OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
...but I thought I would share this anyway. If you want to try it, it's definitely gonna have to be at your own risk. Let's just call this 'Crude Port Matching for Dummies' and if you want to do it the proper way I suggest you look here where the topic is discussed in depth: Porting 101

My problem was the tiny intake ports in the stock 50 & 90 cc cases compared to the 125cc Primavera top end I am installing. The motor has been running perfectly, clutch & tranny working great and no oil leaks. I'm a lazy old fart and the idea of splitting the cases just to open up the intakes a little bit really didn't appeal to me so I came up with a Rube Goldberg method to do it w/ the cases intact.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Giant 125 top end wants bigger ports to suck fuel/air thru.


So far so good, the motor runs great on the stand after finishing but I know the proof will be if it still runs OK after I get some serious mileage on it. Fingers crossed!
First I used aluminum foil to make a 'dam' closing off the crankcase. I plugged the oil hole with a snug fitting pop rivet.
First I used aluminum foil to make a 'dam' closing off the crankcase. I plugged the oil hole with a snug fitting pop rivet.
Now to seal up all the little cracks & crevices in my dam with candle wax.
Now to seal up all the little cracks & crevices in my dam with candle wax.
Nearly done waxing things up , almost time to start whittling away at it(knocking on wood).
Nearly done waxing things up , almost time to start whittling away at it(knocking on wood).
Damn, that is a LOT of aluminum grinding crap piled up in there!
Damn, that is a LOT of aluminum grinding crap piled up in there!
And done. 
Vacuumed up everything I could, pulled out the dam, then more vacuuming & blowing out the crankcase with air. Turned over smooth as could be so I guess I kept the all(or most) the crap out of the crankcase.
And done. Vacuumed up everything I could, pulled out the dam, then more vacuuming & blowing out the crankcase with air. Turned over smooth as could be so I guess I kept the all(or most) the crap out of the crankcase.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8545
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8545
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Dangit Voodoo, do you make your own candles too?
@groover avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa P200E & P125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 318
Location: Ohio
 
Hooked
@groover avatar
Vespa P200E & P125x
Joined: UTC
Posts: 318
Location: Ohio
UTC quote
Whatever works, I think it's a great idea for a quickie job.

However, and for the record... I would also NOT recommend
@glscoot avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1062
Location: Glasgow
 
Molto Verboso
@glscoot avatar
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1062
Location: Glasgow
UTC quote
Really.

Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon
@bobo avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Medley 150S, '23 Ducati Monster SP
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2533
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Ossessionato
@bobo avatar
'70 Super 150, Medley 150S, '23 Ducati Monster SP
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2533
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
You could also smoke crack out of there.
UTC

Molto Verboso
px200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1269
Location: london
 
Molto Verboso
px200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1269
Location: london
UTC quote
Used to use evostik glue as it thixotropic and smells nice as a way of catching alloy swarf.

Grumpy
@scootermarc69 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2101
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
 
Ossessionato
@scootermarc69 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2101
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
UTC quote
pretty sure the standard ports on the 125 are the same as the 50. Melting a brick of parafin in a small pot and pouring it in a well taped off bottom end would make for a tidier version f what you've done- not that I'd recommend that.
@warhorse avatar
UTC

Hooked
'80 Bajaj chetak, '05 LML
Joined: UTC
Posts: 486
Location: Sydney
 
Hooked
@warhorse avatar
'80 Bajaj chetak, '05 LML
Joined: UTC
Posts: 486
Location: Sydney
UTC quote
Nice one. I did something similar using some dense closed cell foam as a plug. It worked fine. But you must pay attention to detail and get it super clean before you pull the plug out.
UTC

Hooked
66 50s mildly tickled, 65 Bajaj 150 8" of fun
Joined: UTC
Posts: 177
Location: Aucks.... deep dirty south
 
Hooked
66 50s mildly tickled, 65 Bajaj 150 8" of fun
Joined: UTC
Posts: 177
Location: Aucks.... deep dirty south
UTC quote
Yup been there done that same as warhorse closed cell foam and lots of grease to seal it.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9951
Location: Nashville

71 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9951
Location: Nashville

71 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I kind've like this approach, but anyone who does something like this needs to understand that it's risky and be prepared to either have things go horribly awry (which could happen anyway once you start opening up ports) or wind up having to split the cases anyway, in which case all the extra pain and effort was for naught.

