its amazing... BUT it had no spark. I inspected the stator and it was bonkers, 500 ohm resistor (not 250 ohms), yellow and green were earthed somewhere, etc...

So I sent the whole femsatronic system and stator to Alan at Beedspeed. He told me it had multiple issues and had probably never worked properly which the mileage of the bike confirms. I restore cars, so keeping things original when you have a nice one is paramount. Despite this I was told the bike would be improved with Vespatronic Ignition System for the femsa crank, so I placed my order...

When it arrived I was not happy at the lack of instructions, just some sketchy wiring diagrams that may or may not be relevant to my bike.

Long story short, I have no idea if I have the correct flywheel for the kit. The flywheel goes on the crank, but not very far and catches the flywheel cover to the point where it cannot be replaced.

Alan at Beedspeed suggested:
cutting the flywheel cover (not an option on such a perfect machine)
spacing the flywheel cover (almost 10mm from the casing at the bottom)
cutting the fan blades (there wouldnt be much left)
spacing the fan (even though it would stick out more?)

None of these are acceptable options. After being slandered by the staff at Beedspeed, the frustration led me to do my own investigating...

The femsatronic crank has a taper and a straight, the later crank is a straight taper... when I removed the flywheel and inspected the inner taper , it is straight?????? Has someone put the wrong flywheel in the box?

I spoke to a few vespa shops who said they had fitted these kits with no problems, others said they had to make a few mods....

I did a test with masking tape on the crank to see where it was contacting the surface of the flywheel and it only makes contact on the last bit of the 16mm taper section.

I'm pretty sure I shouldnt be able to use a straight edge on the flywheel to show no changes in pitch to the taper....

I have emailed and phoned beedspeed, they told me to contact italy. Italy havent answered my emails (with pictures) and even SIP havent responded.....

I have been offered a refund by Beedspeed which I think is the easy way out, this bike needs and deserves a spark
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Hi Waterboost,
Im feeling your pain...

Its unoriginal but have you considered changing the crank to the later P series and then buy the standard 12V conversion kit?

Sure, its not original, but its no less original than the Vespatronic kit, and works out a little cheaper. It certainly wouldnt reduce the valuation on the scoot unless selling to a real purist.

I think youve confirmed it in your post but are you sure its a femsa crank? Theres a picture with dimensions on Beedspeeds website that distinguishes it from the PX crank taper.

Regarding Beedspeed, Ive had plenty of issues with them over the last 6months, but in fairness to them they've always given me suggestions and more importantly free exchanges when things go wrong.

Good luck
Kevin
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UTC quote
Sorry to hear you're having problems. Post a few pics up and there's a lot of good folks here who will chime in.

IMHO get the stator repaired and just run it stock or change out the crank to a P200 one and get the 12V 5 wire stator setup. You're already having enough frustration so keep it simple and just get out on the road.

A lot of folks don't like the Femsatronic system but I like em just fine.
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UTC quote
Re: Rally 200 Femsatronic Problem
Waterboost wrote:
Long story short, I have no idea if I have the correct flywheel for the kit. The flywheel goes on the crank, but not very far and catches the flywheel cover to the point where it cannot be replaced.

Use a P200 flywheel cover.
Waterboost wrote:
After being slandered by the staff at Beedspeed, the frustration led me to do my own investigating...
Careful... This is between you and them, so don't get this forum involved.
Waterboost wrote:
I did a test with masking tape on the crank to see where it was contacting the surface of the flywheel and it only makes contact on the last bit of the 16mm taper section.
Masking tape? That is too thick to be able to be used to check for this sort of thing. I recently had a bad taper on a brand new Mazz crankshaft. This is how I tested it:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled by SFvsr, on Flickr
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UTC quote
the vespatronic is too light for a 200 engine.

The best upgrade for your 200 femsa is :
crank swap for ax PX200 crank (need T5 NU... bearing)
PE200 fywheel
ducati stator (need to be grinded to fit casing bearing shoulder)
ducati cdi
ktytronic smartbooster
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2nd hand Femsa stators are out there. Or just have yours repaired.
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UTC quote
Juju_paris wrote:
the vespatronic is too light for a 200 engine.

The best upgrade for your 200 femsa is :
crank swap for ax PX200 crank (need T5 NU... bearing)
PE200 fywheel
ducati stator (need to be grinded to fit casing bearing shoulder)
ducati cdi
ktytronic smartbooster
Curious about your thoughts?
I have a Rally motor with a 221 kit running a vespatronic flywheel/ignition. Seems to run pretty good to me?
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UTC quote
Willie B wrote:
Juju_paris wrote:
the vespatronic is too light for a 200 engine.

