Modern Vespa

You seem to be on a roll tonight. Maybe step away from the keyboard for a bit. This is not acceptable.

Kumpan Electric

Thanks! Styling was one of the draws. Sure, it's all plastic, but I do get a lot of compliments. People don't often realize it's a cheap Chinese bike. Not right away, anyway.

The whole experience has re-affirmed something that's been handed down to me through the generations. If you take care of the things you have, they will last a lot longer. I know ... OK, Boomer. But it's true. There's a whole sub forum ... what's it called ... NSM, where people are wrenching and hammering and welding just to keep ancient bikes on the road. It's probably the thing I appreciate the most about this forum is the appreciation for the old stuff.

I'm glad people are still reading this thread. MV has been a great place to hang out, even though I haven't always owned one.

Thanks again, everyone.

Yes most definitely I do. They are lighter scooters and they don't feel as grounded as a Vespa 300 or 250. Any situation in which your scooter may go airborne such as raised railroad tracks be sure not to hit the brakes or widen the throttle upon landing because the bike will most definitely skid and you'll fall.

Good to know. Thanks.

Strange post Motovista.

However, for you amusement click the link below and you'll see what Kz is on about. It's long been known that Yamaha jointly produces engines and various other bits and bobs with Linhai. It's well known too that Japanese manufacturers sell the rights to manufacture "obsolete" engines to Chinese firms who then modernise the motors to meet emissions of other countries and then use them in various bikes and scooters. The deal often includes the original tooling going to that Chinese firm. In the case of Honda selling the rights to manufacture the Honda 250 Helix to Chinese firm Jailing, it was always going to happen since Jailing was Hondas choice to manufacture the Helix in China under licence using the Honda name for years and years. When Honda wanted to stop production of the Helix, Jailing went solo and did a deal with Honda to keep the original tooling to produce engines and bikes. It worked well. China now also produces it's own amazing range of fuel injected engines that we also get in bikes over here now. They are superb, reliable and robust.

It's difficult to follow some of the deals being done in the far east but they seem to work out pretty well and we now have some fantastic bikes over here in europe made by the Chinese. They easily match Japanese quality too. Don't forget we are not talking about the cheap 50cc Chinese scooters you can buy from the corner shop in the States. We are talking proper Chinese motorcycles. Often when you refer to poor quality Chinese bikes or scooters you are clearly referring to bikes in your home market. We don't get those.

https://howwerollmotorsports.com/joint-venture-between-yamaha-motor-co-ltd-and-jiangsu-linhai-power-machinery-group/

Wow. Almost seven years to the day and this thread's still going.

End of an era, though. Last night I signed the title over to the new owner of the ZNEN. I'm actually pretty happy. It runs as well as it ever has after eight years, and it's going to a good home where I know it won't be ridden nearly as hard as I rode it. And it's going to serve the same purpose ... it will help the new owner decide if scootering is something he wants to do.

Thanks to everyone for their insight and advice. I've learned a lot. Hopefully I've passed some along to other folks, too.

This isn't an end, just a new chapter. I have some ideas in the works that I'm sure you'll be hearing about soon. In the meantime I still have three bikes. For now, anyway. But none of them are Chinese.

My Castelgarden lawn mower (Made in San Marino) has an engine which is an exact copy (under license) of the equivalent Honda engine; a few years ago the carburetor broke (made in China) and the Honda one fit perfectly. Globalization.

Yes this can happen Attila. When my friends Honda Helix engine went out to lunch with a broken piston and rod, I swapped out the engine for a brand new Jailing produced copy (made under licence in China). IIRC at the time the engine was just £400 plus shipping to buy straight from the factory. It was basically the original engine as made for Honda with some minor changes to internals to meet tighter emissions. In the process it lost 2hp but it was a good engine otherwise. The bike went really well after that and no one could tell it had a Jailing badged engine unless they looked hard at the crankcase and read the wording "Jailing".

I hope you get the kind of service the Znen gave you out of what ever follows.

My major criticism of the products that come out of China is that they don't have anything emotive about them. They are just pretty good copies of other products.