I'm curious how you measured everything up and how you feel that turned out. You just marked out the new port sizes from the head gasket and went for it, right?

Repeatedly dry-fitting the head into each case half was an important piece of how I made sure my porting was juuuuuuust right, but I did a lot more work than you did, too.

I haven't worked on a small frame motor (yet!), but is it really that much extra work to split and re-assemble if you're not going to be replacing the bearings?

Personally, I think I would use this approach before I split my VBB cases again if I didn't need to open them up anyway, but not the Stella.
@sfdiego avatar
UTC

Hooked
'60TV175 '59LI50 '66 Allstate Falc Smally '85 Malossi PK125s '85.5 RZ350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 126
Location: San Francisco
 
Hooked
@sfdiego avatar
'60TV175 '59LI50 '66 Allstate Falc Smally '85 Malossi PK125s '85.5 RZ350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 126
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
Re: Cannot recommend...
V oodoo wrote:
...but I thought I would share this anyway. If you want to try it, it's definitely gonna have to be at your own risk. Let's just call this 'Crude Port Matching for Dummies' and if you want to do it the proper way I
Giant 125 top end wants bigger ports to suck fuel/air thru. [/center]

So far so good, the motor runs great on the stand after finishing but I know the proof will be if it still runs OK after I get some serious mileage on it. Fingers crossed!
A huge "A" for effort.

In the future if you have to port with the lump assembled, "Play-Doh" is more effective and easier to use/apply than foil/wax.

Perhaps it's the photo angle but the last photo showing the finished work appears to have mismatched transfers. The fly side looks far smaller than the drive and not very ideal. Measure 3 times cut once and then measure again.

The goal is symmetry so measuring devices are your best friends.
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Well that's interesting, some are shocked or sobbing, but seems I'm not the first by a long shot and many have found better techniques and materials than my crude efforts. I don't have all the fancy stuff or even Play Doh available here, so I gotta use what I can find. I did think about using paraffin, like my Mom used to use to seal jam when she was canning, but can't even find that here.

@SoCal, the traditional beeswax candle was left over from Easter services - I do like to recycle.

@ Chandler, yep, used the gasket to size the port inlets - you can see the scribe marks in some of the pics.

@SFD, The picture isn't so good but the port mouths are the same size(roughly ). I just got done doing the same job the usual way on another smallie motor where I could check & match against the cylinder ports, look here https://modernvespa.com/forum/post1904591#1904591. I pretty much tried to copy what I did there as far as the port shape below the surface, but this is an admittedly fairly rough job - I don't even have my good cutting burrs with me
checking cylinder match, a little off the right side please...
checking cylinder match, a little off the right side please...
not polished and shiny, but all done and better than stock I hope
not polished and shiny, but all done and better than stock I hope
@sfdiego avatar
UTC

Hooked
'60TV175 '59LI50 '66 Allstate Falc Smally '85 Malossi PK125s '85.5 RZ350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 126
Location: San Francisco
 
Hooked
@sfdiego avatar
'60TV175 '59LI50 '66 Allstate Falc Smally '85 Malossi PK125s '85.5 RZ350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 126
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
Using what you got effectively is the key so good on you. FYI I make my play doh from everyday pantry items. 8)
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
and here's another one,
but I'm kinda on the fence on this, so I might recommend it if it's still working OK in a year or so.

Friend of a friend's dad rides a P200 and he busted the kick starter shaft off. He was told I could fix it so he brought the scoot and the busted off kick start lever to me a fair distance with a trailer. I glanced at the scooter and examined the lever a bit and agreed to apply my best efforts in trade for a good air compressor setup. I won't work for cash, especially here in Greece.