The best upgrade for your 200 femsa is :
crank swap for ax PX200 crank (need T5 NU... bearing)
PE200 fywheel
ducati stator (need to be grinded to fit casing bearing shoulder)
ducati cdi
ktytronic smartbooster
Curious about your thoughts?
I have a Rally motor with a 221 kit running a vespatronic flywheel/ignition. Seems to run pretty good to me?
The Rally was offered up as a touring model. Juju didn't say it doesn't run well with the Vespatronic, he said it is too light. With a light flywheel it takes more throttle action to keep the engine up there.
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UTC quote
I have an (untested as yet) femsa ignition system. It came with the box of bits with the Rally i restored
I have a multimeter if you want me to check anything.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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I mean. Its for sale if you're interested.
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Massive Thanks
Just hunting for a permanent marker... I know masking tape is thick but even that illustrates a major issue...

bholinath - can u pm a price?

My old femsa stator has a melted bit on the pick up? The resistor is 500 ohms? The yellow and green wires are excellent earths???

The Femsatronic box is also poorly...

Wha? emoticon
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UTC quote
Couldnt find a marker... gold paint


http://www.waterboost.co.uk/waterfuel/images/crank_spindle_contact_area2.jpg

The flywheel has a straight taper 23mm - 17mm

The crank is 21mm with no taper and then 21mm - 17.5mm

So the flywheel will not go on ALL the way...

And as the pitch of the taper is wrong, the contact areas are the two small shiny areas...

If this is meant to be the correct flywheel for this crank then I am amazed...

Wha? emoticon
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UTC quote
Just a thought
I know this a Vespa Forum, but I've just been on the hunt for measurements to try and identify what the flywheel is meant to be fitted to....

Going off the 23mm to 17mm straight taper, could it be Lambretta Flywheel that some hapless baffoon has put in the wrong box?

Clown emoticon
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Beedspeed slandering you . . . ??

Well let me tell you.
They are the worst dealers out there.
They are worse than fucking useless!!!
You wouldn't believe the fights i've had with them.
And Alan (the owner) is a total prick - period!!
He will send you either the wrong parts or shabby made parts that won't fit.
Then he'll say "we've never had this problem before".
He will always make out like its your fault.
Bollox.
I advise everyone not to use them unless you want a severe headache.
SIP are better.
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UTC quote
Re: Just a thought
Waterboost wrote:
I know this a Vespa Forum, but I've just been on the hunt for measurements to try and identify what the flywheel is meant to be fitted to....

Going off the 23mm to 17mm straight taper, could it be Lambretta Flywheel that some hapless baffoon has put in the wrong box?

Clown emoticon
For god's sake post up a picture of the flywheel. The whole flywheel.
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UTC quote
Pm sent
I may even have a spare crank too??
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Waterboost.....

Just establish what crank you have first before you buy matching parts.....Like I said earlier
Quote:
I think youve confirmed it in your post but are you sure its a femsa crank? Theres a picture with dimensions on Beedspeeds website that distinguishes it from the PX crank taper.
Theres two photos there with dimensions. If it aint one of them then youre theory about a hapless baboon may have legs. There are a few of them out there.

Kevin
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What is happening to the world?
I have just had a reply from SIP, apparently I have the correct flywheel for the crank... Wha? emoticon

The femsa crank starts off 17.5mm for 16mm it tapers to 21mm stays at 21mm for another 17mm

The Vespatronic flywheel is a straight taper from 17 - 23mm

How little surface area does the flywheel actually contact on the crank?
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AUTOCAD removes doubt!
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The black line is the femsatronic crank

The red line is the inner surface of the Vespatronic flywheel!

Nerd emoticon

So we have Alan at beedspeed, Max at SIP and Tino at lambretta.it telling me its absolutely fine, use a bit of glue, cut your bike to make it fit, its your fault, its your bikes fault, we have sold 200 and no one has mentioned it, etc...

Wha? emoticon

This far worse than SFvsr's bad taper issue above...
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More CAD'liness
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Wha? emoticon

Ermmm... it doesnt fit
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OMG
Despite these pictures, Alan from beedspeed has been in touch and suggested I have a damaged crank!

Has anyone watched a film called idiocracy? It suppost to be a comedy but it so true it might make me cry if I watch it again...

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Was the film idiocracy about some guy who couldn't figure out why he is suddenly so awesome while everyone else is such morons?
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Waterboost wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Wha? emoticon

Ermmm... it doesnt fit
POST A PICTURE OF YOUR FLYWHEEL.

I think you have the wrong flywheel or you forgot to remove the circlip and nut from the flywheel before install. Or something equally stupid.

I'm not saying these parts/scooter not running is YOUR fault. However, I AM saying that YOU are the reason you can't to the bottom of the problem.
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???
Ive been saying I have the wrong flywheel for over a week.

Your assumption that after a week I may still have yet to notice a circlip or nut obstructing me is way off the mark!

I am a common denominator in this matter however so is the kit that 'experts' agree is perfect...

Anyway.... if ur gonna be a fool and swing it back on me.... then YOU need to identify the issue.... IF it is me, how so?

Explain yourself before you end up on the idiot list with the OTHERS!
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UTC quote
SFvsr wrote:
Was the film idiocracy about some guy who couldn't figure out why he is suddenly so awesome while everyone else is such morons?
NO.... but a Moron watching it could be forgiven for thinking that
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Rally
Why not take the refund and get the old six volt system up and running ? Surely that is the easier option.

