BSG Corse wrote:
we must test some different configurations, then set the standard one. displacement is over 250cc.
⚠️ Last edited by Ginch on Sun, 01 Feb 2015 21:07:45 +0000; edited 1 time
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Ossessionato
![]() I have a few scooters....
Joined: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 01:31:15 +0000
Posts: 2225 Location: San Antonio, TX |
Thu, 12 Jun 2014 00:50:48 +0000
quote
I love the cylinder head. It reminds me of the glow plug from the Cox airplane engines from back in the day.
Positive
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Hooked
Rally180
Joined: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 05:05:08 +0000
Posts: 134 Location: Newport Beach, California |
Thu, 12 Jun 2014 00:57:39 +0000
quote
How is that motor not going to melt using the stock fan and cooling set up?
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Thu, 12 Jun 2014 03:09:24 +0000
quote
crock wrote: How is that motor not going to melt using the stock fan and cooling set up? |
![]() Thu, 12 Jun 2014 06:35:37 +0000
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:19 +0000
Posts: 5794 Location: Indo |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:19 +0000
Posts: 5794 Location: Indo |
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Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:19:59 +0000
quote
cmstuber wrote: Claude, there are a few folks that broke 100mph on a vintage. In that article the dude mentions he thinks he needs 35hp at 9500rpm with his gearing to pull 100mph. A quick youtube search pulls up a dyno of someone getting 47hp at 12500rpms with a 150cc bsg smallie motor. I would imagine if properly tuned, the possibilities of a 300cc motor such as this in the right hands could pull 100mph with not too much thought. |
Enthusiast
![]() Rally200,VBB, SS50, V90 ,PGO, BlueBadgePrimavera
Joined: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 06:37:29 +0000
Posts: 90 Location: California |
Enthusiast
![]() Rally200,VBB, SS50, V90 ,PGO, BlueBadgePrimavera
Joined: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 06:37:29 +0000
Posts: 90 Location: California |
Hooked
'78 P125X w/ Malossi 166, '08 Stella, '64 Allstate
Joined: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:04:27 +0000
Posts: 260 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
Fri, 13 Jun 2014 02:34:51 +0000
quote
Totally agree with you about freeway riding and wind. Where I live, 30mph wind is normal, straight into that at 45mph is scary. Can't imagine what going 100mph into a headwind like that would be like.
I don't like riding on the freeway at all, too many semi trucks which just make you wobble and spit gravel in your teeth. Hell, I don't like driving a cage on the freeway. People texting and talking on their phones going 80mph is just plain dangerous. 100mph through the countryside on some smaller roads and maybe blasting through town does seem fun. But there is a point at which we must entertain the conversation about why we ride vintage scooters and not modern bikes. And while I'm all about going faster on a P, at some point is there a line crossed where we lose what it means to ride an older, slower form of transport? For example: BSG eventually makes a touring 300cc motor you can drop in a frame for $2000, would you drop the cash on it or on a good shape rally 200 for the same price and tour with it? Personally I'd go with the stock rally. I think the reason is that this 300cc motor is a novelty, a very cool novelty that I covet, but a novelty nonetheless. And while the novelty is totally rad, for me it can't provide the same feelings of pride or whatever it is that riding a vintage stock bike provides. |
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Fri, 13 Jun 2014 06:26:35 +0000
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Here's a guy on a Super GTS 300 doing a top speed run of 80 MPH.
@Cmstuber I get pretty spooked around semi trucks. The wind blast is too much so I try to stick to the back roads. They're more fun, there's always a few twists. I can't really comment on having a real vintage scoot. |
![]() Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:10:05 +0000
Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:40:28 +0000
Posts: 5109 Location: west aus |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:40:28 +0000
Posts: 5109 Location: west aus |
Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:10:05 +0000
quote
80...
⚠️ Last edited by joshzingzing on Tue, 03 Feb 2015 00:43:46 +0000; edited 1 time
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:29:47 +0000
quote
Apparently this motor runs a 64mm crank. Not sure what that means for bore size.
BSG Corse wrote: this is first engine built for tests. everything seems to work very well, so we expect to be ready for sale in some months... after summer holidays. thank you all for interest |
RIP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() T5s
Joined: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:52:14 +0000
Posts: 17005 Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 03:19:18 +0000
Hooked
78 P200 05 PX150
Joined: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:00:19 +0000
Posts: 214 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
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Hooked
78 P200 05 PX150
Joined: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:00:19 +0000
Posts: 214 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 03:19:18 +0000
quote
Awesome engine. Too bad it's 4 speed, air cooled and uses a drum brake. I'm surprised he didn't machine some billet points and run a 6-volt ignition while he was at it. I would be embarrassing to spend that kinda money only to be wasted by a 250 Ninja.
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 03:24:00 +0000
quote
Yeah but the torque on this thing will be massive so that extra gears may not be needed... motors with a narrow power band can really use the 5th and 6th gears. This motor will outperform the chassis by a large margin.