One of the reasons that I sold the Benelli was that the engine was mismatched to the chassis.

It was a revvy/sporty engine in a chassis not build for performance which made me wonder if they had all the bits but didn't think about the way they worked together.

I think that what they are doing is watching the market to see what's selling and then make their own version with what they have rather than think about what actually works.

Cruisers and Bobbers rely on torque not rpms and the thing wasn't comfortable below 4000 so riding in traffic wasn't easy and on faster stuff it had a buzz through the bars.

Yes they are designed in Italy but they do have a Chinese feel to them which is still light years from the stuff coming out of Europe and Japan.

Totally agree.

I think it depends entirely on what type of bike you are looking for. The British company Sinnis produces some quality Chinese built bikes but nothing currently above 380cc. I've been lucky enough to try their crop of new 125's with euro 5 compliant engines. I haven't tried the 380cc bike yet but it gets good reviews. However, the 125's were brilliant bikes and particularly the 125T Terrain with it's liquid cooled engine. My nephew has had the air cooled version for the last 2.5 years and put over 22k miles on the clock without any issues. I serviced it for him when it was out of warranty and it was a piece of cake. The new euro 5 version looks at least as easy and maybe easier since you can now get to the oil filter without taking off the entire engine side case. It's also a lot more powerful and much faster.

https://www.sinnismotorcycles.com/sinnis-t125/

Zontes are another good Chinese bike manufacturer making the highest quality bikes you will find anywhere. I've had the chance to look those over too indepth. They too make 125's and 312cc bikes. They get rave reviews from owners and professional alike and the trade seems to like them a lot.

https://www.zontes.co.uk/

Watch this if you want to see the quality of the bikes.

And this video below is particularly impressive regarding quality of the bike and how it goes. It's a proper indepth riding review and try and watch it to the end.

These are the sort of bikes we have been, and are now getting in the Uk and there are many other makes too equally as good. These bikes have already changed the way many think about Chinese bikes in the UK and europe.

It's an irony that my local dealership who had won Sinnis Dealer of the Year on many an occasion declined to continue the relationship when they had one too many come back under warranty.

They replaced them with Benelli and as luck would have it mine was the only bike that failed electrically so back it went.

I did laugh at the fact that an "Italian" bike will still fail on the sparks even when it's built in a different country.

Having said that I'd much rather Benelli survive in this guise than disappear from the market but it is a shame that it took money from the Chinese to save it rather than Italy or more generally Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that MV Agusta have gone in the same direction.

Here's a question - Do you think that Pablo in Italy or Wolfgang in Germany or even Brad in the US build their bikes with more heart and passion than Chen in China ?

Interesting about your local dealer Bill. That's not a general thing though and Sinnis dealers seem to like the bikes they sell. But obviously Sinnis can't please everyone.

What happened to your Bennelli electrics, was it the wiring?

The passion for a brand starts from its origins, grows with its projects, continues with those who build it, expands with what it builds, lives with those who buy. Ferrari is an example.
If there was a Chinese brand made with these ingredients (there is someone) and that has the time and patience to grow, maybe one day we will have a brand worthy of more consideration.

In this country the only scooter brand that trades on passion is Vespa. Nobody gets excited about plastic bodied, tube framed scooters from anywhere in the sub 350cc class. They're just auto substitutes. Ironically though there seems to be some excitement about Royal Alloy even with a GY6 engine so maybe that's the answer.

Don't ask Silverwing, BMW or Burgman owners in the upper categories though. They're pretty rabid about their scooters.

I think that the only owner that's going to feel emotive about his Chinese scooter is a Chinese one.

I also think that the problem with Maxi Scooters is that it's hard to make one that looks original.

BMW and Yamaha tried hard to make theirs look a bit more dynamic but they still look very similar to the other manufacturers models.

The Kymco AK 550 was pretty much identical to the Yamaha X - Max. Maybe that was the plan all along ?

Identical except for two things: quality and price, but let me admit that the latest version of the AK 550 is qualitatively equal to the T Max. They are learning ...