Next time I'll glance at the lever and examine the damn scooter a bit. I'm sure those with more experience would have considered all the possibilities, but this was the first busted kick start I've had to deal with other than stripped teeth in the lever.
while removing the motor, I encountered additional grief
while removing the motor, I encountered additional grief
this can't be good
this can't be good
well at least the inner O-ring seat is still intact.

Hmmmm...
well at least the inner O-ring seat is still intact. Hmmmm...
this could work, mill off flush w/ O-ring seat & make a new snout
Leave some clearance around the cast OD and seat the new piece on the milled surface.
Align with an old intact kick start gear shaft while clamping to case, then weld 360 degrees
maybe
this could work, mill off flush w/ O-ring seat & make a new snout Leave some clearance around the cast OD and seat the new piece on the milled surface. Align with an old intact kick start gear shaft while clamping to case, then weld 360 degrees maybe
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8693
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8693
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
Play dough... I think the recipe should be ok even in Greece!
http://www.bestrecipes.com.au/recipe/play-dough-L926.html

I wonder if instead of what you're showing you could instead mill it level, then glue an oil seal there, open side out. The lip of the seal should have enough give in it to allow some lateral movement of the shaft. There's no pressure on the oil so should work fine.
Or does the guy worry about what it would look like?
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Well Ginch, that might work, and I am one who will sometimes do a reasonable bodge repair, but only for myself. Also this wasn't really all that much more work than what you are suggesting.

It's looking good so far, had all the machine work done at a little local one man shop for 30 euro and the welding done at another one man shop for 15 euro. Both guys were wizards, especially the guy who did the argon welding. He was welding some damage on a smallie motor when I picked up my parts and told me he'd done lots of Vespa motor repairs, even building up trashed rotary pads for remachining.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
formal subcontractor drawing submitted


So, not too bad, my 'customer' pays all my out-of-pocket and I now have two good new resources at the cost of a little running around on my scooter. The motor is now assembled & fires right up in the stand with the kick starter working perfectly several times so far. Tomorrow I put it back in the scoot so I can collect my new air compressor.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
case milled off flush to o-ring surface and custom snout with o-ring channel

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
in place with spare kick shaft in place to provide perfect alignment for welding snout 360 degrees at base

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
fully assembled to check fits prior to welding, the big washers are to protect the bearings

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
360 degrees of excellent non-ugly welding
If you have a sharp eye, you'll notice I used an older kick start gear I had on hand and so I had to use the older style lever.
If you have a sharp eye, you'll notice I used an older kick start gear I had on hand and so I had to use the older style lever.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8693
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8693
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
That looks great... and very cheap too. Well done Mr V, I tips me 'at to yer.
@vader19 avatar
UTC

Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
 
Mr. Clean
@vader19 avatar
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
UTC quote
Looks great Terry!
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
I want to live near you, Terry.
@quasi-moto avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5391
Location: Puyallup, WA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@quasi-moto avatar
SawStop
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5391
Location: Puyallup, WA
UTC quote
I love this place! Great save, Terry!
OP
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9620
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Thanks a million for the kind words, they really are what keeps me going sometimes. Also the brand new compressor and bonus set of accessories being delivered tomorrow. No more running down 2 blocks to the tire shop to blow the small crud out of random motor and carb parts for me!

My 'customer' was pretty happy and fortunately the scoot started right up when he arrived today to pick it up. The motor had recently had major work, at least a new piston and a rebored cylinder that I could see . What is hard to understand though, is HOW COULD ANYBODY REBUILD A MOTOR AND NOT CLEAN IT? Yuck......

Oh well, he's happy and driving it back home(no trailer this time) I'm happy and as long as I don't get an emergency phone call in the next hour, I'll stay happy
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
Terry- My first reaction was the easily recognized (at least by some of us) beeswax candles. Definitely a pudent choice, considering that they are hand made by monks and nuns, and thus well blessed to protect the engine.

Since you are in the neighborhood, why not pop over to Paros for a coffee?

Or, we will be overnighting in Athens, near the airport, Saturday, enroute home from our travels. PM me if you can come out for a coffee.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0167s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0103s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]