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![]() Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:18:14 +0000
Banned
3:5
Joined: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:38:46 +0000
Posts: 8804 Location: San Francisco |
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Banned
![]() 3:5
Joined: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:38:46 +0000
Posts: 8804 Location: San Francisco |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:18:14 +0000
quote
And drum brakes are more than adequate for the rear. In fact I bet you could do with just one shoe (the leading one). Combined with 300cc of engine braking...
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Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:43:37 +0000
Hooked
78 P200 05 PX150
Joined: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:00:19 +0000
Posts: 214 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
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Hooked
78 P200 05 PX150
Joined: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:00:19 +0000
Posts: 214 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:43:37 +0000
quote
Even Harley abandoned drum brakes in 72... My point is, if you are going through all that trouble why not take the opportunity to modernize it.
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Hooked
![]() '60TV175 '59LI50 '66 Allstate Falc Smally '85 Malossi PK125s '85.5 RZ350
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:56:04 +0000
Posts: 126 Location: San Francisco |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:58:41 +0000
quote
chuckactor wrote: Even Harley abandoned drum brakes in 72... My point is, if you are going through all that trouble why not take the opportunity to modernize it. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:36:49 +0000
quote
SFDiego wrote: chuckactor wrote: Even Harley abandoned drum brakes in 72... My point is, if you are going through all that trouble why not take the opportunity to modernize it. But Chuck does have a point. It would be kinda nice to see some other upgrades as well.... however for most of us here it'll probably be just a pipe dream anyway. |
![]() Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:46:37 +0000
Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:40:28 +0000
Posts: 5109 Location: west aus |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:40:28 +0000
Posts: 5109 Location: west aus |
Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:46:37 +0000
quote
Ginch wrote: [just a pipe dream . ![]() last night I dreamed I was doing 90mph in a beetle, true story |
![]() Wed, 18 Jun 2014 15:22:50 +0000
Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:05:05 +0000
Posts: 6980 Location: Detroit, Michigan |
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Moderator
![]() 1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:05:05 +0000
Posts: 6980 Location: Detroit, Michigan |
Wed, 18 Jun 2014 15:22:50 +0000
quote
That really is beautiful. Looks like someone may have CNC'd a completely new engine out of aluminum? It doesn't look like they altered an original case.
i'm gobsmacked. |
Molto Verboso
![]() Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
Joined: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:34:06 +0000
Posts: 1771 Location: PNW |
Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:57:55 +0000
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Uhhhhmmmm... Would it be inappropriate to use the word "erection"? god I hope so...
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Sun, 05 Oct 2014 02:00:10 +0000
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bsg price for px 300 cc motor
hi everyone
just got a price from bsg for the complete 300cc px engine 6.5 k ( euros ) about $8500 u.s. dollars lot of money for some fun ! great engineering though. |
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:15:40 +0000
quote
Scootering have done a test ride with one of these... December issue.
Couple of pics to keep you drooling - ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Sun, 01 Feb 2015 21:13:56 +0000
quote
I went back to this thread the other day to check something and found a lot of the pictures not linked any more, so fixed that.
I see the BSG smallframe case is now available on SIP for EUR2100... still plenty of spending to be done to fill it up! But I wonder if that's an indication of what the largeframe case will cost? http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/crankcases+bsg+race+for+vespa+_24350000 And that nice clutch to suit is only EUR385... ![]() |
![]() Sun, 01 Feb 2015 22:13:36 +0000
Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
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Hooked
![]() Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
Sun, 01 Feb 2015 22:13:36 +0000
quote
Lots of work wasted on air-cooled cylinder fed via what's considered 'industrial fan' configuration... I know that these guys can alter cnc specs for other cylinders so liquid cooled configuration is possible (I can thin of a number of liquid cooled snow mobile cylinders more suitable).
Yamaha did a paper in the 70s showing how much the heat soak saps power on an air cooled motor vs liquid cooled and the number is really discouraging. And that conical cylinder head is equally discouraging! Precisely where the motor needs most cooling capacity those guys removed fins because of packaging constraints! The amount of power to be made from improving cooling in the cylinder head area is amazing, and this motor is just pissing in the wind! A shop that has access to cnc and that kid of funding needs to stop fucking around with air cooled cylinders if they want people's money! |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 02:05:22 +0000
quote
I see the smallframe case is set up for liquid cooling.
I wonder if they have gone for air cooling simply because they'll sell more? I would have thought that the unit as is will have way more than enough power for most people... not to mention most scooters. Lots of folks wouldn't consider it if they had to install radiators etc. But for ultimate power you're right... maybe that'll be an option once it reaches production? |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 04:11:07 +0000
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:52:02 +0000
Posts: 1214 Location: United States |
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Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:52:02 +0000
Posts: 1214 Location: United States |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 04:11:07 +0000
quote
the BSG 305 is putting out 51hp. You can put whatever cylinder you want on these cases. The Lambretta version uses same cylinder and is case inducted. Once again yo can use whatever cylinder you want. The swingarm length is adjustable and Lambretta case being reworked to make for fast removal without having to undo motor mounts.