Good luck. I will taking a great interest in this thread as I too have a 6 volt femsatronic that's needs sorting
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Re: Rally
[quote="Paddy Holt"]Why not take the refund and get the old six volt system up and running ? Surely that is the easier option.

Good luck. I will be taking a great interest in this thread, as I too have a 6 volt femsatronic that's needs sorting : )
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Waterboost wrote:
Ive been saying I have the wrong flywheel for over a week.

Your assumption that after a week I may still have yet to notice a circlip or nut obstructing me is way off the mark!

I am a common denominator in this matter however so is the kit that 'experts' agree is perfect...

Anyway.... if ur gonna be a fool and swing it back on me.... then YOU need to identify the issue.... IF it is me, how so?

Explain yourself before you end up on the idiot list with the OTHERS!
I like how it is everyone else's fault. Good luck fixing your scooter!
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SFvsr wrote:
I like how it is everyone else's fault. Good luck fixing your scooter!
oh sorry, you were so helpful... and not at all antagonistic

Clown emoticon
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So you've got a flywheel that isn't acceptable. Welcome to aftermarket 101. Return it for a refund and proceed in anther direction. At this point you are flogging a dead horse.
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Lets Flog the Horse!
I'm going for the refund option, but not until I have highlighted the shoddyness of this Vespatronic rubbish...

Might even take the matter to court Razz emoticon

I have the time to waste... Getting it right is my job Nerd emoticon

I think it something to do with people in offices being confused by flourescent lights, flouride and vaccines... They think everyone else is stupid!

Or is it something to do with insurance and limited liability that results in a bunch of twots thinking they can get away with whatever they want!

Either way, I am like a bad rash that no topical cream can remove...

I dont care about the bike anymore, or getting it fixed...

This is about logic, common sense and fixing it!

I've been slandered, lied to and messed about... now its my turn!
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Rally
Might even take it to court ? Over a flywheel not fitting ! Just send it back and get a refund like you have said job done.

Personally I don't like to hear decent dealers being slagged off. I have been using beedspeed for over 20 years. And found there service to be excellent in every aspect.

I hope you get the scooter sorted good luck stick with it.

All the best.
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UTC quote
Beedspeed dont care... they just want your money!
I started off thinking Alan was ok... now, I wouldnt leave him with my BMX

Alans wife slagged me off! Alans has been a (insert_nasty_words)

If you read the emails they had sent me you would not say they were decent.

Forget the scooter its going on ebay!

Lets try and clear something up.... they have said that 200 of these badly made, wrong size flywheels have been fitted without issue? Is that true...

When people ignore the facts to sell a product, they should be stopped or steered (whether force is required or not) to make a PROPER product....
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Rally
Hello Waterboost, I am not looking to argue with you, just trying to help you get another fantastic rally 200 on the road. If you need any bits to try, give me a shout. As for the vespatronic flywheels I have had no experience with them so can't comment. What I do know is that the Rally 200 is one of the best vespa scooters ever made, and if you decide to sell it people with be falling over themselves to buy it.

Whatever you decide good luck : )

Regards Paddy.
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UTC quote
Paddy Holt.
I'm glad you've had 20 years of good Beedspeed service coz I certainly haven't.
My post above wasn't a rant about a single bad experience.
Its every time I've used them its been a disaster.
They severely delayed the build of my last Rally 200 due to complete incompetence.
They are not a good dealer.
They are shite.
And Alan is a total 100% wanker.
End of.
SIP's service cannot be beaten by anyone.
I have warned folks on this forum before against using Beedspeed & they ignored my advice.
They ended up saying I was right after they used them
'Nuff said.
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UTC quote
bholinath wrote:
I have an (untested as yet) femsa ignition system. It came with the box of bits with the Rally i restored
I have a multimeter if you want me to check anything.
hi have you still got the stator and cdi as am looking these for my none batrey 74 rally 200. 8)
⚠️ Last edited by mods64 on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Hi. Yes i still have them.
If you happen to have a link, or info on how and what to check on the stator etc i can check them for you. Im not asking much for them.
It would be nice to see them get used.

I also have some extremely nice condition 1972 rally200 engine cases , plus the complete engine, in bits, cleaned, checked and ready to assemble, with old and new type gearbox. Side panels, plus bits n bobs.
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UTC quote
bholinath wrote:
Hi. Yes i still have them.
If you happen to have a link, or info on how and what to check on the stator etc i can check them for you. Im not asking much for them.
It would be nice to see them get used.

I also have some extremely nice condition 1972 rally200 engine cases , plus the complete engine, in bits, cleaned, checked and ready to assemble, with old and new type gearbox. Side panels, plus bits n bobs.
I only need the stator and cdi at the moment how much are ya looking ,were are ya, I am in Blackburn . 8).
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£60 and that will cover p&p too
Sound ok?
Ill through in the flywheel too if its not too much too post it.

Im too far away to deliver them
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£60 and that will cover p&p too
Sound ok?
Ill throw in the flywheel too if its not too much to post it.

Im too far away to deliver them
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