I'm not sure I agree. The Genuine Buddy owners I know are pretty passionate about their scoots, especially the 125s.

I will agree Burgman owners and Tmax owners.

As I pointed out, it is the brand that needs to improve all products and not just the best-selling one, Suzuki and Yamaha do it. There is an example to follow.

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

We all do it in one way or another, chinese products are often components of larger products. There is now an industrial radicalization of their products for which one cannot avoid buying them. Eventually you will support them, like it or not.

I'd like to remind everyone that politics, whether it be local or international, is still strictly forbidden here.

Thanks.

I think the Chinese are making the Royal Alloy 300 scooter using the pre-HPE Vespa engine built under license. It's got the advantage of removable side panels for easy access to the engine too.

https://www.royalalloy.com/tg-series

https://scooterlab.uk/royal-alloy-gp-300s-v-vespa-gts-300-hpe-road-test/

I apologize...

This is a great idea and also an incentive to buy.

If that were true Harley would be out of business. Passion is what sells their bikes, not necessarily quality.

It is different, HD had the initial idea of ​​"retaining" its customers. He has created a bond with dedicated clubs and has a name linked to the origins of the motorcycle.

I think that the worst thing about the Royal Alloy are the two names as they feel mismatched.

It sounds like two words have been naively translated and this is what it equates to in English.

It's oddly so close to a Vespa but it's aimed at the buyer that specifically doesn't want one, however it operates, looks and goes just like one.

Is this a very narrow demographic that they are appealing to ?

It seems so but the resemblance is closer to the old Lambretta.

I liked the RA but it was too small for me and I didn't want to buy a warranty. The raised footboards were awkward. It reminds me of a college-buddy's coveted Lambretta. The name RA seems aimed at the Indian Royal Enfield nostalgic buyer.

No. It isn't different. It's a sad world when ad copy is more important than quality. Victory motorcycles didn't sell until Polaris slapped Indian labels on them. Now they sell them by saying "America's Oldest Motorcycle Company" and people are buying it.

It's just dumb. Passion is what people bring to an object. Machines don't possess it. I like my Chinese scooters. I love my Japanese motorcycles even though they are built by engineers. I bring that passion to my motorcycles. The satisfaction is all mine, not theirs. They don't feel a thing.

Yeah, that makes sense but you would have thought that someone in the marketing department could have asked the question - Do these words relate to each other in a similar way that Regal Magnesium don't.

I think that it's a brave effort to manufacture a alternative low volume metal bodied scooter that's powered by " Italian" engine but I think that the buyer they looking for is the kind of guy who used to by a SAAB and he could have had a Mercedes.

Buyers like that are often making a statement and they are pretty rare.

It's an interesting comment about Indian. I think that another reason that they are selling is the difference between the performance and technology of the Indian units and the Harley's.

The latter is saddled by using pushrods as they are nostalgic and therefore they don't have the flexibility of an overhead cam unit.

Younger and more performance driven riders know this.

That made me laugh.

Oh good. Then my work here is done.

Don't think the rest of the post was lost on me, though. "Statement vehicles" are a thing. I've had several of them. A couple of VW Buses, a couple of Volvo 240s, the 928 ... all cars that are "got" by the people who "get" them. Even have my eye on a BMW i3. Niche vehicles, all of them.

Akin to the Dennis Miller Ratio.

A strange thing to take issue with. Who ever thought that 'NEXT' would be a good name to call a clothing and homewares retailer...and who cares?

Next makes sense because it's a brilliant pun as it's always "Next" to something.

It makes it memorable.

Using two words that are unrelated such as Cheese Sun or Pallet Horizon gives you the impression that it hasn't been thought out, especially when your'e selling to European and American customers.

In Chinese Royal Alloy might make a lot of sense just like Sunny Wok would make sense for a Take-a-way but the two words in English don't relate to each other.

A collective term or a group of metals that's Imperial for a scooter manufacturer feels hackneyed and clunky.

At least someone thought about the name Genuine.