Stop talking like you know more than the BSG Corse guys Begani, Scauri & Graiani. These guys will run circles around everyone here. This is an incredible advance in in the performance world for vintage scooters. This thing will eat Ninja 250s all day. Straight line that is.
Positive
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![]() Mon, 02 Feb 2015 06:13:34 +0000
Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
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Hooked
![]() Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 06:13:34 +0000
quote
That's flash reading on the dyno, flog that around for 30 minutes and do a reading then. I had a tuned engine that put out 30hp and the cases would get so hot from heat transfer that they were sizzling!
I dig what they are doing, those cases are beautiful and even after heat soak kicks in that engine is still putting out 40hp (potentially). It's just that it would be great if they geared toward liquid cooled cylinders - there sure are plenty in that stroke/bore configuration. Ginch, I agree that this set-up was likely developed for ease of installation. It's not the best way to go, but sure is easy to install. PS, almogavar1969, I have plenty drag racing trophies to back up my mouth. |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 06:25:09 +0000
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:52:02 +0000
Posts: 1214 Location: United States |
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Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:52:02 +0000
Posts: 1214 Location: United States |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 06:25:09 +0000
quote
There will be water cooled setups soon enough. The possibilities are endless
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![]() Mon, 02 Feb 2015 06:31:49 +0000
Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
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Hooked
![]() Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:25:38 +0000
Posts: 193 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
Addicted
SS208, SX250 , RD's and a K1300s and an RZ350 and TZR250
Joined: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 04:29:16 +0000
Posts: 567 |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:00:44 +0000
quote
As for engineering, I would be more concerned with how they bolted down the cylinder. I assume they were using socket caps as a shortcut as it simply can't get more poorly designed. Crushing an aluminum flange, not having washers and threading into aluminum are all poor. After all the work that went into the rest of the design, that is amazing! I am surprised their machinist didn't kick them after all his hard work when you know those cases will come back stripped out!
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OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:14:26 +0000
quote
TR wrote: As for engineering, I would be more concerned with how they bolted down the cylinder. I assume they were using socket caps as a shortcut as it simply can't get more poorly designed. Crushing an aluminum flange, not having washers and threading into aluminum are all poor. After all the work that went into the rest of the design, that is amazing! I am surprised their machinist didn't kick them after all his hard work when you know those cases will come back stripped out! Scooter & Service do a similar thing with their Husqvarna conversion... the plate is held to the case via the original cylinder stud positions, and the new cylinder is bolted down to the plate. It must be a system that does work... but it makes me wonder. ![]() |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Tue, 10 Feb 2015 08:42:15 +0000
quote
They're at it again... now they've developed a 213 kit for a 125/150 case! Supposedly they'll release more details and pricing in "a few days".
69mm bore (same as a Pinasco 213). Looks like your case will need machining. but the cylinder skirt doesn't extend as far down as a normal cylinder. It comes with it's own rod, big end pin and big and small end bearings. Definitely not plug and play! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Ossessionato
![]() a lambretta or two
Joined: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:32:10 +0000
Posts: 3724 Location: San Francisco |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8421 Location: Victoria, Australia |
Tue, 10 Feb 2015 08:49:52 +0000
quote
SFvsr wrote: Looks lika Lammy barrel |
![]() Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:20:14 +0000
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:11:40 +0000
Posts: 1082 Location: New Zealand |
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Molto Verboso
![]() Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:11:40 +0000
Posts: 1082 Location: New Zealand |
Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:20:14 +0000
quote
ASS outta U & ME
TR wrote: As for engineering, I would be more concerned with how they bolted down the cylinder. I assume they were using socket caps as a shortcut as it simply can't get more poorly designed.... those cap screws are possibly loctite in for cylinder placement...for whatever reason deemed necessary at the time, possibly for ease of build when setting squish, who knows. The question remains, could you design and build a better one? Looks great to me, especially his rotax, where he looks to have modified an original LHS and just CNCd a RH outer to work. bet if he gave you one youd be spinning praise all over the show ![]() |
Molto Verboso
![]() Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:52:41 +0000
Posts: 1062 Location: Glasgow |
Tue, 10 Feb 2015 17:43:41 +0000
quote
I would just like to add my thoughts on this and all things to do with the Vespa.
The engine is a thing of beauty as is the clutch, i could very easily have them on my coffee table and look at them all day long, but I don't know if its the material I like the look off more or the fact its a Vespa engine, probably both. If I was spending money on development of a part, it would be the chassis. Can you imagine a GS150 or Rally chassis, panels, headset, front hub, forks & mudguard (ok thats a few parts) made from brushed aluminium how good wood that look. As my old boss said about a nice looking girl "you would need an undertaker to get me off that" Do I want to sit at 90mph on a scooter travelling down the motorway, no. Do I want my chariot to look good sitting at 60mph on nice countryside road, yes. |
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